600hp daily turbo setup help

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Depends on where you take the centroid. There's no industry standard for where in the volute they take that end point for "R" values

Compare an HX52 16cm housing with a GT42R 1.15 and 1.28 T4 for example.

Using that simple equation we would have 16cm^2 = ~1.13 A/R, it is considerably larger in the volute and the nozzle

Put a BEP .55 for an S200sx or HX40 next to an FP 8cm2 housing.. look down the throat and where it enters the inducer of the turbine wheel.

Consider also that the HX40 and S200sx turbine wheels are much bigger than the FP black turbine. 76mm and 74mm respectively vs. 67mm for the Black

 

[Archer Fabrications]

8 cm^2 = 0.57 A/R

Fp is not devided though

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Fp is not devided though

Neither is the BEP .55 housing..

 

[Boostdriven]

Fp's 8cm housing is bigger than the bep .55 housing just an Fyi

And for your information, a/r size like the stock dsm housing is calculated with the stock wheel in mind not something bigger. I have 3 different housing at home, HX40 16cm2, HX40 19cm2 which I machined to fit HX52 and I have a stock 16cm2 HX52 housing. That HX52 16cm2 housing is way bigger then the HX40 19cm2 housing, explain that.

When you take a stock housing like dsm 8cm and stuff a bigger wheel in it, its no longer a 8cm per the new wheel but more like 6 or 7, if I'm wrong, someone please correct me, I'm just looking at it from a common sense point of few.

If bep made a housing for HX40 and they call it .55 a/r then it probably is .55 cause they made it for that particular turbine wheel, although I think its smaller then .55 because they use the same housing for HX35 and still call it .55 a/r.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Well isnt the ^2 referring to a twin scroll, fps site doesnt say 8cm2 or 8^2 it just says 8cm. I dont know too much about Turbine geometry though.
I know the .55 isnt TS. I own it.

 

[pyro719]

I agree the bep hx40 .55 housing is bigger. I was comparing the fp .55 xh35 to the 8cm fp housing.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

.55AR is .55AR when referring to BEP housings they use the same volute design.

 

[pyro719]

And for your information, a/r size like the stock dsm housing is calculated with the stock wheel in mind not something bigger. I have have 3 different housing at home, HX40 16cm2, HX40 19cm2 which I machined to fit HX52 and I have a stock 16cm2 HX52 housing. That HX52 16cm2 housing is way bigger then the HX40 19cm2 housing, explain that.

When you take a stock housing like dsm 8cm and stuff a bigger wheel in it, its no longer a 8cm per the new wheel but more like 6 or 7, if I'm wrong, someone please correct me, I'm just looking at it from a common sense point of few.

If bep made a housing for HX40 and they call it .55 a/r then it probably is .55 cause they made it for that particular turbine wheel, although I think its smaller then .55 because they use the same housing for HX35 and still call it .55 a/r.

Its not a mitsu housing its cast by fp.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Edit:
Decided i didn't wanna provide misinformation.

 

[pyro719]

Edit:
Decided i didn't wanna provide misinformation.

Your making
392.6whp/329.1 lb-ft on an hx40?

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I WAS, with only 22 psi on 92 pump with the .55 AR but that was cause aaron at english didn't turn up the boost. I tuned myself after that dyno run and I'm on 30 psi on 94 octane pump, maxing out my injectors and probably in the neighborhood of 500 with low timing.
Just havent made it to magnus' dynojet yet.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

The "^2" in "cm^2" notation is to denote Centimeters Squared.. its a measure of nozzle area/cross-section

Divided or not divided is listed separately, but also changes how the Area to Radius ratio is to be understood.

And for your information, a/r size like the stock dsm housing is calculated with the stock wheel in mind not something bigger. I have have 3 different housing at home, HX40 16cm2, HX40 19cm2 which I machined to fit HX52 and I have a stock 16cm2 HX52 housing. That HX52 16cm2 housing is way bigger then the HX40 19cm2 housing, explain that.

