50 trim not that fast. please bring some ideas.

[97gstnick]

The g tech reads three to five usually higher mph than track. So 108 is like 105 to 103.pretty lame since a good 50 trim should be able to do 120 or more mph.
My car with a 50 trim was also very slow with very poor mph.It was simply the stock clutch slipped horrible. If you are seeing 20psi at the boost gauge then you could have leaks if you can't hold the 20 but it is getting there if you are seeing it.

I am not going to read thru this whole thread but unless you have no compressioin in your engine which I would check or have knock retard so bad its taking away all your timing then the 50 trim should run like a raped ape! Its not rocket science.
Your mph is very low. Mph is not very dependent on launch and shows true power.

You have one of these problems..
Bad compression hurting engine.
You could have boost leak if you can't hold the boost.
Shot clutch.
Knock retard off the scale.
Thats about it.
And even with a bit lower compression as my engine had 150,000 miles on it when had a 50 trim on there it still got decently fast but that clutch was really killing it. I had smic also that would heat soak but that took a few runs.

My car ran very erratic but usually low mph and low et..not much faster than my 14b did.
But when the clutch wasn't slipping it did freaking fly.
Of course my 97 is a rocket ride but its got a new clutch not messing around this time.

A pooched turbo will not boost either but then you should be seeing low boost. My 14b on my 91 laser was shot.It would only do 10psi no matter where I set the boost controller.
It was shot...cracks in exhaust housing,it was hitting the side of the compressor housing it was pooched.Got another 14 b and instant boost again.

There were issues with the turbonetics turbos the RS60TS had a lot of lemons.I stick to garette myself.I would think a 50 trim should do 113 or so on a g tech at 20psi. and 120 plus at 30 pounds.

nah its not the clutch. im pretty sure it either slips or it doesnt. not like a halfway thing.
i did overheat my car a few times where it warped the head and a little oil came out onto the tranny. but i checked compression a while back and it was good. im idle is also 20 at 850rpm.

 

[97gstnick]

i know its also hurting with having a 3inch pipe going the the bottle neck stock tb elbow.

 

[AL92]

2.5 inch intercooler pipes are plenty huge enough for big big hp. And a tb elbow don't mean nothing the 2g elbow is already not bad.
Do you have stock cat..it could easily be clogged? Do you have stock exhaust..I have a 3 inch downpipe on my 91 fwd turbo since my flex section went and it was cheap to buy one off ebay.I have stock after that with no cat.The stock muffler and pipes are a huge restriction on that car even with a 14b never mind a 50 trim. I had the RS49 garett and it was a screamer.
What clutch do you have ? A 2600? don't see a clutch in your sig.If its a stock clutch you have your answer! They will slip a bit past 250 hp or so. They don't slip all the time mostly when your try to launch hard and you lose mph up top big time.
They can be a bit subtle.
If you have a new 2600 then it can't be that. You have fuel support more than enough I had 650s and you have reg and fuel pump and tuning.
If your compression is good you should be fast as heck.Even a dsm base chip setting should be plenty fast.
Are you seeing tons of knock...? Are you running regular fuel?

 

[CanadianTSi]

you have cams and an intake manifold. that helps a lot.

Stock cams and IM I went 112mph on 20psi and a terrible tune with a boost leak.

Stock TB Elbow for all runs also...

 

[97gstnick]

2.5 inch intercooler pipes are plenty huge enough for big big hp. And a tb elbow don't mean nothing the 2g elbow is already not bad.
Do you have stock cat..it could easily be clogged? Do you have stock exhaust..I have a 3 inch downpipe on my 91 fwd turbo since my flex section went and it was cheap to buy one off ebay.I have stock after that with no cat.The stock muffler and pipes are a huge restriction on that car even with a 14b never mind a 50 trim. I had the RS49 garett and it was a screamer.
What clutch do you have ? A 2600? don't see a clutch in your sig.If its a stock clutch you have your answer! They will slip a bit past 250 hp or so. They don't slip all the time mostly when your try to launch hard and you lose mph up top big time.
They can be a bit subtle.
If you have a new 2600 then it can't be that. You have fuel support more than enough I had 650s and you have reg and fuel pump and tuning.
If your compression is good you should be fast as heck.Even a dsm base chip setting should be plenty fast.
Are you seeing tons of knock...? Are you running regular fuel?

yes i am on the stock clutch. my car feels strong as hell in second, third gear is kinda ....eh..

