6 bolt swap won't stay running, hard start

[justinh722]

I Just completed a 6 bolt swap and I'm having troubles getting the car running. The compression is good and I have heard the engine run before. The timing belt is on right, triple checked it. It has the 1g CAS in it from a 1990 and the harness is a 95. The car will start if I floor the pedal but it won't rev up. The rpms just lope at like 300. The timing in ecm link shoots up to 21 while starting it...not sure if that's normal.

I put the car at #1 TDC and aligned the indentations on the CAS for correct timing. I swapped plug wires around numerous times cause the 2G coils were used and weren't mounted the same. I have 1-4 on the same coil and 2-3 on the other coil. If I swap them to the oposite coils, the car wont start and backfires out the intake. I currently have the knock sensor unhooked ### I can't find it at the moment. Is there any other sensors besides the MAS and the CAS that would cause this condition?

 

[tuxdreamerx]

Are you running a 1g fuel rail and pressure regulator?

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

 

[justinh722]

I'm using the 2g fuel rail and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. I built the tool to find a boost leak which I'm pretty sure I need to have the timing at 40 degrees BTDC so the valves are closed. I THINK that's how to do it. I still don't get what the problem could be unless I have a bad CAS. The CAS will trigger the pump and injectors and coil so I don't get it. I know my MAS is good ### It worked great in the 7 bolt motor. I have ECMlink checked for inverted CAS.

I went out and put the boost leak tester on the throttle body and I can't get it to build boost at all. I tried it at TDC and I don't know how to get it to 30 degrees ATDC or even 40 degrees BTDC. I tried turning the crank a 1/4 turn past TDC and 1/4 turn before TDC and still won't build boost. What am I doing wrong? Every thread I find says to put it at 30 degrees ATDC but no one says what exactly that is. Do I count the teeth?

 

[awddarrell]

i had a similar prob doing a 6 bolt swap and pulled the engine and put a 7 bolt back in
this thread has a little info for you as well
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/152329-how-do-6-bolt-swap-what-you-need.html
you may have seen it already but here ya go anyway. but follow these steps and you should be good!

 

[justinh722]

i had a similar prob doing a 6 bolt swap and pulled the engine and put a 7 bolt back in
this thread has a little info for you as well
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/152329-how-do-6-bolt-swap-what-you-need.html
you may have seen it already but here ya go anyway. but follow these steps and you should be good!

I did already see that thread. A lot of that is unnecessary for a basic swap. My problem is the manifold won't hold boost pressure and the car won't stay running. When the engine was in the other car the guy didn't have a MAS in the car and didn't know why it wouldn't idle or boost. He was still able to drive the car but it ran very poorly. I can't even get the thing to rev past 1000. I did have a friend turn the CAS all the way one way and it started and idled at 2 grand and then died right away. Couldn't get it to do it again.

 

[miguelmcv]

Check this out Dude.


http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/217951-how-diagnose-no-start.html

 

[justinh722]

Check this out Dude.


http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/217951-how-diagnose-no-start.html

My car has fuel, spark, and compression. It seems like a timing or metered air problem. The fact I can't build boost in the intake manifold from a boost leak tester at the throttle body should mean something isn't right. Timing marks are dead on and the CAS is set to the TDC mark. Could a bad EGR cause my boost leak test to read 0?

Thought I should mention that all my vacuum lines are bypassed and plugged. Including the EGR valve. No vacuum lines are hooked up to it. I don't suppose that's why I can't build pressure is it?

 

[miguelmcv]

You should block all the lines, (But all the lines). Boost gauge, PCV, Brake Booster Line and all Vacuum lines like you all ready mention.
After that, do the Boost Leak Test from the Throttle Body and see what happens....
If you are not building any Boost. Then.
Do a Compression test.. Have you Done a Compression test?..

If you are not Building Boost from the Throttle Body and seeing no signs of a Leak, then,,, You might have a bend Valve.

Time to do a Compression Test.

 

[justinh722]

You should block all the lines, (But all the lines). Boost gauge, PCV, Brake Booster Line and all Vacuum lines like you all ready mention.
After that, do the Boost Leak Test from the Throttle Body and see what happens....
If you are not building any Boost. Then.
Do a Compression test.. Have you Done a Compression test?..

If you are not Building Boost from the Throttle Body and seeing no signs of a Leak, then,,, You might have a bend Valve.

Time to do a Compression Test.

I have done a compression test while it was in the other car. It was like 150-150-150-140 and that was on a cold engine. I had thought it was bent valves when we couldn't get it started in the 1990 chasis but it turned out to be a bad injector resistor. Are u telling me to block all vacuum lines including the brake booster and boost gauge? If not, I have all vacuum lines blocked from the throttle body.

Only vacuum lines I'm running are the boost gauge and fuel pressure regulator and brake booster and pcv valve. The PCV valve is from the 7 bolt so I know it's good. I still can't build boost with the boost leak tester.

 

[miguelmcv]

I Had this problem Yesterday,, I couldn't build boost at the Throttle Body.

It end up Being the Intake Gasket, Throttle Body Gasket, Throttle Body Seals and Vacuum Hoses.

With all this leaks I couldn't see any leak with the soapy water, so I tap all the Lines Including the Boost Brake, PCV and Vacuum Lines, and I left the boost Gauge to Check the pressure, and set up the Compressor at 60psi,, so That's the way I track the Leak..

With the Compressor at 60 I can Barely see 5psi at the Throttle Body, but it makes the leak Visible with the Soupy Water.

