60-1 users, what supporting mods?

[cfisher]

You got the RS60T right. Does it feel better than your old 50 trim? I've got one showing up on tuesday and I've got a Frank 2 turbo on it right now. I'm hoping to see a bigger gain in #'s and want to push it right around 20 psi for now.

 

[sweet97]

I'm having a blast with the 60-1! It revs very quick. Also flow a lot of air at low boost along at high boost.
My only problem is not wth the turbo but I am only getting 17/18 PSI. I ran it without the MBC and 17/18 psi. I am going to cover the 1G BOV outlet and see what happens. I believe the BOV is not capable of handling the flow of the turbo and is losing boost. 20-22 psimust be a real blast for sure! This turbo revs quickly. It's into boost so soon that I don't notice the lag. I feel I have another 35HP there if I can get to 22 psi. Wouldlike suggestions for the next mod also.Here's what i have:
1. 60-1
2. 650cc inj's-enough for my 108k mile motor
3. Spearco 2-221 FMIC
4. ColdAirIntake
5. Walbro/AFPR
6. 3" turbo back
7. wideband/scanmaster/MAFT(blow thru)
I am thinking a set of cams, not too wild. Perhaps Crower stage 1's.They proide 14* more duration on the intake and 24* more duration on the exhaust. Advice always welcome. Mark

 

[anconover]

why would you choose crower? If you want an extremely mild cam, get HKS 264's and FP1's/Comp101100's.

And if you cant boost over 17psi with the wg vac line disconnected, its probly not the bov... And stock 1g bov usually hold 20-24psi uncrushed.

 

[sweet97]

why would you choose crower? If you want an extremely mild cam, get HKS 264's and FP1's/Comp101100's.

And if you cant boost over 17psi with the wg vac line disconnected, its probly not the bov... And stock 1g bov usually hold 20-24psi uncrushed.

Well with the Crowers I could find specs. I don't have the duration of the others. Tried the wastegate without a vac line and no change. Capped the BOV outlet and blew off the elbow from the lower IC piping. I will have to do a boost leak test. Mark

 

[anconover]

if boost leak tests fine, tighten the arm on the wastegate actuator...

The HKS 264's and the FP1's are gonna offer more of a drop in cam compared to crowers. Id go with somethnig a lil nastier with a 60-1 tho.

 

[sweet97]

MBC is tightened all the way. I tried the actuator withthe vac line removed-17PSI. I will do a boost leak test but am afraid the exhaust isf forcing the wastegate flapper open! Actuator arm is fully tight.

 

[tmizer]

if boost leak tests fine, tighten the arm on the wastegate actuator...

The HKS 264's and the FP1's are gonna offer more of a drop in cam compared to crowers. Id go with somethnig a lil nastier with a 60-1 tho.

Here are 101100 (~FP1) cam specs.

 

[gimmie11s]

turbos with adjustable wastegate actuators, in theory, do not even need a boost controller. The adjustable arm IS the boost controller. Buick guys have been doing this for years and years. The BOV is NOT your problem. As Anconover said, they'll hold over 20 psi easily.

also, Crower cams suck big weiner. do a search on here or on DSMTalk to learn exactly why.

a 60-1 needs cams like HKS's 272's. That is what i have and the gain in power over stock was unbeleivable.....really.

idle is rough but mean sounding.

-dom

 

[anconover]

I think anything less agressive than 272's or FP2's would be a waste honestly with a setup like that. And i doubt the flapper is blowing open. The flapper should be able to stay closed @ 17psi. Unless the actuator is garbage. But this again is why I suggested against internal wastegates with larger turbo's =P

 

[sweet97]

I have the arm shortened so that I am getting 20-22 psi now. Still could not go higher wich is fine until the 6 bolt is rebuilt. Which cams have the better/smootheridle, the HKS 272's or the FP2's? Mark

 

[gimmie11s]

Which cams have the better/smootheridle, the HKS 272's or the FP2's?

