The Top DSM Community on the Web

For 1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 Owners. Log in to remove most ads.

Please Support Kiggly Racing
Please Support ExtremePSI

Aftermarket ball joints that change the roll center?

This site may earn a commission from merchant
affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Ok so i ran over to my local yard today and took a look at some FWD and AWD eclipses. I also measured the control arm vs the tie rod length as best i could...kind of visual using some wrenches for length guidelines. It looks like our Tie rods and control arms are about the same length...within 1/2 inch (this could change minorly when you do toe changes by turning the tie rod one way or another but they seem to be around 13 inches or so. So i guess i need to retract my previous statement of saying that they are different lengths:ohdamn:

So there are two scenarios here that i am thinking of. AWD vs FWD knuckles. The steering rack is mounted in the same location for both vehicles and the control arm is mounted in the same location as well. It has been stated several times that changin to a FWD knuckle from and AWD knuckle will lower your tie rod point about 1 inch but it will not change the control arm location. For whatever reason the FWD knuckle gives better geometry meaning that the tie rod and control arm seem to have very similar angles through the suspension range (If anybody knows for sure why Mitsubishi did this i am curious). So if you have an AWD knuckle you would want to lower the tie rod mounting point about 1 inch more than the control arm mounting point to keep it in relationship to a FWD knuckle. Or if you switched to a FWD knuckle then you would want to keep everything even...1 inch for inch of equal lowering....make sense:hmm: If i missed anything there let me know.

Ieally lowering only .5 inch wouldnt do much unless your suspension is so stiff that you have little roll movement. For street vehicles like mine i would love to lower 1 inch-1.5 inches equallyacross tied rod and ball joint mounts. That seems like alot but if you loweres 2 inches then your just getting it back to normal.

Keep the info coming guys:thumb:

Ah, I see.

Now, what about this part? Where did it come from? Custom?
You must be logged in to view this image or video.
Ok just to recap on this picture you have and the links that have been provided for purchasing. I get the threaded sleeve and the screw in Howe Balljoint for the control arm but the tie rod end extender is confusing me. I see the Heim Joint AMF-M14 for he tie rod end but the picture you are showing for the piece that extends it down i cant find it in the pictures of Howe Racing ball joints....can you please provide the link for that part. Also have you measured how much you lowered each mounting point for the tie rod and control arm respectively?

Thanks for the help
 
1)It has been stated several times that changin to a FWD knuckle from and AWD knuckle will lower your tie rod point about 1 inch

2) I see the Heim Joint AMF-M14 for he tie rod end but the picture you are showing for the piece that extends it down i cant find it in the pictures of Howe Racing ball joints....can you please provide the link for that part.
Thanks for the help

1)The reason I haven't taken the knuckle swap approach is that, according to some things I've read on the subject, they have a slightly longer center to center length also, slowing the steering a bit. I did not want this effect.

2)I cannot speak for all but, usually the tie rod spacers are home/custom made. This is how mine came to be. I do not recall the height of the piece, I made it to achieve as parallel of a relationship between the control arm and tie rod as possible, when the suspension is at rest.
 
UnderRadar since i am not skilled in this area i would be interested , if you are, in purchasing a couple of homemade spacers like the ones you have if you are in the mood for making some (Tie rod extenders). According to your picture they look to be 1 to 1.5 inches long. I get what you say about the center to center distance but i think its only 4mm per side so a total of 8mm center to center which is 1/3 inch. Not Much but a little.

So i posted this earlier in a seperate forum for Steering rack bushings but i have successfully replaced both steering rack bushings on my 1992 Eclipse Power steering rack. SO heres a Freebee on the passengers side because its the easiest and you will notice a DRAMATIC improvement in stering response and less bump steer. You can do this in 30 minutes!

