Air Leaking from BOV and air intake?

[Eclipse37]

Ok guys I went to lowes and got the shit to do a boost leak test, put it all together slapped it on the inlet side of the turbo and a few seconds of pushing air into the system I can hear air from the air intake and also from the hose going from the BOV to the air intake. Here are a few questions.

1. Am I supposed to block the hoses to the air intake so the air wont leak?
2. Is that normal?
3. Is air supposed to leak from the hose from the BOV to the air intake?
4. If not how do I fix this?
5. is the BOV broken?
6. will the 1G or aftermarket BOV work without an inter cooler?

Also it is the stock 2G BOV.

OH also the 1995 eclipse are OBD2 right? I mean under the hood it says OBD2 certified. cause I just went to auto zone today and got a code reader and it's saying the chord isn't connected so it can't read. But I know it should work cause I have the car read before at auto zone but for some reason it's not wanting to connect now :/ any suggestions on this?

 

[Silver 95 GST]

Wow.

First get rid of the stock 2g bov. They are crap. Get a 1g and continue boost leak test. When you do a BLT there should be no leaks whatsoever, so fix them.

the bov has nothing to do with an intercooler. That would be weird if you didn't have an ic though because your car is supposed ot have one.

Good luck

 

[Eclipse37]

Wow.

First get rid of the stock 2g bov. They are crap. Get a 1g and continue boost leak test. When you do a BLT there should be no leaks whatsoever, so fix them.

the bov has nothing to do with an intercooler. That would be weird if you didn't have an ic though because your car is supposed ot have one.

Good luck

Ok if I get a greddy BOV or stock 1G BOV is it going to go right on where the old 2G one was or am I going to need parts to make it work.

 

[kenamond]

Ok guys I went to lowes and got the shit to do a boost leak test, put it all together slapped it on the inlet side of the turbo and a few seconds of pushing air into the system I can hear air from the air intake and also from the hose going from the BOV to the air intake. Here are a few questions.

1. Am I supposed to block the hoses to the air intake so the air wont leak?
2. Is that normal?
3. Is air supposed to leak from the hose from the BOV to the air intake?
4. If not how do I fix this?
5. is the BOV broken?
6. will the 1G or aftermarket BOV work without an inter cooler?

Also it is the stock 2G BOV.

OH also the 1995 eclipse are OBD2 right? I mean under the hood it says OBD2 certified. cause I just went to auto zone today and got a code reader and it's saying the chord isn't connected so it can't read. But I know it should work cause I have the car read before at auto zone but for some reason it's not wanting to connect now :/ any suggestions on this?

The stock 2g BOV leaks at around 13psi. If you apply more pressure than that, it will pop open and dump air back to the intake pipe. They sell 1g-2g adapters for about $30, and then you can get a 1g bov for $25 used. If you plan on upgrading the UICP, you might just do that now, because whatever you get will most likely have a 1g or greddy flange on it (usually, you decide which flange you want on the UICP). So if you get the UICP, the $30 adapter would be useless. If you're going to keep the stock UICP, get the adapter and 1g BOV.

You mention "hearing air at the intake" in addition to the BOV leak. I want to be clear what you're talking about. The part that clamps to the turbo intake is the "intake pipe". Before it is the MAS, and before that is the air filter. After the turbo compressor is the lower intercooler pipe (LICP), then the intercooler (IC), then the upper intercooler pipe (UICP) with the BOV connected to it, then the S-pipe (also part of the UICP), then the throttle body elbow, then the throttle body (TB), then the intake manifold (IM), then the head of the motor. All of those components are part of the air intake system. If the leak you mentioned is coming from the intake pipe, that's probably the same problem as the BOV recirculation or dump tube (goes from the BOV to the intake pipe).

