After porting manifold issue!! please help!!!!!

[koberm]

I decided to port my manifold today and the porting went well. Now a bunch of problems started to happen! First I manage to break off 1 manifold to turbo bolts and stripped another But real problem is when I put everything back on and started the car up, loud tapping started coming from the manifold/turbo and the car won't stay on. I never took the turbo off when taking the manifold off and I checked inside of the turbo inlet, and the fins look fine. Nothing got sucked in,as far as I can see. The only thing disconnected was the manifold.

I've searched this whole forum and no luck!

 

[kenamond]

I'm confused.

You ported the exhaust manifold without disconnecting it from the turbocharger? If you were porting the four exhaust manifold runners at the head end, you probably have alot of debris that got blown into your turbine and potentially jammed behind the wheel. I find it hard to believe that you'd do this. Rather, I'd expect someone who is porting the manifold to port the collector region where it bolts to the turbo, but this absolutely requires that you separate the turbine housing from the manifold.

So...if you actually dropped the turbo and pulled the mani to port the collector (outlet of the manifold), what were you doing? Enlarging the exit diameter? Cleaning off the rough surface of the cast iron? Grinding off the flapper and other contours that you see when you look into the collector of the mani (please say you didn't do this)?

You say you looked at the "inside of the turbo inlet" and that the fins were fine. Are you talking about the compressor wheel (passenger side of the car) or turbine wheel (driver side of the car)? They both have inlets (compressor inlet comes from the filter/MAS/intake pipe, turbine comes from the manifold). You can't see the turbine wheel without taking the turbo off of the manifold (to get at the O2 housing bolts). Did you leave the turbo connected to everything except the mani? You still can't see dick looking into the turbine inlet (can't see the wheel fins at all).

So I guess I'd like to have a "play-by-play" of what you did. I ported my exhaust mani and turbine inlet, and the kind of play-by-play I'm talking about for my experience went something like:

- Disconnected the intake pipe, LICP, oil return pipe, coolant hoses, and oil feed line from the T25 turbo (I'm skipping the radiator fan, heat shields, O2 sensor, etc.)
- Removed the 3 mani/turbo bolts and the one front-passenger-side stud/nut
- Disconnected the downpipe from the O2 housing and pulled the turbo out
- Unbolted the exhaust mani from the head
- Ported the mani collector with die grinder to gasket match a 7cm mani/turbo gasket leaving the flapper in there, because it serves an important role
- Cleaned the metal shavings and soot out of the mani
- Sanded the roughness out of the cast iron mani intake and exit
- Re-cleaned the mani.
- (add in a turbine housing and O2 housing port in my case)
- Reinstall mani to head (with new gasket, studs and nuts) after cleaning head and mani gasket surfaces
- Reinstall turbo/O2 housing to mani with new turbine/mani gasket and a new bolt in place of the original PITA stud/nut
- Reconnect turbo oil supply line, coolant hoses, and bolt oil drain tube to oil pan with new gasket
- Reconnect intake pipe and LICP
- etc.

 

[koberm]

here is what I did.

-Removed the heat sheild
-unbolted 4 manifold to turbo bolts
-unbolted manifold to head bolts
- then pulled the manifold up

I never took the o2 housing off or the downpipe. I just unbolted the manifold from the turbo and that was it. I didn't disconnect any of the coolant lines or oil lines. I've got the turbo supported by a jack so it doesn't fall or bent anything. The manifold was cleaned real well by using lots of compressed air..

 

[pnishr]

I'd be concerned that during the course of lifting the manifold up, you broke some rust or debris off into the turbo. OR, how long did you have the Manifold off, and did you shove a rag into the turbo to keep junk from getting in? Just having the hood closed won't keep the wind from blowing substantial chunks of crap in. I know... Just laying out more possibilities.

