450awd H.P. Best Tuning Tool Help !!!

[toofast82]

You can hook up the maft gen 2 to a labtop to log. If you have the wideband tracking activated you can log afrs in the run to tune with.

I do my own eprom editing, but im surprised gen2 doesnt get more love from the dsms. It has much more capabilites than safc for very similar price. Although it will probably have a hard time controlling injectors larger than 650cc as well but would work great with a custom eprom

 

[jrohner]

dsmlink.

It's worth much more than they charge for it.

How, when there are cheaper options that can do at least as much? And don't say the forums because who in their right mind would pay 400-500 extra bucks for the forum? I like this forum but I wouldn't pay to be on it. Plus the dsmlink wiki has quite a bit of useful info and it's free to see. It gets really crazy price wise if you don't already have the EPROM ECU in your car. That extra money would be well spend on something else.

The clear way to go on a 2G is either EPROM tuning with a 95 EPROM ECU or ECUFlash and an Evo 8 ECU.

 

[BkzProblem]

Just having a certain size injector doesn't give you more hp. Read his profile, it says what he's got. You have to see the chart though because the peak hp number doesn't mean much. The MAFT Pro is the one you can hook a laptop to.

i never said it does, but people usually size their injectors according to their h.p. levels and boost levels... i just thought that his injector size was a bit overkill thats all.. and sorry i didnt get 2 read his profile because i was posting from my phone but im on my comp now so i can see it...

 

[dsmmatt28]

I do my own eprom editing, but im surprised gen2 doesnt get more love from the dsms. It has much more capabilites than safc for very similar price. Although it will probably have a hard time controlling injectors larger than 650cc as well but would work great with a custom eprom

Yes you are correct. If you have a eprom chip that is compensated for the injector size than you are set to go. I let the maft gen 2 translate the gm maf and have it set for my afr tracking and I adjust the maft gen 2 to compensate for each rpm point where need be. Did I mention that you can control timing with it. You have to contact Jeff at Keydiver for the programing into the chip. Its a 25$ option that is not mention in his website.

 

[jrohner]

i never said it does, but people usually size their injectors according to their h.p. levels and boost levels... i just thought that his injector size was a bit overkill thats all.. and sorry i didnt get 2 read his profile because i was posting from my phone but im on my comp now so i can see it...

Usually bigger injectors don't cost much more, so you might as well have some headroom. 850's would probably do, depending on his tune, but then if he gets any more out of it it would be time for new injectors.

 

[toofast82]

Yes you are correct. If you have a eprom chip that is compensated for the injector size than you are set to go. I let the maft gen 2 translate the gm maf and have it set for my afr tracking and I adjust the maft gen 2 to compensate for each rpm point where need be. Did I mention that you can control timing with it. You have to contact Jeff at Keydiver for the programing into the chip. Its a 25$ option that is not mention in his website.

I looked into the gen2 awhile back and the guy at fullthrottle told me that there is a download for it that will eliminate the need for the keydiver chip for timing. I searched their forums and never came up with it? Ive heard of 3sx users doing it without chips

 

[twdorris]

I can do basic tuning and like to be in control of what im doing... What do you guys think???

Well, here's my take on the situation. If you want control over things yourself, you're going to want ECMLink over something like a gen2. You'll have *direct* control over fuel, timing and airflow. If you're wanting to run on speed density, just give us a few more weeks and we'll have an announcement to make on that (hint, my car is running on SD now)... But you'll get SOOO much more functionality with ECMLink over a gen2, I'm just not sure where to start. Much better logging, much better support, much more features and functions.

Yes, unfortunately you'll need an EPROM ECU. But you'll need that with the custom chip tuning stuff too. If you enjoy piecing together various parts and using different applications to do different things, then the DIY solutions are certainly viable options. But you're going to spend some time (and money) pulling the pieces together and making them work. With ECMLink, you're going to drop it in, connect our cable to the diagnostic port and fire it up.

Yes, we have to charge for it. It's just a fact of life. We have four people here now. With salaries, office lease, grounds maintenance, insurance, advertising, etc., etc., we have to charge for it. In exchange you're getting 10+ years of experience behind our products and nearly 24x7 support. If anyone thinks we're getting rich here, they need a reality check.