Here goes: Our steering rack is 2 inches in diameter on the pasengers side. Remove the bushing entirely and gently pull the power steering line away from the mount and up towards the top of the subframe. You will need to do this to have some clearance. This is relatively easy as the line moves freely but be gentle and go slow. I used a screwdriver to pry it up and away. Now get the drivers side mount bracket (YES drivers side but not yours, you will need a second one. These are stronger and a perfect fit over the steering rack on the passengers side. The second thing you need is to fill the void where the bushing was behind the rack and the subframe. I used a 2 inch PVC Pipe about 1.5 inches wide by 2 inches in diameter and cut it in half. Does that make sense? The PVC material is very, very strong and i have been running this for over a year now and no cracks or problems. Also in case your wondering our bushing thickness on the back side between the subframe and steering rack is about 1/16 inch so when you get your PVC pipe from Home depot just bring your bushing with you so you can compare. Cut the PVC pipe in half and now you will have a semi circle PVC which goes behind the steering rack. Then install the Bracket from drivers side...PERFECT FIT by the way. Install the bolts and tighten. Let me know what you think guys! Sorry it was so long but wanted to be clear!

I forget how long the spacer is (as seen in the last pic) but it did drop the pivot 7/8" over stock... the same as the +0.5" Howe ball joint.

I'm going to an autocross Sunday, I'll report back as to whether it all works or not. =o]

Edit: Holy crap! I improved a lot and got my first ever trophy (third place of thirteen). I'm usually 5-6 seconds behind the Evo that always wins street mod in my area...this time I was behind 1.7sec.

Final Results, #7 - Event#7 - Invalid DateTime

This setup really does make the car much more predictable.
So i just wanted to verify when you purchased the screw in ball joint did you just get the standard or the oversized Howe ball joint? I see that you had a 7/8 inch drop partially do to the way the ball joint screwed in to the control arm. Trying to copy everything and just wanted to make sure i make no mistakes when ordering.
 
My buddy has an is300 and there is a guy on their forum who makes all this stuff for their cars.

Fig Engineering

Might check out his stuff or contact him.

swade
 
Well, those are pretty and all OMG , and i would love to have them, but $2,000 a pop is a little more than i would like to spend on a bare knuckle WTF

I agree, I'll not be popping for them in this lifetime either. Just posted for the eye candy factor and to demonstrate how other platforms are getting these things done.

Also, it has come to my attention that the updated link in my post #56, listed the balljoint sleeve as being for a K727. We actually need the sleeve for the K772 balljoint. http://www.colemanracing.com/store/shopexd.asp?id=7831.
 
Last edited:
So there is seriously no extended balljoints on the market for DSMs? These cars need them more than most others! I can't believe a company hasn't capitalize on this niche yet. Time to start petitioning! LOL

Well, those are pretty and all OMG , and i would love to have them, but $2,000 a pop is a little more than i would like to spend on a bare knuckle WTF

There has to be a cheaper way to make those. A friend of mine is getting his hands on a CNC machine shortly, I'm going to find out if we could make something like that for less money.
 
So there is seriously no extended balljoints on the market for DSMs? These cars need them more than most others! I can't believe a company hasn't capitalize on this niche yet. Time to start petitioning! LOL

Nice sarcasm.
 
Also, it has come to my attention that the updated link in my post #56, listed the balljoint sleeve as being for a K727. We actually need the sleeve for the K772 balljoint. Racing and Car Products - Coleman Racing - Ball Joint Sleeve, Weld-On, K772 - K719.


I was going to mention something about this, but everyone continued to say K727. The K727's are HUGE and they're the Chrysler style LOWER screw in ball joint. For this we want the K772 Chrysler style UPPER screw in ball joint, prefferably with the extended ball joint stud. Same goes for the ball joint sleeve weld-on adapter: the K727 will not fit the K772 ball joint so you need the correct corresponding weld on sleeve. (I'm sure most know this but for those that don't...)