Normally, I'd recommend doing a boost leak test (BLT) at 20psi, but with a stock 2g BOV, that's impossible. Instead, I'd see how high you can go before the BOV pops open. If you can apply 12psi without the BOV leaking, then you can test for other leaks in the rest of the intake system. If the BOV leaks no matter what, you can still test other components, but not all of them: Disconnect the S-pipe from the TB elbow and do the BLT at the TB elbow. This will test for leaks between the TB elbow and combustion chambers. My guess is that you'll discover leaks at the BISS, PCV valve, and injector insulators/seals. In the meantime, you can decide how you want to go about upgrading the 2g BOV.

Keep in mind that you need some sort of pressure gauge to monitor how much pressure you're applying to the system during the BLT. Most people use their *aftermarket* boost gauge (the stock one won't work for this), but some folks have a pressure gauge built onto their boost tester. Either way, you don't want to put too much pressure, or you can pop seals that you don't want to pop. I have my 6-year-old daughter sit in the driver's seat and tell me when the boost gauge reaches 20psi. Then she counts down the pressure as it drops so that I know how well the system is holding pressure.

Also, you need to test on a warmed-up motor. A cold motor's piston rings will not be expanded, and this will look like a boost leak. Same thing goes if you have low compression for whatever reason.

Then you also should disconnect the oil fill cap. If you have a massive leak into the crank case (leaking PCV valve, intake valve stem seals, worn rings, or cold motor), you can pressurize the crankcase which isn't recommended. If you take the oil fill cap off, the air has an escape route.

If you've never changed your PCV with an OEM unit, it's probably leaking. Unscrew it from the valve cover (VC) but leave the hose on it. As you do the BLT, check that no air is coming throug the bronze tube at the end of the PCV valve. If there is, replace it with an $8 unit from your local Mitsu dealer; aftermarket ones won't work (Autozone, Carquest, etc.).

Good luck!!

 

[Eclipse37]

Yea I can't pressurize the system cause as soon as I start to put air into the system all the air leaks from the air intake that supposed to be connected into the inlet side of the turbo. and the S turbo that's coming off the BOV.

 

[kenamond]

Yea I can't pressurize the system cause as soon as I start to put air into the system all the air leaks from the air intake that supposed to be connected into the inlet side of the turbo. and the S turbo that's coming off the BOV.

Then decide if you want to upgrade the UICP/BOV together or keep the stock UICP and get the adapter and BOV. If you just want a stock performance car, you might also just replace the 2g BOV, but most of us would certainly recommend the 1g BOV.

If you look at the stock UICP, it has a major kink in it where it has to squeeze between the bodywork and the stock air filter box. It's a major restriction to airflow. If you still have the stock filter and box, then aftermarket UICPs won't fit without hacking away to the filter box to make clearance.

So most of us upgrade the air filter, too (K&N FIPK or similar). But then you have cold-air-intake issues to deal with (not a big deal, but it's there, and your intake temps will go up without an air dam or something to get air to the filter that's not hot, engine bay air). The stock airbox gets its cool air via a small snorkel that connects the box to the passenger-side fender.

The other thing to think about is that if you intend to get a FMIC with short-route piping, you'd have different pipes than the UICPs that work with the stock side-mount IC. So the full-blown "good" solution would be FMIC+short-route pipes, 1g BOV (or greddy or whatever), but that costs a buttload more than an adapter and used 1g BOV.

So the easiest thing to do is just get a working 2g BOV. Next easiest is a 2g-to-1g BOV adapter and a 1g BOV. Next is a 1g-BOV-flanged UICP and either hacked stock airbox or aftermarket filter. Next is FMIC and short-route pipes and upgraded BOV. Each option gets more expensive and more time-consuming to install, but they get better in terms of power. As the saying goes, you gotta pay to play.

 

[Eclipse37]

I have an aftermarket air filter and I have a plastic/ kinda rubber air intake that conencts to the turbo Im not sure if that's the stock one or not. Also as you probably already know I just have the stock T-25 turbo so is the FMIC going to give me any performance boost's? Money really isn't an issue atm I just got tax money back and I start work agin march 23rd so I will have lots of cash flow. My goal is like 320-350HP so I need to get a FMIC some time anyway. U have any links for good FMIC? Or would any Ebay FMIC cut it?