I hope this helps.

 

[GSX77901]

Check the coil again. The coil packs from a 7 bolt and 6 bolt have diffrent firing orders.

 

[miguelmcv]

Check the coil again. The coil packs from a 7 bolt and 6 bolt have diffrent firing orders.

He is not Building Boost at the Throttle Body...

Please Read the Post.

 

[justinh722]

I'll make sure to do the test tomorrow with everything blocked but the boost gauge. I did use some soapy water tonight and saw some very small bubbles from the throttle body bolts but nothing drastic enough to not build some pressure. I'm using a small 2 gallon air compressor and it's not that great. It's 100 psi compressor and should build enough to move the gauge.

 

[miguelmcv]

Check closely the Throttle Body Seals, Is almost impossible to see a leak with the soppy water which it has the Spring on one side and the TPS at the other end.

 

[justinh722]

I'll definitely keep an eye on it. Quick question, did ## car run at all with it not holding boost like mine?

 

[miguelmcv]

It can be Running But will be like running on 2 pistons.

Will be on But with a really bad Idle, and might struggle to keep running.

Ho.. I forgot to mention to look under neath the Intake manifold Gasket as well for a Leak.

 

[justinh722]

It can be Running But will be like running on 2 pistons.

Will be on But with a really bad Idle, and might struggle to keep running.

Ho.. I forgot to mention to look under neath the Intake manifold Gasket as well for a Leak.

I'll give it a try. What's the easiest way to get at the bottom of the intake? Would it be easier to just replace the 1g intake with my 2g intake? Seems like it would be a pain to change the Intake manifold. I also found 2 of my wires to the ISC were broken off.

 

[miguelmcv]

No, you don't have to change it, the 2g has smaller ports which the 1g is way Bigger.

Here is the difference between both 1g and 2g.

Left side is a 1g and wright side is a 2g.

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclipsetech/headswap/1g2gheadswapintakemanifoldlg.jpg

 

[justinh722]

Damn that's a huge difference. I knew there was a difference, but I didn't think it was that drastic. hopefully I can find the leak tomorrow and post my results. I just hope it's not a valve.

 

[mrfister11]

fuel pump

 

[justinh722]

I just got done removing the intake. I unplugged everything in my way and doused the whole intake with soapy water. The whole upper part of the gasket was leaking and creating huge bubbles. I didn't get a chance to squirt the lower part of the gasket but after removing the intake, there was a lot of oil between the number 3 and 4 intake runners. I'm assuming with it making large bubbles all over, that it might be why I can't build even 1 pound of boost.

I'm HOPING that's why It won't build boost. Is it a good idea to put a little silicone bead all around the new gasket? The throttle body gaskets leaked a little also, so would some RTV be alright on those? The fuel pump worked just fine for my 7 bolt.

 

[miguelmcv]

I'm assuming with it making large bubbles all over, that it might be why I can't build even 1 pound of boost.

I'm HOPING that's why It won't build boost. Is it a good idea to put a little silicone bead all around the new gasket? The throttle body gaskets leaked a little also, so would some RTV be alright on those?


Yes..
It is why it was not building Boost.
Once you replace your Intake manifold, It will make more Boost, so be prepared to find more Leaks...
It will be more easy to track the leak when building Boost.

Now To the 2nd Question.

NO.
Do not put RTV on the Gasket. Just put it like that, with out anything...
What gasket are you using?
You can use any kind, But to be save I always use OEM on that area..
I't feels bad when you put a new gasket and end up leaking from the fist Boost leak test.

Ijf you end up replacing your Throttle Body Gaskets,,, Make sure those to be OEM, It is a (MUST).

 

[justinh722]

The gasket is a fel-pro gasket from advance auto parts. Is there a reason I can't use silicone on the gaskets? I have used silicone in place of gaskets all the time. Even used just silicone to seal the crankcase on a crotch rocket motor. Would it be less likely to seal with it?

I would have gotten all OEM gaskets but I can't ever make it up to the dealer which is about 45 minutes away before they close. It seems weird that my car would run this way with the bad intake gasket. U would think it would atleast idle high with a huge vacuum leak like this instead of not running at all.

 

[miguelmcv]

Well.
I really can't tell you why not to use RTC, which a lot of people here use it at that area.
Personally I never use at that area nor the Throttle gasket, all what I do is to clean both areas very well where the gasket seats to make a good seal.
I used Felpro from Oraley on my GST (no RTV) with out a problems.
If you use RTV, try to leave it to seat from 30 to 60 min. so the RTV drys completely to proved a good seal.

Concerning to the Leak.
Every car is different so, It could run or it wont.

But who knows.
My car used to be strong and didn't note is about a leak or anything else, Until I swap the Tranny. (Terrible Idle).

 

[justinh722]

I'll see how it all goes tomorrow when installing the gasket. I'll let u know what I find out. I appreciate the help.

Got the new intake gasket in and found a couple vacuum leaks and got them fixed. The car will now build boost. I didn't go over 20 but it leaks down at a decent rate. I notice the leak is coming from the TPS area. I prob have a bad O-ring in there. I can sometimes get the car to start and idle but i have to feather the throttle to get it to rev up. I haven't been able to set the timing via the CAS because I still have to get the car to run decent first.

When I'm turning the CAS to sorta time it by ear, do I have to have the ECU pin grounded for the timing or will it change the timing on the fly and reset when the car is turned off? Does it change the timing and then default back right away?