97 Gst serious Engine Problem

[Trinity_Boucher]

Hey i have a 97 gst.i bought the car in november and drove it through till now with no problems till 3 weeks ago. its started to burn oil very slowly but with no noticable side effects what so ever. then about 5 days ago i started it up heard a loud ticking then it dissapered after 20 seconds or so. while it was ticking white/grey smoke pour out the exhaust. then when the ticking is gone no more smoke. i noticed today that the car has alot of lag but not from the turbo. the stock boost gauge (i know Inaccurate) is showing that the turbo is still spooling as normal but i have to give it more gas to go. there is no unusual engine noise it purs nicely. also its burning gas faster than normal too.

Any help would be appreciated and maybe a possible cost of fixing too.

 

[Trinity_Boucher]

also i forgot to add i did an oil change using 10w 30 oil and subsituted .5 litres with lucas oil stablizer. i know it burning oil just wanted to know what is causing it to do so.

 

[steve97Talon]

the stock boost gauge is a calculated reading not accurate, sounds like turbo took a dump.....imo.

 

[Trinity_Boucher]

by calculated what do you mean? does it not read the boost directly?? also the engine ticks for 30 seconds when it hasnt been ran for more than 12 hours roughly. could this all be cause i used a thicker oil??

 

[steve97Talon]

boost is not read directly from turbo,its calculated from maf and map

 

[rush2252]

by calculated what do you mean? does it not read the boost directly?? also the engine ticks for 30 seconds when it hasnt been ran for more than 12 hours roughly. could this all be cause i used a thicker oil??

tHE BOOST gauge simply reads amount of air being drawn through the MAF and guestimates how much boost your running. Its pointless. Run 20psi into the intake while diong a boost leak test w the key on and the gauge will read zero. The ticking is probably the lifters you can find loads of readup using the search. You can either clean them or replace them with the udated 3g version

Kolby

 

[Trinity_Boucher]

tHE BOOST gauge simply reads amount of air being drawn through the MAF and guestimates how much boost your running. Its pointless. Run 20psi into the intake while diong a boost leak test w the key on and the gauge will read zero. The ticking is probably the lifters you can find loads of readup using the search. You can either clean them or replace them with the udated 3g version

Kolby

ok i wasnt sure exactly how the boost gauge works thanks for that. but the ticking im hearing is loud and doesnt sound good and while it ticks smoke is pouring out?? ive heard lifter tick before and this sounds worse, after 30 seconds or so it completely disapears though and the engine just struggles?

 

[lacroixdp]

Ok here are some things to try. Change your oil and do not add Lucas this time - read bobistheoilguy.com for the explanation why. Do a boost leak test - IC Pipe Tester. Disconnect your wastegate before you do this though - if you have a MBC block that off from the inlet hose. My guess is you have a boost leak causing your gas mileage to go down, as well as your turbo not boosting as high as you think it should. Your oil burning issues is probably a valve seal. You can do a leak-down test to verify this - . What is a "leak down" test? — Yahoo! Autos This would be consistent with your blowing smoke the first few seconds you run the car.

Edit: I just saw your post on your ticking. Get a mechanical oil pressure gauge and check your oil pressure at the head as your start up, and as it warms up. Make sure you write them down, and post them back. Also I'd do some compression numbers and post them back here. Also when you say it struggles, does it get any better once the engine is warmed up? That could be a vacuum leak as well. If it is, the boost leak test will help you find it.

 

[sirsol66]

The noise is coming from the fact that after your motor has been sitting for a while (as you said yourself, 12+ hours) the oil is cold (making it thicker) and its mostly down inside your oilpan. With your already clogged and dirty lifters, it takes a while for the oil to make its way up to the lifters and that time is the ticking you hear. I wouldn't really worry about it too much as I've known cars that have this symptom and yet work perfectly well for many, many years.

You should pull off your intake and check your turbo for in/out and side/side shaftplay. If you see oil in your intake, do NOT freak out as this is because of the vent line from your Valve Cover to your intake. Do pull off your LICP (Lower intercooler pipe) and see if that filled with oil. If there's quite a bit, your turbo's seals have gone bad and it could use a rebuild. Same with if there is excessive shaftplay. Good luck

 

[98gsxtuner]

Don't put additeves in your oil dude.