Also I never got any word on why the CPU reader I bought isn't wanting to connect to the CPU?

 

[kenamond]

I have an aftermarket air filter and I have a plastic/ kinda rubber air intake that conencts to the turbo Im not sure if that's the stock one or not. Also as you probably already know I just have the stock T-25 turbo so is the FMIC going to give me any performance boost's? Money really isn't an issue atm I just got tax money back and I start work agin march 23rd so I will have lots of cash flow. My goal is like 320-350HP so I need to get a FMIC some time anyway. U have any links for good FMIC? Or would any Ebay FMIC cut it?



Also I never got any word on why the CPU reader I bought isn't wanting to connect to the CPU?

If part of the intake pipe looks like an accordion, that's probably the stock one.

A T25 and FMIC will be an improvement. When you turn up the boost on a T25, the air spat out of the compressor will be hotter than a bigger turbo at the same boost. The FMIC will let you get away with that much more so than the stock SMIC. But you can only push the T25 so far before it grenades. So yes, a FMIC will help, even with a T25.

I'd go look at the staged mods section of this site for guidance on the order of upgrades. The most important thing is to have a plan and a goal. Most of your decisions about part A will depend on part B. Like the UICP issue: if you stick with a side-mount IC or go with long-route FMIC piping, the UICP will be completely different than if you go with FMIC and short-route piping. Also, if you upgrade the turbo, the piping between the compressor outlet and the FMIC will be different (T25/T28/FP Big28 compressor housings are the same connections, but a B16g is different).

I don't have an FMIC yet. When I go there, I'll probably make my own end tanks and buy a good core...that's how I roll...slow, careful, and thoughtful. There are oodles of threads about ebay FMIC. I suggest you spend time doing your homework until you're sort of an expert on the options (I don't know much more about good DSM FMIC brands than you).

So I'd sit down and pick what all you want to do to your car based on the staged upgrades page. Then pick the parts that fit your goals, then add up the $$$ and see what it looks like. But for each part, make sure you know all of the "extras" that might have to go along with them...like b16g install kits...or fittings for an AFPR, etc.

At the same time, you have a bad BOV and might just want to spent $70 today and order an adapter and 1g BOV. Then you can fix the boost leaks and plan on the major upgrades over the next couple of weeks.

 

[Eclipse37]

Yea im planning on a Big T28 turbo so ima look into some prices on that and the FMIC. Also I looked arround and couldn't find anything what all do I need to upgrade for a big T28 Im figuring fuel injectors not sure what size fuel pump , FMIC

 

[kenamond]

Yea im planning on a Big T28 turbo so ima look into some prices on that and the FMIC. Also I looked arround and couldn't find anything what all do I need to upgrade for a big T28 Im figuring fuel injectors not sure what size fuel pump , FMIC

You need to do your homework.

The FP B28 is truly bolt-on. It will work with everything else that comes on a stock 2g turbo car.

There will be a lot of decisions you have to make for the FMIC. The piping will have to match the turbo compressor configuration (the T25/T28s fire to the passenger side, but b16gs fire down at an angle. So the FMIC pipes have to match that aspect of the turbo.

If you go with short-route piping, it doesn't send the pipes over to where the stock side-mount IC is right now. Long-route piping goes over there and connects to the stock UICP location, but longer pipes are worse than shorter pipes. So that decision changes whether you can re-use your UICP and S-pipe.

Also, you have to do some hacking at the front of the car for an FMIC. And you have to fabricate brackets to hold the FMIC. That's not too bad (hack the bumper support and bumper cover), but it's something you have to be prepared to do.