K772 Chrysler Style UPPER Ball Joint (HOW 22320S - $66.90) (First ball joint on the page)

Ball Joint Sleeves Weld-On Adapters (Flanged - Part No. TS200 - $7.75)
(Non Flanged - Part No. TS201 - $7.75
(About 2/3 down the page)

I just completed the install of the K772's witht the .5" extended stud on my Evo1 lower control arms, which are almost identical to the 1g lca's. I used the flanged weld-on adapter as well which made the install/welding that much easier and prettier. I would reccomend it to anyone who will be attempting this.

Pete
 
Last edited:
so the weld in adapter just slotted into the Evo LCA's and then you welded around it? If you have any pictures that would be good!
 
Well, there was a little bit of cutting involved. The original ball joint hole is too small for the sleeve so I cut it in half and opened it up slightly (forming a "C" shape on the end of the lca) until the flanged sleeve fit in snug. Then I welded the flanged sleeve on and added two pieces of 1/8" steel for extra support/rigidity.

I took some pics before I did any cutting because I'm trying to document the Evo1 build. Unfortunately, my husky sniped my camera off the counter while I was out and gave it a nice little tune up...I will be getting a new camera next week.

Also, Carl's Racing Products has the extended studs on their shelf or can get it quick. They did not charge me extra for the extended studs and just installed them in place of the originals. Great guys, very informative, and extremely helpful.


Pete
 
Last edited:
thanks for the info i will be considering this in my list of mods for next year as my suspension is front sway bar bushings and megan rear toe rods away from being complete.
 
thanks for the info i will be considering this in my list of mods for next year as my suspension is front sway bar bushings and megan rear toe rods away from being complete.

It's never complete....
 
Well Guys

I did this mod to my car, I am running into a problem now with my upper camber plates set back that the extended balljoint sits at such a angle its almost toushing the housing and its maxed out camber angle.

Anybody else having this problem?

Is that balljoint in an un-modified control arm? Wherever did you find this mythical creature?
 
i had evo 8 front oem shocks and springs on my 1g laser before I parted it out.

I also would be extremely surprised if the cups from front evo axles couldn't be mounted on the front axles of dsms. So that would lead me to believe it doesn't matter if the splines are the same or not for the evo knuckles. then the only other thing you have is the ball joint (which you guys seem to have figured out) and tie rod, which is easy.

just thought I'd share my 2 cents.

p.s. I know for a fact people have been using whiteline products for galants on 1g dsms. I don't know about the ball joint, but a lot of other stuff lines up, like the rear essentric lower control arm bushing (for camber adjustment) etc. Worth looking into. Whiteline is australian, dsms don't exsist there if I remember correctly. Thats why there is no eclipse in their "CATALOGUE".
 
Is that balljoint in an un-modified control arm? Wherever did you find this mythical creature?

Its Just A example Pic, But yes its a modified factory balljoint to accept the balljoint stud. They are no longer being made by the company I found years ago, So i did end up going with the larger k727 and ream out the spindle to match and cut/modified control arm with the sleeve welded onto it.

But has anyone else had any problems with the camber angle or the ball joint?

I am going to cut and section my control arm and remove half a inch, So the ball joint is more center even with the camber plate laid all the way back.

Ideas? Thoughts?

P.S Underradar92 I pmed you when I first joined the site to talk about suspension setups but you never msg me back :p If your interested now PM me.
 
1) I had evo 8 front oem shocks and springs on my 1g laser before I parted it out.

2) I also would be extremely surprised if the cups from front evo axles couldn't be mounted on the front axles of dsms.

3) p.s. I know for a fact people have been using whiteline products for galants on 1g dsms. I don't know about the ball joint, but a lot of other stuff lines up, like the rear essentric lower control arm bushing (for camber adjustment) etc. Worth looking into. Whiteline is australian, dsms don't exsist there if I remember correctly. Thats why there is no eclipse in their "CATALOGUE".
1) The Evo8/9 strut swap concept seems to be gaining "traction" here, looks like a fine option.