 

[AL92]

Ok have to put this nicely..My stock 2g clutch barely held back to back runs at stock boost with a t25.No way in hell is it going to even slightly hold your 50 trim rs49 at 20psi.I never had my car at 20psi since had stock sidemount and it slipped awful.
You say it isn't slipping fine..do three or four hard launches like 4000 or 5000.!
Now sorry don't mean to hurt your feeling here but go out and buy a clutch..2600 is fine.and then come back and post how your 50 trim is a freakin rocketship.

And you have how many miles on that stock clutch ?
Seriously.ITS YOUR CLUTCH!!! AND YES I AM SHOUTING!!
My RS49 in my 92 talon was seriously held back by the stock clutch too.I bought a 2600 but never installed it sold the car and put it back to stock.
I also bought a big fmic but never installed it.
All your mph is going away to clutch slippage.I predict you will be lucky to get a 14.0 at the track at 20psi and your mph will get worse and worse as you make a few runs at any kind of decent launch. And you should hear it rev on the launch up and go nowhere.
The stock clutch is rated for like just over 200hp!

 

[97gstnick]

Ok have to put this nicely..My stock 2g clutch barely held back to back runs at stock boost with a t25.No way in hell is it going to even slightly hold your 50 trim rs49 at 20psi.I never had my car at 20psi since had stock sidemount and it slipped awful.
You say it isn't slipping fine..do three or four hard launches like 4000 or 5000.!
Now sorry don't mean to hurt your feeling here but go out and buy a clutch..2600 is fine.and then come back and post how your 50 trim is a freakin rocketship.

And you have how many miles on that stock clutch ?
Seriously.ITS YOUR CLUTCH!!! AND YES I AM SHOUTING!!
My RS49 in my 92 talon was seriously held back by the stock clutch too.I bought a 2600 but never installed it sold the car and put it back to stock.
I also bought a big fmic but never installed it.
All your mph is going away to clutch slippage.I predict you will be lucky to get a 14.0 at the track at 20psi and your mph will get worse and worse as you make a few runs at any kind of decent launch. And you should hear it rev on the launch up and go nowhere.
The stock clutch is rated for like just over 200hp!

dude, you are makin me think a little... it is true, i kept trappin slower and slower and i couldnt break a 14.4. but i dont see how the clutch is holding me back because i have never felt it slip. and it pulls pretty hard. i dont know how many miles are on it but it is a few years old.

 

[daren_p]

AL92 you have to remember he's fwd, not Awd. That makes a huge difference on the power they can hold. In a stock tranny fwd (ie no lsd) the tires slip, so the clutch doesn't take the beating of an awd. You should be able to feel when the clutch is slipping, with that being said, a clutch should probably on your list of things to get if your still running the stocker. Even with fwd being much easier on it, it can only last so long at the power you should be making.

As for the Gtech being about 5 mph low on my 108 mph, I don't think it is. This was on an evoIII not a 50 trim, I was just giving a reference in that his 103 trap was much too low. I have played around with c5 vettes that trap at 108 mph and I pull from them from a roll.

 

[PRESSURIZED]

AL92 you have to remember he's fwd, not Awd. That makes a huge difference on the power they can hold. In a stock tranny fwd (ie no lsd) the tires slip, so the clutch doesn't take the beating of an awd. You should be able to feel when the clutch is slipping, with that being said, a clutch should probably on your list of things to get if your still running the stocker. Even with fwd being much easier on it, it can only last so long at the power you should be making.

As for the Gtech being about 5 mph low on my 108 mph, I don't think it is. This was on an evoIII not a 50 trim, I was just giving a reference in that his 103 trap was much too low. I have played around with c5 vettes that trap at 108 mph and I pull from them from a roll.

You may be dissapointed when I say this but I have PROVEN the GTECH to be off roughly 4-6mph in the 1/4 mile at the track. Numerous times, over and over again. The E.T's are there but the Trap speeds, no way. Actually it's more like 6mph. When I had my laser I clocked many, many, like hundreds of 13.6@112mph on the Gtech and ran consistant 13.6@106mph at the track.

The Gtech is a great tool for E.T's and comparison tests as it was pretty dead on there but as far as trap speeds, the gtech and the actual track calculate that very differently.

Sorry to burst your bubble but I guarantee that if you went to the track with your gtech your results in mph will be very different.

 

[97gstnick]

dammit. a busted water hose might prevent me from running tonight. hopefully i can find one and replace it in time. if not thats cool, ill just fix it and tweak some things and run tomorrow possibly.

 

[DSM90AWD]

dammit. a busted water hose might prevent me from running tonight. hopefully i can find one and replace it in time. if not thats cool, ill just fix it and tweak some things and run tomorrow possibly.