If you want to upgrade your fuel system, there are parts that must be installed together. If you want a bigger fuel pump, you also probably need an AFPR and fuel pressure gauge. The bigger pumps will overrun the stock FPR at low load/rpm making the car run rich. The AFPR can handle the increased fuel flow from the pump and is adjustable (that's why you need the gauge).

After you've done that, you can consider larger injectors, but that also means you need something to change how much fuel the ECU delivers. You can't just put on bigger injectors; the ECU doesn't know you did that and will act like smaller injectors are still there making you run way too rich. If you only increase the injectors to a certain size, you can probably get away with SAFC. If you want more control, DSMlink or AEM-EMS are common options.

But you'd probably want a new exhaust before you go with more fuel. The stock exhaust is restrictive. There, you have the downpipe and cat-back sections. Some just upgrade the downpipe, others upgrade the whole thing from O2 housing to the tailpipes. If you have emissions testing, you'd also need to keep a cat in there somewhere. Some go with high-flow cats. Others use the stock cat and increase the piping into and out of it. Some go with 2.5" exhaust, others go with 3". Some go with aluminized steel (can rust over time), others go with stainless (won't rust, more expensive). Again, more decisions, different price tags, different power potential.

Like I said, you gotta do some homework to know what you're getting into. Unless you've got $4000 laying around, you're not going to be able to do it all. If that's the case, you have to figure out what order you can do all of this in given the funding situation and the fact that certain parts have to go on together and that some part models affect what other parts will work with them.

This site is a great source of information. I'd spend a few evenings reading through tech articles, threads, the VFAQ, etc. You'll quickly learn a lot about what you're trying to do, how to do it, what to watch out for, etc.

 

[Eclipse37]

Well for right now im going to go for the quick fix and get a 1G BOV and the flange. Ima set money back and make a plan and a list of everything I need / want. Im not looking to make a 600+ HP beast. My goal is only 320-350 HP not interested in anything more then that. But like I said as of right now ima do the quick fix, fix all boost leaks and when I know everything I wana buy and when I have all the money in hand i'll get it do a rebuild and throw everything on it Im pretty sure the T28 will get me to the HP im wanting.

This is whats on the need to get list so far.
T28 Garret Turbo -$900
Dejon air intake- $210
1G BOV-$25-$50
FMIC-$400-$500
550 injectors-$350-$400
Turbo Timer-$120-$250
Boost controller-$300-$400

 

[RadDsm]

Where are you buying a boost controller for $400? Dont get a EBC, just get a Hallman MBC they are around $100

 

[Eclipse37]

Also guys I replaced the CPS and now the car seems to be louder and the car is idiling at really low RRMS and it goes up and down it if I hit the throttle the rpms go up and I let off the gas and they drop to like 200 or 100 rpms like its about to shut off then jump back up. I know the knock sensor is out I already order a new one and im picking it up on tuesdays. U guys have any clue what could be causing this? Also CPS is Cam Position Sensor. I replaced the Crank Position sensor not to long ago.

 

[kenamond]

Well for right now im going to go for the quick fix and get a 1G BOV and the flange. Ima set money back and make a plan and a list of everything I need / want. Im not looking to make a 600+ HP beast. My goal is only 320-350 HP not interested in anything more then that. But like I said as of right now ima do the quick fix, fix all boost leaks and when I know everything I wana buy and when I have all the money in hand i'll get it do a rebuild and throw everything on it Im pretty sure the T28 will get me to the HP im wanting.

This is whats on the need to get list so far.
T28 Garret Turbo -$900
Dejon air intake- $210
1G BOV-$25-$50
FMIC-$400-$500
550 injectors-$350-$400
Turbo Timer-$120-$250
Boost controller-$300-$400

I assume you mean Forced Performance's FP Big 28. It'll cost about $900 after porting, gaskets, studs, nuts, bolts are all in the mix. You might also consider a big 16g. The turbo alone is much cheaper, but then you have to buy install kits (it's not true bolt on) and porting which brings the price up close to the FPB28. Porting isn't essential, but it may limit you when you're reaching for 350hp. The b16g may also creep (do a search) if you're running below 20psi boost.