Stock cams sound like what you want.

if you want to go fast buy HKS 272s.

if you want a great idle, keep the stockers in it.

 

[sweet97]

I will do my research and finda cam-set that provides some additional power with a good idle. A smooth cam will still help perforance while idling well. boost cntrol is the issue right now.Mark

 

[4kinboost]

Hey guys,
Not-so newbie just adding a suggestion....
Seems like the 272's are exactly what you should be putting on this combo. Just bought my 4th dsm on sat (95 talon awd) and your set-up is very similar to what I'm putting together. (big greddy fmic,255 pump,greddy bov,built motor,3" exhaust,dsm link etc) Only difference is the rs65 that i'll have by saturday-- flows 65lbs/min.

I chose the 272's because they are proven over time to work consistently with alot of different turbo's. Seems like they outperform the crowers and jun cams as well hands down. I love comparing dyno sheets cuz they tel you much more than peak hp figs. They tell you what rpm range that your motor will have the biggest balls... HKS 272's made some nice numbers, i can deal with a lumpier idle-- chevy guys have been dealing with it for years.

check out this link;
http://www.automotosports.com/cam_test.asp

happy boostin'

 

[pianoman]

What about running a 264/272 combo?

 

[91gvr4]

I will tell you all how the 272's are with the Rs60t in hopefully about 2 weeks

 

[sweet97]

Well I added a header to my mods to assist this 60-1. I bought it from Logic performance and it is NOT a DNP but a DNP "copy". The collecter is a large area vulume wise though the actual exit hole is more like a 6cm rather than a 7cm but I did not feel this was an issue after seeing how the inlets to both the header and a ported EVO3 are about 1/8" smaller all around the gasket opening. Installation was a snap exceptmy dwnpipe flange had tobe altered due to an angle problem though not a fair assessment of the header itself as I had to have the flange modified to fit the 02 housing properly originally.
Now the stuff that counts. The 60-1 is an amazing wheel to start with spooling well because it moves a lotof air at lowboost pressures. Well I found a fairly quiet country road and got into 3rd gear and cruised at 2500rpm's until it was clear to hit it. Immediatly it began to boost! I have an actuator problem that ben is going to try to help with another stiffer springed actuator. Right now I have the armas shortas possible and it allows 20-21PSImax boost and I hit that before 4000 RPM. Not sure exactly when it hit full boost due to checking the boost gauge, tach and the road. I can say this 60-1 reminds me of my EVO3 which was my first turbo upgrade.
Even had myfirst "lame" race as it was a rolling situation i traffic against a 5.0 modded Mustang, not sure of the year but I let him hit it first and then I went and very shortly passed him.
My next issue is choosing a set of cams. I am keeping this car very streetable, capable of a cross country cruise type situation. First choice is a set of HKS 264's. Suggstions as always appreciated. mark

 

[DSM90AWD]

^^ sounds like you're having fun with the 60-1.. now update your profile

 

[ShapeGSX]

Sure it can.... numbers do not lie diambo4life, I would venture to say an EVO III 16g can put down as much as 420-430 WHP if given some more time tuning on the dyno. The fact is , we did 400.3 at only 19-20 PSI breaking in a 7.5:1 compression 2.3L on the dyno, with a SAFC and GM maf, and "gasp" a stock intake manifold.

Missed this before. Nice numbers. I would doubt that you would be able to run much more than 19-20psi with that engine and an Evo III 16G, anyway.

I have no doubt that an Evo III 16G can put down 400hp. In fact, I'm sure I've done it. Just at a track, not on a dyno.

 

[anconover]

272's or fp2s are EXTREMELY streetable. I have fp2's now, had 272's. Car idles 100% like stock on the fp2's, idled perfect on the 272's as well. I didnt feel the low end loss some people complain about, and ive added a sheetmetal intake mani, and the fp2's at the same time. I actually felt more off boost power. Dont bother with the 264's. 272's or fp2's no doubt. I will garauntee you wouldnt regret it either.