Do yourself a favor and replace all the coolant hoses (FAIV, Radiator and Heater Core) at the same time. May also want to flush the cooling system and replace the radiator cap if still original

 

[97gstnick]

yea that would be a good idea. i run water and 1 bottle of water wetter.
i need to do another compression test because i have overheated my motor a few times and it warped the head. the reason i say that is because oil came out of the side and when on the tranny. i dont see how i still have a 20 inhg idle.

 

[daren_p]

You may be dissapointed when I say this but I have PROVEN the GTECH to be off roughly 4-6mph in the 1/4 mile at the track. Numerous times, over and over again. The E.T's are there but the Trap speeds, no way. Actually it's more like 6mph. When I had my laser I clocked many, many, like hundreds of 13.6@112mph on the Gtech and ran consistant 13.6@106mph at the track.

The Gtech is a great tool for E.T's and comparison tests as it was pretty dead on there but as far as trap speeds, the gtech and the actual track calculate that very differently.

Sorry to burst your bubble but I guarantee that if you went to the track with your gtech your results in mph will be very different.

Well I guess I won't really know till I go to the track, but if I'm pulling away from cars on a roll that do actually trap ~108 mph, wouldnt common sense say that I am atleast trapping that? I have also driven cars that do trap low 100's at the track & they pull no wears close to my car.

 

[DSM90AWD]

i need to do another compression test because i have overheated my motor a few times and it warped the head. the reason i say that is because oil came out of the side and when on the tranny. i dont see how i still have a 20 inhg idle.

Did you service the head/headgasket after you overheated? Obviously things like this woudl not self-heal

 

[97gstnick]

Did you service the head/headgasket after you overheated? Obviously things like this woudl not self-heal

no sir i have not. im thinking about getting that new copper head gasket from ffwdconnection.com. anyone using this or have any reason not to?

 

[DSM90AWD]

no sir i have not

I'd highly suspect that your poor performance is related to this. Compression test/leakdown tests would tell you for sure. I note that you recently blew a coolant line. That could be an indicator of a problem. As would excess consumption of oil or coolant.

im thinking about getting that new copper head gasket from ffwdconnection.com. anyone using this or have any reason not to?

I assume you mean the SCE ICS Titan? If so may want to read this THREAD as many people have found out the hard way that it's not the miracle gasket they thought it was

 

[blcknspo0ln]

21 psi on a 50 trim, why would you need more than ARP's and a mitsu composite HG? DSM90AWD is right, perform your leakdown/compression tests to verify that you're still good across the board. There's no need to run a copper or MLS HG until you're running heavy boost.

 

[AL92]

Once again my 1g and 2g clutches would not hold much more than a stock turbo pushed up near max..My current 1g fwd clutch is also not good enough even for a 14b boosted up a bit.
He could have low compression but usually you would have symptoms..you blow a head gasket you will have white smoke.bad looking plugs,bad looking oil or coolant.
Unless he is firing on 3 cylinders I am putting all my money on his clutch!

Put in a 2600 and get your mph back!!

 

[97gstnick]

Once again my 1g and 2g clutches would not hold much more than a stock turbo pushed up near max..My current 1g fwd clutch is also not good enough even for a 14b boosted up a bit.
He could have low compression but usually you would have symptoms..you blow a head gasket you will have white smoke.bad looking plugs,bad looking oil or coolant.
Unless he is firing on 3 cylinders I am putting all my money on his clutch!

Put in a 2600 and get your mph back!!

dude, i wish you were right

 

[PRESSURIZED]

dude, i wish you were right

I can also vouch for the whole clutch thing.

I felt that my clutch was not holding because it would not burn my tires out anymore when I slammed second or third but after some thought I changed it anyway.

HUGH difference......it was amaziing...it woke my car back up!

And I ordered the XTD clutch Stage 3 for $157 shipped and it has stock pedal pressure but holds like a beast!

XTD= recommended

-Mike

 

[daren_p]

Well the stocker won't last long on the 50 trim with that kind of boost & should be on the things to do list, but like I said he should be able to tell its slipping. I ran my stocker with my evoIII @ 18 psi for one summer (6 months) and it held fine, no slipping. Now I didn't beat on it by doing 5000 rpm dumps off the line but I defently didn't baby it. With that being said, when I swapped the clutch out this spring it had just over 40K on it and was worn even with the rivits on both sides, but still didn't slip.

 

[AL92]

Hmm well to get a decent et you need to launch the car up high but being fwd wheelspin is huge issue unless you are on drag tires best I can get on my fwd is 2.4 and that took a lot of practicing. most runs were like 2.8!