The Dejon intake pipe is nice, but it doesn't really add a lot of power. If you have limited funds, I'd wait on that particular part. I'd eventually upgrade the intake pipe, but you could get more bang for the buck on other parts in the first pass...especially at $200.

The turbo timer is another glitzy gadget that you might not need yet. If you run your turbo hard and shut the car off, the hotside will cook the oil inside the center section of the turbo, and this leaves carbon deposits (coke) on the bearings that shortens the life of the turbo. A turbo timer just keeps the motor running for a few minutes after you turn the key off. You can manually do the same thing...take it easy for the last minute or two of each trip. If you run it hard all the way home or to work, let the car idle for a minute before you shut down. Anyway, it's your money, but it could free up $150 for other parts.

$300-$400 for a boost controller?! Do you mean something else? A "good enough" MBC will cost $50. My Joe-P IL unit works perfectly and cost $50. There are many others that are just as good and even cheaper, but there are also others that are bad and more expensive. Find one with a good reputation and low cost and buy it. You'll set the boost as high as you can safely run, and you won't touch it again...trust me...you won't need a dual boost controller or an electronic controller.

I'm not positive, but I don't think that 550 injectors will get you to 350hp. Stock is 210hp on 450cc/min injectors at 13psi boost. Adding 25% more fuel will only get you roughly 25% more power (+50hp) which falls well short of your goals. Like I said, I'm not positive, and my reasoning is more crude than reality - FMIC will certainly make more power on the same fuel - but I don't think you'd be able to easily squeeze that much more out of the car. I'd look around the site and see if anyone is getting 350hp on 660s. That's what I think you'd need (or maybe even larger) to get 350hp.

As I said already, if you change the injectors, you need SAFC or DSMlink (or AEM-EMS if you want to go for the gusto). SAFC is limited in how big of an injector it can effectively compensate for. The number I'm recalling is 660 injectors, but a search would tell you more. SAFC is easier to "install" but has issues that you'd have to be willing to accept. DSMlink has no major limitations and is more expensive, but you could throw 1200cc/min injectors in if you wanted to, and you wouldn't ever have to increase them. AEM-EMS is the true "professional" option, but it's much more complicated (to install and to set up) and more expensive, but it's arguably the best option.

Also missing from your list is a bigger fuel pump and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator (AFPR) and a fuel pressure gauge (so you can adjust the base fuel pressure of the AFPR). And you'll want to rewire the bigger fuel pump (cheap and pretty easy to do...there's a great step-by-step, illustrated how-to out there for 2gs).

And then there's the exhaust. I don't know how much stock exhaust will hold you back, but that's one of the early mods on the list. The SSAutochrome 3" SS turboback is a great deal if you don't mind the fart can muffler. I love mine, but I also put custom muffler and twin tips on it. Make sure you understand your emissions laws here, though.

One thing I didn't mention is porting your exhaust manifold and turbine housing. Those go hand-in-hand. Forced performance offers a porting option, but if you get that, you need to also match the manifold to that port job. Ported 2g manis are sufficient and are cheap...or you could do it your self if you're that kinda guy.

Another option is upgrading to a wideband O2 sensor. The stock narrowband O2 isn't adequate when you're trying to tune WOT conditions (where you'll be making that 350hp). You can take your car to a shop and have it tuned...they'll provide the wideband temporarily for tuning, so that's an option. But if you want to do this yourself, a WBO2 would help a LOT.

The big deal with going past 400hp is the internals of the engine and a good tune. It's not too hard to upgrade all of the externals (what you're talkiing about) such that you *could* go past 400hp, but you'd probably blow a head gasket first or be limited by flow into the combustion chambers (valves, cams, head porting).