 

[306dsm2.0]

I do have to agree with cams making a big difference. I threw on my 272's and a forrester intake mani and wow it pulls alot harder from 5000 up. To bad my tranny didnt enjoy the extra power, now ill make some use of the tre trans i have in my garage.

 

[sweet97]

Adding my latest supporting mod this weekend, a Stage 3 Buschur block/head, that should wake the turbo some! Mark

 

[rowlex]

sinced we've about beat the hell out of needed support mods for this turbo...can we move on to tuning it?

I tried running 20-22psi on it and I was getting a lot of knock...pulled some of the knok out with reducing timing but i'm still getting about 7 counts. and my HP estimates seem to be low.. I have plenty of fuel support for the turbo. Does anyone think their is a possibility of upping the boost and lowering my knock counts, without race gas? I am about to purchase a water/alc injection kit so I can fend off the knock...any suggestions?

Here's some more relevant info: 780cc inj. AFPR set at 43 with vac off, 255 walbro, 24x12x3 fmic, maft in blow through(dials are zero'd out) (seems to be really close to actual.)

can those who want to that are running 20+psi post how much boost and related knock and timing/fuel adjustments? THANKS!

Here are a few logs, one of them shows my timing changes.
This one shows a pretty good 3rd and fourth gear pull
http://www.streetevolution.com/se_r...g2.jpg?r=475337
this one shows my timing sliders
http://www.streetevolution.com/se_r...og.jpg?r=137139
this one is a third gear pull 269 HP to the wheels on 21-22PSI
http://www.streetevolution.com/se_r...og3.jpg?r=18966

by this last run my fuel adjustments are: (global -45) -2 from 4500-5500, -3 at 6000, -4 at 6500, -6 at 7k (where i shift at)

Any pointers would help, I had an experienced tuner helping me tune it, but he is used to 1G's.

TIA!

 

[paul s]

I'm running 24psi on 60-1 and 94 octane, 750s. global at 42% fuel sliders at -8-10% in the 4500+, timing -2deg 4500+. I get very little (2 counts)of knock upper 4th gear. 3rd gear pull dsmlink shows 385hp with 0% compensation(drivetrainloss) 60-90mph=2.9sec

 

[95AWD_TSI_TALON]

also, Crower cams suck big weiner. do a search on here or on DSMTalk to learn exactly why.

Have you ever run crower's? I am running crowers 64414's and have ran HKS's 272's. And your link to the cam test is a good review. But its with a 16g.........stated in there findings "We reached the limitations of the 16G turbo during this test. ........With a larger turbo choice (T3/T4) I think the difference in high RPM horsepower would be more apparent and would reflect better on the more aggressive camshafts" And this is very true. The crowers are more of a drag cam where as the idle is not as smooth. You deffinitly know their are cams in the car. But the crowers performed better IMHO with my 60-1. I originaly had the crowers in with a 16g set up....I noticed better low end switching to the 272's but lost top end the Crowers had.
Matthew

 

[rowlex]

I'm running 24psi on 60-1 and 94 octane, 750s. global at 42% fuel sliders at -8-10% in the 4500+, timing -2deg 4500+. I get very little (2 counts)of knock upper 4th gear. 3rd gear pull dsmlink shows 385hp with 0% compensation(drivetrainloss) 60-90mph=2.9sec

hey paul, I did some more tuning today and got rid of a lot of my knock...I was wondering if you changed much regarding MAF airflow values? I found that a lot of my problem was at the 2000hrz switchover point...I lowered it to 1900 with pretty good results. at 20-21 psi... i went a little more radical on fuel removal then you at -10-15%. I've done a lot of Airflow tweaking mainly just adjusting it lower in the areas i was getting knock at. The boostest is right about on par with my boost gauge.