When you take a stock housing like dsm 8cm and stuff a bigger wheel in it, its no longer a 8cm per the new wheel but more like 6 or 7, if I'm wrong, someone please correct me, I'm just looking at it from a common sense point of few.

If bep made a housing for HX40 and they call it .55 a/r then it probably is .55 cause they made it for that particular turbine wheel, although I think its smaller then .55 because they use the same housing for HX35 and still call it .55 a/r.

It depends on how it was machined and where the original measurement was taken.

The HX40 turbine wheel is bigger than the HX35's, both are offered in a housing with the same listed nozzle area however.

A/R and cm2 are only directly comparable within the same family.

Like GT42R T4 1.01 vs 1.15, 1.28 or 1.44 are comparable directly.. because its the same turbine wheel and same footprint.

You couldn't compare the GT35R T4 equivalents because its a different wheel and different housing, even if the A/R is the same.

It's why a 9cm2 HY35 housing is not directly comparable to an FP 8cm housing..

 

[Archer Fabrications]

But like i said the .55 ar hx40 is the same volute design as the hx35. So even though they have different sized wheels they both have the same AR.

 

[Boostdriven]

Its not a mitsu housing its cast by fp.

I kknow Fp's housing is not Mitsubishi but its nothing more then a copy of one with few improvements like bigger hole in the t25 flange and of course their Fp logo

Cm2 or a/r is same difference, its just different way of explaining the size of the housing. I can take that bep .55 housing and hack the shit out of it to stuff that HX52 in it, but I wouldn't call it .55 anymore, more like .15, though I doubt that wheel would even fit in there with out rubbing on the inside of that housing

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I dont think it would either, no way in hell. Ive seem those turbines not enough meat
At ALL

 

[rr06rs]

And for your information, a/r size like the stock dsm housing is calculated with the stock wheel in mind not something bigger. I have 3 different housing at home, HX40 16cm2, HX40 19cm2 which I machined to fit HX52 and I have a stock 16cm2 HX52 housing. That HX52 16cm2 housing is way bigger then the HX40 19cm2 housing, explain that.

When you take a stock housing like dsm 8cm and stuff a bigger wheel in it, its no longer a 8cm per the new wheel but more like 6 or 7, if I'm wrong, someone please correct me, I'm just looking at it from a common sense point of few.

If bep made a housing for HX40 and they call it .55 a/r then it probably is .55 cause they made it for that particular turbine wheel, although I think its smaller then .55 because they use the same housing for HX35 and still call it .55 a/r.

Actually, this is very much incorrect. I USE to think the same thing.....that a different turbine would affect the a/r but Justin on here and Paul Volk explained to me with a much easier to read illustration of how a/r is measured and showed me that regardless of the size of the wheel, the center of the turbine is going to remain the same, as will the radius of the volute. What WILL affect it is if that radius of the volute changes and the only way that would change would be by enlarging or decreasing the diameter of the volute or more specifically, the SCROLL which is obviously how we come to a larger or smaller a/r.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Actually, this is very much incorrect. I USE to think the same thing.....that a different turbine would affect the a/r but Justin on here and Paul Volk explained to me with a much easier to read illustration of how a/r is measured and showed me that regardless of the size of the wheel, the center of the turbine is going to remain the same, as will the radius of the volute. What WILL affect it is if that radius of the volute changes and the only way that would change would be by enlarging or decreasing the diameter of the volute or more specifically, the SCROLL which is obviously how we come to a larger or smaller a/r.

See below:

It depends on how it was machined and where the original measurement was taken.

The HX40 turbine wheel is bigger than the HX35's, both are offered in a housing with the same listed nozzle area however.

A/R and cm2 are only directly comparable within the same family.

Like GT42R T4 1.01 vs 1.15, 1.28 or 1.44 are comparable directly.. because its the same turbine wheel and same footprint.

You couldn't compare the GT35R T4 equivalents because its a different wheel and different housing, even if the A/R is the same.

It's why a 9cm2 HY35 housing is not directly comparable to an FP 8cm housing..