Now unless he has a massive boost leak or low compression the 50 trim has to put out the power and numbers unless he is super rich or knocking like crazy from super lean.

If the boost is there and the compression is there and the fuel and tuning is decently there then only the clutch could stop the power from getting to the ground.

Clutch slip at higher rpm can be a bit more subtle. Off the line its pretty easy to tell my 50 trim RS49 would rev to the moon off the line and the car would just sit there like it was in neutral. It only got a decent mph once in awhile most of time it was around the times of a 14b at around 100 mph !

If he is holding boost and not knocking and is not stupid rich and his compression test comes out ok then the clutch is only thing left.

I made sure to install an new high perf clutch at same time as engine build and all my other mods in my current 97. And I can assure you that it hauls ass even at 10psi break in level and is easily way faster than my 92 ever was. Slipping clutch and sidemount on my 92 made a powerful 50 trim RS49 into a slow mph slug.But it felt pretty fast sometimes.How can a stock clutch with maybe 200ft pounds of holding power work on a 400 plus engine 50 Trim..it can't hold it..no f##king way. Put a 2600 in your car and report back! Betting you get over 110mph easy.Now smim and cams will for sure add like mabye 8 mph also. But 110 should be easy with current combo.

 

[97gstnick]

Hmm well to get a decent et you need to launch the car up high but being fwd wheelspin is huge issue unless you are on drag tires best I can get on my fwd is 2.4 and that took a lot of practicing. most runs were like 2.8!

Now unless he has a massive boost leak or low compression the 50 trim has to put out the power and numbers unless he is super rich or knocking like crazy from super lean.

If the boost is there and the compression is there and the fuel and tuning is decently there then only the clutch could stop the power from getting to the ground.

Clutch slip at higher rpm can be a bit more subtle. Off the line its pretty easy to tell my 50 trim RS49 would rev to the moon off the line and the car would just sit there like it was in neutral. It only got a decent mph once in awhile most of time it was around the times of a 14b at around 100 mph !

If he is holding boost and not knocking and is not stupid rich and his compression test comes out ok then the clutch is only thing left.

I made sure to install an new high perf clutch at same time as engine build and all my other mods in my current 97. And I can assure you that it hauls ass even at 10psi break in level and is easily way faster than my 92 ever was. Slipping clutch and sidemount on my 92 made a powerful 50 trim RS49 into a slow mph slug.But it felt pretty fast sometimes.How can a stock clutch with maybe 200ft pounds of holding power work on a 400 plus engine 50 Trim..it can't hold it..no f##king way. Put a 2600 in your car and report back! Betting you get over 110mph easy.Now smim and cams will for sure add like mabye 8 mph also. But 110 should be easy with current combo.

well i plan on a compression test, boost leak test and recheck my tune and i'll take it from there. i wish it was the clutch but we will see. i just dont think it is because i cant feel or notice it slipping.

 

[AL92]

Good idea to check that other stuff no harm in that. Compression would have to be pretty darn low to take away that much power and likely if it was you would be burning oil out the back big time.
A boost leak should show up on the gauge it should not be able to get to your target boost or not hold it. Tune would also have to be way out with lots of knock retard to take away over 100 estimated horses you are down.

But of course curious to see what you get in the tests. Once again if you feel the clutch holds then simply borrow some drag tires and launch it hard at like 5000rpm.
It can't hold.My fwd clutch can't even hold the 14b at higher rpm in back to back launches.

Good luck anyway you will love the 50 trim once you sort it out..also are you sure the turbo is ok..there were a lot of rs49 t failures...think agp is not even selling rs49s or any dsm turbos anymore not sure why.My RS49 kicked butt.!

 

[97gstnick]

Good idea to check that other stuff no harm in that. Compression would have to be pretty darn low to take away that much power and likely if it was you would be burning oil out the back big time.
A boost leak should show up on the gauge it should not be able to get to your target boost or not hold it. Tune would also have to be way out with lots of knock retard to take away over 100 estimated horses you are down.

But of course curious to see what you get in the tests. Once again if you feel the clutch holds then simply borrow some drag tires and launch it hard at like 5000rpm.
It can't hold.My fwd clutch can't even hold the 14b at higher rpm in back to back launches.

Good luck anyway you will love the 50 trim once you sort it out..also are you sure the turbo is ok..there were a lot of rs49 t failures...think agp is not even selling rs49s or any dsm turbos anymore not sure why.My RS49 kicked butt.!

everything you say makes a lot of sense. but yea it is a good idea that i check everything first. thanks for the help