 

[kenamond]

I agree with pnishr. You either dropped something into your turbine inlet or something blew or somehow fell in there. Did you stuff a rag into the turbine inlet while you were working on the mani? (did you take it out when you reinstalled the mani) Could something have fallen into the turbine while you were pulling the mani off the head? Were all of your nuts, washers, studs, and bolts accounted for? You said that you broke one of the turbo/mani bolts - did you piece the broken halves together to insure that a 3rd piece didn't break off?

Are you positive that the clicking sound is coming from the turbo?

If you pull the intake pipe off the compressor inlet, can you turn the compressor wheel? Does it bind up? Can you feel any clicking like something loose bumping on the turbine wheel (on the other end of the shaft)?

If you're positive that the noise is coming from the turbo, you might want to drop the turbo and take a look at it. If you put anti-sieze on the turbo/mani bolts when you put the mani back on, then that'll make the job much easier:
0) Pull the heat shields, AC fan, and upper radiator hose (catch the coolant until it stops leaking).
1) Disconnect the oil supply line that connects to the top of the turbo center section (do a search on how to do this the easy way - don't disconnect it from the center section which is the hard way)
2) Disconnect the oil return pipe from the oil pan (2 bolts)
3) Disconnect the two rubber coolant hoses (plug them on the engine side to keep your coolant from spilling/draining everywhere)
4) Borrow an O2 sensor socket and remove the O2 sensor
5) Loosen the clamps on the intake pipe/snorkel and lower intercooler pipe and pull them off the compressor inlet/outlet
6) Remove the boost lines from the wastegate solenoid and compressor housing
7) Unbolt the downpipe bracket (two bolts)
8) Unbolt the downpipe from the O2 housing (two nuts)
9) Start loosening the turbo/mani bolts - this is the last thing holding the turbo to the car. When they get finger loose, you can hang on to the turbo as you loosen the bolts and then lower the whole thing to the floor. If you can get a buddy to help, one can loosen bolts while the other holds the turbo.

Then you can unbolt the O2 housing from the turbine housing and take a look at the turbine wheel and see what shape it's in. You can also pull the turbine housing off, but make sure you scribe a reference line on both the turbine housing and center section before you loosen anything so that you can properly orient (clock) the housing when you bolt it back on.

You'll then need new O2 housing/turbine gasket, O2/downpipe gasket, and oil drain pipe/oil pan gasket. I'm not sure if you can reuse the turbo/mani gasket, but I'd get a new one.

All tolled, it might cost you $50 in gaskets if nothing goes wrong, but you may find that your turbine wheel is destroyed. Better to know that than not.

 

[koberm]

Alright, I pulled my turbo and its fine. It spins free, blades are fine. The only thing wrong with it its the turbine housing w/ the broken stud and stripped threads.

 

[Talonman92]

So if a stud is broken are you are running on like 3 studs only?

That might not be on there good enough. As far as I know exhaust leaks make a ticking sound sometimes. Maybe because you are missing one stud and bolt, there is an exhaust leak at the turbine housing of the turbo??

dunno just a guess =\

 

[kenamond]

Did you strip the turbine housing threads, the stud threads, or the hex head of a bolt or nut?
Which one broke (bolt or stud)? Is the broken one the stripped one?

If it's a stripped stud on the nut end (top), replace it with a bolt (same bolt size as the other 3). Having a bolt there instead of the stud will make it much easier to drop the turbo in the future (maybe you already did this). If it's that or a rounded off bolt head, you can back either out with vice grips and some PB blaster penetrating oil.

If it's stripped and still in the turbine housing, you'll probably have to take it to a machine shop to have them extract it; I've heard other people claim that trying to drill the bolt/stud to get an ezout in there was a major pain, because they are very hard steel. I'm thinking that if it's stripped and still in the turbine housing that the turbine housing threads are probably what stripped out. If that's the case, you'll have to drill and retap the housing for a helicoil or drill and retap for a larger bolt, drill a larger hole in the mani, and use a larger diameter bolt for that one. I'd ask around about using a helicoil for a turbo/mani bolt, though.