 

[blackjdm90]

The ticking is caused from the oil having to travel up to the head when it is cold. Mine does the same thing when i let it sit overnight. Also check your oil levels because if its too low it will tick and having low oil levels can also make your turbo crap out.

 

[Trinity_Boucher]

Ok here are some things to try. Change your oil and do not add Lucas this time - read bobistheoilguy.com for the explanation why. Do a boost leak test - IC Pipe Tester. Disconnect your wastegate before you do this though - if you have a MBC block that off from the inlet hose. My guess is you have a boost leak causing your gas mileage to go down, as well as your turbo not boosting as high as you think it should. Your oil burning issues is probably a valve seal. You can do a leak-down test to verify this - . What is a "leak down" test? — Yahoo! Autos This would be consistent with your blowing smoke the first few seconds you run the car.

Edit: I just saw your post on your ticking. Get a mechanical oil pressure gauge and check your oil pressure at the head as your start up, and as it warms up. Make sure you write them down, and post them back. Also I'd do some compression numbers and post them back here. Also when you say it struggles, does it get any better once the engine is warmed up? That could be a vacuum leak as well. If it is, the boost leak test will help you find it.

Thanks for the helpfull tips im gunna try some 5w 30 oil and see if it helps. i let the car warm up to 10 minutes this morning when i started to drive it bogged and felt almost like it was choking (blowing smoke while i drove) after two minutes it improved (stopped smoking) but i could still feel that i have to give it more gas just accelerate.

 

[lacroixdp]

Thanks for the helpfull tips im gunna try some 5w 30 oil and see if it helps. i let the car warm up to 10 minutes this morning when i started to drive it bogged and felt almost like it was choking (blowing smoke while i drove) after two minutes it improved (stopped smoking) but i could still feel that i have to give it more gas just accelerate.

What color was the smoke - black?

 

[Trinity_Boucher]

ok its souding more like it could be the turbo. im gunna change the oil tomorrow. quick question though is it still safe to drive the car to work and back (10 minutes each way??)

 

[lacroixdp]

Before you jump the gun on the turbo did you test it for shaft play at all yet?

 

[Trinity_Boucher]

What color was the smoke - black?

white/grayish smoke. after smoking stops the fumes still smell kinda funky. but no smoke. just feels really bogged.

 

[Trinity_Boucher]

Before you jump the gun on the turbo did you test it for shaft play at all yet?

i should say this now im a turbo newb. my previous cars have been N/A so i dont know what to look for or how exactly to test it untill i look it up

 

[lacroixdp]

That's no problem. Take off your intake pipe (hose the filter is attached to) and you'll see the shaft for your turbo. Grab that shaft and see if it moves in and out and up and down. Get a flashlight and check the edge of the fins for contact with the housing. Also, are you using any oil or water? Check your oil and water for any cross-contamination while you're out there checking your turbo. White smoke is usually your car burning antifreeze.

 

[Trinity_Boucher]

That's no problem. Take off your intake pipe and you'll see the shaft for your turbo. Grab that shaft and see if it moves in and out and up and down. Also, are you using any oil or water? Check your oil and water for any cross-contamination while you're out there checking your turbo. White smoke is usually your car burning antifreeze.

ok will do. if it moves around like you said is that bad or good? im guessing bad. just verifying. i think im burning oil some oil ill check tomorow and see if it changed much. im just curious as to why the smoke stops when the ticking stops?? also like i previusly asked is it still safe to drive to work (10 minutes each time) country road so its not stop and go just driving at 2500rpm

 

[rush2252]

i should say this now im a turbo newb. my previous cars have been N/A so i dont know what to look for or how exactly to test it untill i look it up

It sounds like you could have a leaky not blown headgasket or a small crack in the head. IF its white smoke. My NT car would randomly pour out enough smoke to kill mosquitos for ten miles. It smelled odd unlike any other smell ive smelt. It was a combination of antifreeze/oil burning. I wish I could describe the smell as its distinct but its unlike anything I could use for reference. Do the compression test as stated above and post numbers. Then do a leak down I have a feeling your burning coolant and this would explain why the car is "cutting out" for a few minutes then running fine.

