Aligning Timing Marks

[Logue]

Alright i'm putting on my timing belt on the 6 bolt engine on the stand right now.

I have put the belt on and taken it off about 10 times now trying to figure this out.

The dowel are are 12o'clock. The 2 inner cam marks are alined at 3&9o'clock. But what about the outer marks on the cams when i lay a ruler accross one is always about 1/2-1 tooth off.

Did i do something wrong?

Even did what vfaq said and turned the exhaust cam a little clockwise put the belt on tensioned it and the one outer mark still doesn't line up.

Like i said the inner marks at 3 and 9 o'clock do align perfectly though.

Should that one mark be off?

Thanks,

JJ

 

[DSMJim]

Pfft. you guys and your tools...

Necessity is the mother of invention...

 

[evolvingGS-t]

I did something very similar to what wiseman Jim shows in the picture. It actually worked on the first try.

 

[hippy]

Ok we did another one last night (mine) and we are of my half a tooth! Its on the intake cam gear that we are off all other marks are good. Its like if you go one way ur of a half a tooth and go the other way ur off a half a tooth. To be dead on the belt tooth is in between the tooth we need and there is nothing u can do. This must be why people buy cam gears so they can adjust it a half a tooth to make up the difference right? Anyways we tried for a while and still same results. Using a mitsu timing belt as well

 

[92awddsm]

Ok we did another one last night (mine) and we are of my half a tooth! Its on the intake cam gear that we are off all other marks are good. Its like if you go one way ur of a half a tooth and go the other way ur off a half a tooth. To be dead on the belt tooth is in between the tooth we need and there is nothing u can do. This must be why people buy cam gears so they can adjust it a half a tooth to make up the difference right? Anyways we tried for a while and still same results. Using a mitsu timing belt as well

I had the same problem before and found that it was really off one tooth on the crank gear. After it was corrected, that got the cam gears right where they needed to be.

 

[andrewjscott]

I've been trying to align my the timing marks on the cam gears and this is the closest I can get. Let me know if I'm doing something wrong, and how to correct it.

 

[Lunch_Box]

Rotate your exhaust cam, by your hand or a wrench, clockwise half a tooth.

 

[andrewjscott]

tried that and the cam just wants to spring back, and if i rotate it 1/2 a tooth, i can't get the belt to tension properly, its either very loose, or i can't get it on.

 

[Justins99GSX]

sounds like you skipped timing a little bit....

 

[andrewjscott]

All I did was i had to take off the cam gears to replace the oil seals got a new timing belt and valve grind....

 

[99GSX Swede]

Are you in process of putting a new timing belt on? If so you need to rotate the Exhaust cam CW as stated earlier 1/2 tooth. You might actually want to rotate it a full tooth because it will rotate back some as you tension the belt. Once you have the marks lined up slip the belt on and clamp it in place with some clips. This will help keep it tight and keep the gears from rotating. This is easier with done with a helper.

 

[Syndicate13]

Edit: You'll need to completely remove the belt and the tensioner and compress it in a vice to set the tension properly. You'll also need to set the timing marks on the crank and oil pump. http://vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html go there and follow the directions to the T.

Set the intake cam straight and then rotate the exhaust cam clockwise so that the mark is slightly under the intake mark, so that the actual tooth is pointing at another tooth and not the groove. Then slip the belt on, when tension is applied it should pull the exhaust cam into place. This is the way that has always got'r'dun on the first try in my car. Make sure you let the motor sit long enough for the plunger to extend fully after setting the tension and rotate it by hand one more time to make sure the marks are perfect, if they aren't don't be afraid to take it apart and do it again. It's not something you wanna mess up.

 

[andrewjscott]

thanks for the help, i'm letting it go for the rest of the night and i'll try it all tomarrow. Motor is out of the car (im doing a full rebuild) so letting the auto tensionor fully expand isn't going to be a problem. All the other timing marks are set. I actually followed those instuctions, but couldn't get the cam gears to align correctly. I'll try putting the exhaust a 1/2 a tooth below and letting the belt pull the gear back. I think that was the problem is I had it aligned and as I tensioned it the marks became unaligned.

 

[Lunch_Box]

When you get it aligned and put the belt on, hold it in place with one hand and with the other get a clip and slide it over the cam gear and belt to hold everything in place. Look through your manual to see what the clips looks like as I can't remember there name.

 

[leet]

When you get it aligned and put the belt on, hold it in place with one hand and with the other get a clip and slide it over the cam gear and belt to hold everything in place. Look through your manual to see what the clips looks like as I can't remember there name.