The replacement bolts cost $6 each at ExtremePSI. Save the washers; they didn't ship me any when I got my new bolts.

 

[koberm]

I stripped 1 of the threads on turbine housing and broke one of the bolts.

Now, I pulled the turbine housing off and started spinning the turbine wheel when I noticed a little bit of oil start to collect on the bottom of the blades and the plate it sits on, there was no oil there at all when the housing was on. Is that normal or do I need to start thinking "new turbo". Keep this in mind there is no shaft play and the wheel spins free. The turbo only has less than 75 miles on it.

I did this thinking that I was just gonna go to a machine shop to get the housing repaired, but now I'll have to wait for diagnosis before I go any further.

 

[kenamond]

Are you sure there was no oil behind the turbine wheel before you pulled the housing? I've never fully disassembled my T25 (no sur clip pliers for removing the compressor housing), but you might ask around and see if you can pull it apart and put it back together without any new parts just to see if anything is obviously damaged. There is a good article on rebuilding a turbo ath www.vfaq.com. I have also heard that you can get a $300 discount if you send your T25 back to Force Performance to have them give you an FP B28 (which would make it around $500 for a straight bolt-on), but that assumes you'd go with this turbo if you upgraded. I've not verified this $300 number, by the way; read it on this forum, so you should contact them if you are interested in that turbo as an upgrade.

You might be able to do some sort of pressure test on the seals (pressurize the oil intake like to the max oil pressure it would normally experience), but I'd ask around to see if anyone has done this or if it's a bad idea for some reason. I don't know what the oil pressure at that point should be, either.

I'm out of ideas.

 

[koberm]

I don't have the T25. I have the 16g.

All that holds the turbine hoousing is a clamp.

 

[kenamond]

I don't have the T25. I have the 16g.

All that holds the turbine hoousing is a clamp.

Sorry. But I'm still out of ideas.

 

[koberm]

Alright here is an update on the car.

Put a brand new 16g from sbr, new gaskets and new turbo bolts. I put everything together and the car fired right up( I primed the turbo before starting).I let it idle for about 10 mins to burn off excess lube.

Now when I went to rev the engine the loud tapping came back. I did the whole tube to the ear thing and the tapping/ticking is coming from under the valve cover(possibly lifters).
After 5mins of ticking/tapping it goes away, I go and try driving it and i drives smooth then out of no where the Ticking/tapping comes back. The higher rpms the louder the noise, when I let off the gas the car wants to shut off and sputters feels like a misfire. I got back to the house letting the car idle the the noise comes back and treis to shut the car off at idle. So these are some test I've done.



plugs: bpr7es(new) gap.028
wires:magnacore 8.5(new)
compression: 155 all across
boost leaks: none
metal flakes in oil pan: none
Timing: dead on(everything lines up)
cel codes:none

 

[siceclipse]

its the lifters.

Its a steady tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.... right???

then when you drive it goes away??

 

[koberm]

It goes away sometimes and other times the tick gets faster as rpms rise. But how does the lifters cause the car to bog down and make it feel like its misfiring. I haven't got the car up past 4k because of fear I'm gonna blow something.

Start the car, idles fine. ticking on and off. out of no where while at idle it bogs down trying to die. I go to rev it to keep it from shutting off and its fine.

Now I go and drive it. Drives fine, then out of nowhere while driving it starts to sputter like a misfire and the tick/tap is back. So I go to rev it to keep it alive and its fine.

I can't log anything because of this. Would my afc settings play a part in all of this.

lo:35% hi:60%

lo:800..-11
1200..-10
1800..-9
2400..-8
3000..-7
3600..-6
4200..0

hi:2400..-5
3000..-16
3600..-18
4200..-23
4800..-24
5400..-25
6000..-26
6600..-26
7200..-27

 

[exile]

its the lifters.

Its a steady tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.... right???

then when you drive it goes away??

it's not the lifters

 

[siceclipse]

fine, im going with boost leak and lifter tick.