 

[kenamond]

Also guys I replaced the CPS and now the car seems to be louder and the car is idiling at really low RRMS and it goes up and down it if I hit the throttle the rpms go up and I let off the gas and they drop to like 200 or 100 rpms like its about to shut off then jump back up. I know the knock sensor is out I already order a new one and im picking it up on tuesdays. U guys have any clue what could be causing this? Also CPS is Cam Position Sensor. I replaced the Crank Position sensor not to long ago.

As I understand it, on '95 2gt cars, both of those sensors are hidden under the intake cam sproket. If that's so, did you take the t-belt off to change them? If so, you may have messed up your cam timing a tooth. If the exhaust cam is off a tooth, that might make the car sound louder (guessing).

Also, if you disconnected the battery when you changed the sensors (as you should have ), then the ECU would be reset. The idle-speed-controller (ISC) would have to recalibrate itself to find out where it has to be in order to keep idle at 750rpm. It does this automatically, but it takes time for the ECU to relearn things.

Or maybe you forgot to plug something back in?

That's all I can think of.

 

[Eclipse37]

As I understand it, on '95 2gt cars, both of those sensors are hidden under the intake cam sproket. If that's so, did you take the t-belt off to change them? If so, you may have messed up your cam timing a tooth. If the exhaust cam is off a tooth, that might make the car sound louder (guessing).

Also, if you disconnected the battery when you changed the sensors (as you should have ), then the ECU would be reset. The idle-speed-controller (ISC) would have to recalibrate itself to find out where it has to be in order to keep idle at 750rpm. It does this automatically, but it takes time for the ECU to relearn things.

Or maybe you forgot to plug something back in?

That's all I can think of.

Yea I had battery cables off and all the timing marks looked great that's why im kinda stumped on this :/

 

[kenamond]

Yea I had battery cables off and all the timing marks looked great that's why im kinda stumped on this :/

It might take some time for the ECU to re-learn the fuel trims and other adjustments. I read somewhere that it takes two days of driving it around. If all seems well, I'd drive it gently for a couple of days and see if the idle improves. Or park it and wait for the adapter and 1gBOV to come in the mail.

 

[Eclipse37]

Im put the new knock sensor on tuesday and see what that does for the car. Btw do U know where the knock sensor is located on the 2G eclipse?. If replacing the knock sensor dun help ima park it til I get the new BOV and flange

 

[kenamond]

Im put the new knock sensor on tuesday and see what that does for the car. Btw do U know where the knock sensor is located on the 2G eclipse?. If replacing the knock sensor dun help ima park it til I get the new BOV and flange

It threads into the back of the block, I believe between #2 and #3 cylinders. It's hard to reach, and I've never changed mine. I think there's a tech article for changing it. If you don't have a Haynes manual, go get one. They are very helpful for a lot of stuff on these cars.

 

[GsXtC21]

***ahem, some rep points please for Kenamond...!!!

some good info bro....

 

[Eclipse37]

***ahem, some rep points please for Kenamond...!!!

some good info bro....

I dun know how to give rep points D: tell me how and I deff will hes been GREAT help

 

[Eclipse37]

It threads into the back of the block, I believe between #2 and #3 cylinders. It's hard to reach, and I've never changed mine. I think there's a tech article for changing it. If you don't have a Haynes manual, go get one. They are very helpful for a lot of stuff on these cars.

Kk mate will pick one up when i go get the knock sensor Tuesday. Thanks For all the info ## giving meh great help.

 

[kenamond]

Beware of the Haynes manual, though. They'll tell you to remove the intake manifold, battery, and maybe the starter to change the knock sensor, but there's an easier way. It will tell you the torque specs and where it is, though.

 

[Eclipse37]

Beware of the Haynes manual, though. They'll tell you to remove the intake manifold, battery, and maybe the starter to change the knock sensor, but there's an easier way. It will tell you the torque specs and where it is, though.

Ok great ty much