2) By "cups" do you mean the axle stub part of the CV joint? It would be interesting to see if this does indeed fit, I like the idea of using EVO bearings, etc. in the DSM.

3) I've been borrowing from the Whiteline GVR4 parts bin myself, got the 26mm rear antisway bar going in soon. We'all should also be looking into the offset front control arm bushings that add much needed caster.

1) Its Just A example Pic, But yes its a modified factory balljoint to accept the balljoint stud. They are no longer being made by the company I found years ago, 1a) So i did end up going with the larger k727 and ream out the spindle to match and cut/modified control arm with the sleeve welded onto it.

2) But has anyone else had any problems with the camber angle or the ball joint?

3) I am going to cut and section my control arm and remove half a inch, So the ball joint is more center even with the camber plate laid all the way back.

Ideas? Thoughts?

P.S Underradar92 I pmed you when I first joined the site to talk about suspension setups but you never msg me back :p If your interested now PM me.
1) Oh, ok. I remember a place that dealt primarily with the 3s platform had a similar product but at the time, it didn't seem that they would fit.

1a) So now you will have the super overkill balljoints. Watch the clearance on the backside of your rotors, it's tight even with the 772's.

2) My struts don't travel far enough for this to be even remotely a concern. I'll guess it isn't when using the shorter Koni inserts either.

3) I think I'd try re-angling the threaded fitting in the control arm to avoid bind. It won't affect it's operation in any way as long as it doesn't bind at max travel in either direction. Narrowing the front track in this fashion may create other issues like tire clearance when turning or like that.

P.S. Your near empty profile with no posts, looks like that of a spammer or something even more nebulous so I was avoiding you.
 
Yes Supercar engineering is the place in question, But I could also make these with our balljoints but thats very beyond the point.

I also have koni inserts for my car which dont have that much travel like you say, Plus the 400lbs springs I run dont really allow that much travel. I am still going to cut the control arms and remove a quarter inch from each arm, Yes I relize that will remove some track width but I am not too worried about it as there is alot of clearence all around.

For the sleeves themselves I did add 7 degrees camber and 10 degress caster before I welded them in, I thought at first this would be enough but it has proven not to be the case.

As for the sleeve hitting the rotor I dont have this problem as my large brake upgrade is spaced out further then that of a regular brake setup.

underradar92 I would really like to talk to you off the forum as I could spend hours typing out my entire setup on the forum. Check your PM's
 
so what would you guys suggest one do for a forged lower control arm not a welded sheet/plate one

You must be logged in to view this image or video.


You must be logged in to view this image or video.


Can anyone measure the OD of that weld sleeve/flange? might be worth while to get the press in and circlip versions than the screw in?
 
For the sleeves themselves I did add 7 degrees camber and 10 degress caster before I welded them in, I thought at first this would be enough but it has proven not to be the case.


Maybe I'm missing something here, but how does welding the ball joint sleeve in at different angles produce 7 degrees camber and 10 degrees caster? Please ellaborate.

Pete
 
Maybe I'm missing something here, but how does welding the ball joint sleeve in at different angles produce 7 degrees camber and 10 degrees caster? Please ellaborate.

Pete

I wasnt saying I used those angles to add them to the car at the balljoint sleeve. I was more trying to chase all the camber and caster I have added upto with the adjustable upper mounts, So the balljoint wouldnt have a crazy angle on it. But even with those degrees added it wasnt enough to keep the balljoint where i liked it.

So I have taken these arms off my car and tossed them in the junk pile and I am now half done the jig to make tubular control arms. I will keep this updated as I go.
 
I love the updates...I have the K772 sleeves and i am just tring to decide if i do it myself or wait for someone to make control arms with the drop already in place.
 
Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Boosted Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Fuel Injector Clinic Innovation Products Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications MyMitsubishiStore.com RixRacing RockAuto RTM Racing STM Tuned

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Vendor Updates

Latest Classifieds

Back
Top