In Boostdriven's case - where he made a hybrid 52.. To accommodate the HX52 wheel in the 19cm2 HX40 housing, you are machining for a wheel with a major radius 5mm greater due to the new 86mm turbine inducer vs the original 76mm inducer.

So A may change, but R should stay the same if we are taking the centroid to determine the other endpoint of R at roughly the same volute depth it was originally measured.

This machining goes quite a ways into the scroll case and definitely affects the nozzle area.

 

[Boostdriven]

Actually, this is very much incorrect. I USE to think the same thing.....that a different turbine would affect the a/r but Justin on here and Paul Volk explained to me with a much easier to read illustration of how a/r is measured and showed me that regardless of the size of the wheel, the center of the turbine is going to remain the same, as will the radius of the volute. What WILL affect it is if that radius of the volute changes and the only way that would change would be by enlarging or decreasing the diameter of the volute or more specifically, the SCROLL which is obviously how we come to a larger or smaller a/r.

Yes I agree that the physical size and the center of the wheel will not change, that's just common sense right there. What will change is the volume inside the scroll outside of the inducer of the exhaust wheel. So lest say just because I can fit HX52 wheel inside .55 a/r housing with out the inducer blades of the exhaust wheel rubbing on the inside of scroll don't mean that the housing will function like a .55 a/r housing on the HX52 wheel. I'm not talking about the actual numbers like a/r or cm2 but the functionality of the housing per a given wheel. Look at gt35 .9x a/r housing and look at gt42 .9x housing, maybe same number but two different housings, one is noticeably larger then the other. If what your saying was 100% true then they would be making the same housing whether it was for gt35 or gt42

 

[gorf]

WOW all these people with 600 hp DD.....

I guess I am doing something wrong, 350-400 hp (never dynoed) and I can't keep the SOB on the road.........

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

What have you been breaking?

 

[phunny]

What have you been breaking?

Yeah, this

 

[gorf]

What have you been breaking?

Mostly the rebuilt engine. Bought a short block off of a builder and it was sh1t lasted about 10k miles. He built it with a bent crank and that basically welded my clutch to the spline shaft. Had Shep refresh and fix tranny and I rebuilt engine with new eagle crank. Cannot get the front oil pump cover to not leak. And now I am using oil again.
I am about to throw in the towel and go back to my stock 7 bolt....

 

[GPTourer]

You guys are a great source of good info but I think these turbo manufacturers make this stuff confusing on purpose so that it is harder for the Chinese to reverse engineer their shit and keeps their competitors off track. Compressor maps, volutes and A/Rs. Can't make any assumptions from one brand to another at all. And of course, a company like FP is not going to give up anything either.

If I were chasing down 600hp, I would not want to compromise myself by using a bolt on style turbo, or a modified version of a bolt on turbo. I'd either go with a full t3 or Holset kit like others have pointed out. Mitsu designed that housing for the Evo to make the best turbo for a ~300hp vehicle with a great midrange punch. If they'd wanted 600 they'd have done it a lot differently. Just because you can mix and match parts to get 600 out of it doesn't make it the best way to go IMO.

 

[phunny]

Mostly the rebuilt engine. Bought a short block off of a builder and it was sh1t lasted about 10k miles. He built it with a bent crank and that basically welded my clutch to the spline shaft. Had Shep refresh and fix tranny and I rebuilt engine with new eagle crank. Cannot get the front oil pump cover to not leak. And now I am using oil again.
I am about to throw in the towel and go back to my stock 7 bolt....

Sucks man :/. But this isn't going to happen on a well built car (knock on wood ).

 

[98gst14b]

<<<< 609 awhp daily driven car. 40 psi, I drive 40 miles to track, run 5-6 times and drive home, every weekend. I drive the car to work everyday, gets 30 mpg highway, 93 octane. Just have to know what your doing and always be checking the car! Check the oils/fluids all the time, especially the trans Get JusMX141 to start building you a holset, you will love that turbo, I love mine