My car showed no obvious signs i.e water in oil etc it just would intermitently produce large amounts of smoke out the exhaust. We had the head removed and smoke tested to find hariline cracks in the valve seats

Kolby

Try looking to see if your exhaust manifold has any cracks Look at the pic in this link. This is signs of antifreeze being burnt and escaping the exhaust manifold through a hairline crack. Normally one would expect black soot to be present instead of the white substance

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/333935-evo-iii-exhaust-manifold-installl-gaskets.html

 

[Trinity_Boucher]

It sounds like you could have a leaky not blown headgasket or a small crack in the head. IF its white smoke. My NT car would randomly pour out enough smoke to kill mosquitos for ten miles. It smelled odd unlike any other smell ive smelt. It was a combination of antifreeze/oil burning. I wish I could describe the smell as its distinct but its unlike anything I could use for reference. Do the compression test as stated above and post numbers. Then do a leak down I have a feeling your burning coolant and this would explain why the car is "cutting out" for a few minutes then running fine.

My car showed no obvious signs i.e water in oil etc it just would intermitently produce large amounts of smoke out the exhaust. We had the head removed and smoke tested to find hariline cracks in the valve seats

Kolby

Try looking to see if your exhaust manifold has any cracks Look at the pic in this link. This is signs of antifreeze being burnt and escaping the exhaust manifold through a hairline crack. Normally one would expect black soot to be present instead of the white substance

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/333935-evo-iii-exhaust-manifold-installl-gaskets.html

the blown head gasket was one of my assumptions. what is the average cost for one to replace at a shop? would it just be easier/cheaper to do it myself. i have mechanical skills and all the tools to do so.

 

[lacroixdp]

ok will do. if it moves around like you said is that bad or good? im guessing bad. just verifying. i think im burning oil some oil ill check tomorow and see if it changed much. im just curious as to why the smoke stops when the ticking stops?? also like i previusly asked is it still safe to drive to work (10 minutes each time) country road so its not stop and go just driving at 2500rpm

Shaft play is bad but I'm thinking you are burning coolant, which leads me to believe your head gasket is blown. Do a compression test. If it was my car I wouldn't drive it until I figured out for sure what is broken. If you are burning antifreeze it is very hard on your O2 and Cat, not to mention if it's mixing in your oil it will eat through your bearings quickly. So before you assume anything else I'd:
- Compression Test
- Check oil and antifreeze for contaminants
- Check Turbo
- Check for boost leaks
If it makes you feel any better I am going through the same thing right now. My lifters started ticking more than usual and I'm using just a smidgen of coolant. After checking everything, ends up my head gasket is blown (Compression was 170,150,150,170) and I'm getting ready to yank my engine for a rebuild'

 

[lacroixdp]

the blown head gasket was one of my assumptions. what is the average cost for one to replace at a shop? would it just be easier/cheaper to do it myself. i have mechanical skills and all the tools to do so.

It depends on if it got in your oil. If it got in your oil it could have damaged your bearings. I priced out a head gasket replacement on my car to $470, including an oil pump. Tossing in bearings and such, I'm up to around $680.

 

[rush2252]

+2 on compression test

If you DIY it and just buy the headgasket (pulling the head w both manifold attached) Id say you can spend around $200USD that would include new fluids. I havent priced an OEM headgasket but I know you can pick up an aftermarket gasket for around $30USD I would replace the timing belt and water pump while your there. But first and foremost Id have the head checked/resurfaced this shouldnt cost more than $70USD It might not be a headgasket but a cracked head. If you pull it yourself usually there will be white speckles crystalized to the valve seats and around where the HG seals this usually indicates small cracks unseen to the human eye.

Kolby

EDIT** the white speckles are the silicants in the antifreeze adhering to the aluminum. You might also notice them on the valves themselves Mine looked like it had some sort of disease affixed to them

 

[Trinity_Boucher]

K so i did a compression test and i got the following numbers.

4 - 160, 3 - 159, 2 - 172, 1 - 175. im starting to think more and more its the head gasket. the anti freeze doesnt appear to be any lower or to be mixed with oil. also it seems to be burning alot of oil. still a little confused about it all though.