I call them Alligator Clips, you use them in the office to loosely hold a good amount of paper together. They have the black center with little silver wings coming off the side. They work superbly.

 

[steve]

Once you get the belt on the cams correctly and clipped down then run the belt to the oil pump and crank as tightly as you can. You might need to turn them a bit to help tension the belt on that side to make sure those marks line up correctly. Then you can take the rest of the slack up with the tensioner. If you don't get the belt tight as your going from the cams past the idler pulley to the oil pump and crank you can wind up a tooth off at the crank and you have to hold the belt away from the crank sprocket to disengage the teeth and move it to get it lined up.

It wasn't a problem when I did the 46G3 but getting everything right on the 6G72 from the Stealth with 4 cams and a water pump between the banks led to some interesting cussing while trying to get the tension correct at the water pump pulley so it wasn't off a tooth between the two cylinder banks.

Steve

 

[Lunch_Box]

I call them Alligator Clips, you use them in the office to loosely hold a good amount of paper together. They have the black center with little silver wings coming off the side. They work superbly.

That's what I thought they were called but I didn't want to just start throwing out names. They do indeed work great.

 

[Defiant]

I call them Alligator Clips, you use them in the office to loosely hold a good amount of paper together. They have the black center with little silver wings coming off the side. They work superbly.

Aligator clips are for electrics, or roach holders. The clips you want for timing belt jobs are binder clips. Esterbrook makes the Ball Clip, but I'll be damned if I can find a size that's really all that comfortable. But they do cut back much on the clacking, even if those nearby can hardly tell over the screaming.

 

[leet]

Heh, THAT's where the name came from

Yes, Binder Clips. That's them.

 

[andrewjscott]

after noumerous times trying to get it on with all timing marks lined up, this is the closest I can get.

 

[steve]

It doesn't look right. It might be the angle your taking a picture from.
I can't see the crank timing mark at all and the intake cam looks one tooth advanced.

Can you take a picture from directly in front of the cams parallel with the mating surface between the head and rocker cover and another with the crank backing plate cleaned off.

Assuming that's a 90-92 6 bolt block the crank mark should look like this:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

It doesn't look like the oil pump is right either. Again off a tooth advanced.

Steve

 

[Defiant]

^ ^ ^ Agreed. The cams look good, the oil pump is one off. You do know about making sure the oil pump's balance shaft is in-phase, right? Since you're out of the car, using the plug on the skirt of the block and a phillips screwdriver is the best way to check.

 

[AW4G63]

This really is off.

Tear it down and start over. It's pain staking but once you do it once all the other times will be a breeze.


REMEMBER to Rotate the crank pulley once you're all done about 8 times I think or untill ALL timing marks line up. You'll know when it's right, you won't have any doubts.

 

[boostedinaz]

This is the easiest way for me and I can get a T belt on a car and lined up in a few minutes, but it does take two people.

First I get the crank pulley and oil pump pulley lined up and I put the belt on them. I also have a friend hold those not only on the pulley but in time.

I then take the belt and pull it up over the intake cam and pull it tight. I make sure that those three line up first.

Get a 17mm wrench and put it on the intake cam and put it to were you want it then drop the belt over it, but keep it tight against the other cam gear. This should get in right on or very close.

Basically you are just going one by one and tightening between each pulley by hand. This will keep it from being off between each one. Most of the time you will just have to move a cam one tooth or so if it didn't work perfect. It is a lot easier than trying to mess with all of them at once.

 

[95TalonTsiAWDam]

Not to hijack the thread, but I am in the same boat. I am trying to get my timing belt installed on my 6-bolt going in my 2G. Engine is still out of car and 2G mounts are on. My biggest problem is setting the tensioner since I cannot use a "tensioner tool" as described in the Vfaq (2G bracket, 1G tensioner arm). Any helpful hints as to how to set that? I am going to compress it in a vice and pin it, then stick it on, but I am afraid that it is going to spring outa spec once installed and it is unpinned since I have no way to put tension on it.
Any ideas from the wisemen on this one? By the way very helpful info for when I finally get this part of the prob solved.

Thanks,
MM

 

[95TalonTsiAWDam]

Sorry for the Double post...bad wireless connection.
Posting back to say I solve the problem myself ....It took a C-clamp (clamping ontop of the arm and under the base of the cylinder) and a friend to help hold it tight against the motor(otherwise it pops off). Cranked the motor over 6 times and it checked out to within spec. Now I'm waiting the 15-20min to recheck it.

Ltr,
MM