We recently released a non-EPROM conversion for the 1G ECUs because the 1G EPROM ECUs were getting harder and harder to find and when people found them, they were getting gouged on pricing. We offer repair services (which barely make any money) to keep these ECUs going strong. We're offering EPROM ECUs to our customers at barely break-even costs. We only charge what we have to charge to keep going and doing what we love.

We're also constantly innovating products for the very platform you're running. It's just a natural match over something like a generic standalone that you'll need to spend a good chunk of time configuring and tweaking, IMO.

In the works is full time speed density support (since SOOO many people seem to want to run this), 2-stage injector control (so you can run dual banks of injectors), an injector driver box, switchable maps, custom output logic, etc., etc. We have guys running 8s with ECMLink and we have guys running bone stock cars. It's going to be flexible enough to do anything you're looking to do. Drop me an e-mail sometime if you want to chat more about it.

[email protected]

Thomas Dorris
ECMTuning, Inc.

 

[dsmmatt28]

I looked into the gen2 awhile back and the guy at fullthrottle told me that there is a download for it that will eliminate the need for the keydiver chip for timing. I searched their forums and never came up with it? Ive heard of 3sx users doing it without chips

Im nt sure about that one. I belive that Jeff use the Baro signal since Im running the Gm maf. The Maft Gen 2 wire is hooked to the Baro wire down by the ecu. So since that wire is not being used by the ecu anymore cause im running the Gm maf and it doesnt have a Baro sensor Jeff uses it to control timing. The maft has a setting that says spark advance v2 out that v2 wire it is conected to the baro wire. The gen 2 starts at 15* for every degree of timing you add past 15 is really one degree. For example. If your running 14* of timing and your gen2 is set at 15 and you go and add 3* of timing. The Gen 2 will read 18 degrees. But really if you look on the logger it will read 17* casue you added 3*. 15 is really 0 and 18* is really 3*

 

[LucasEnglish]

Well lots of options.

I would take a link any day over AEM or any stand alone. The knock control on the factory stuff is 10x better. If you have a full race car ware you a flipping pumps,staged injectors,data logging fuel pressure oil pressure and stuff like that then you need a stand alone. (my 522whp stock Trubo EVO, 1117whp EVO and Jeffs 961whp 1g all do run on AEM that I tune so I know AEM well)

Also the link is something the avg person can figure out and run with. A AEM or most stand alones take quite a long time to figure out and the chances of hurting the motor are much higher. Our 620whp 3065 1g is just a MAFT link combo.

The chip burring is a good option if you are on your geek game but may be kinda frustrating for a guy who is really not into computers.

The MAFT works great in dry race day conditions but can be very problematic when rainy and cold (in blow through)

The biggest problem with the Pro or MAFT on stock ECU (in a 2g) is you dont get good tuning feed back (knock being the biggest) I have tuned quite a few stock ECU pro and MAFT combos tuning via pocket logger and it is quite a game looking at timing trying to decide if its pulling or not.

 

[e85_4g63]

There are only 4 choices for engine management as far as I'm concerned. MoTec, AEM EMS, DS-Map, and ECMLink (aka DSMLink). Now the cheapest would be DS-Map, Followed closely by ECMLink. MoTec and AEM are $1000+. No matter which EMS (engine mang. system) you choose, you'll still want a wideband to accompany it. If money we're not an option MoTec or AEM hands down. Since we're all DSMer's () money is important. Sorry for rambling on, my 2 cents: DS-Map. To run DS-Map you'll need the following:

DS-Map software (v2 is free)
Moates Ostrich (for real time changes) $175
GM IAT (summit racing ~ MSD 2320) $21
GM 3 Bar MAP Sensor (summit racing ~ MSD 2313) $82
Eprom ECU (socketed), Wideband o2, Laptop <-- (Didn't include prices because you'll need these for ECMLink as well.

Of course, Tom makes a good point (ECMLink guru), as Link will be supporting SD soon also! (Only down fall I see with the Link SD setup so far is it's $600 if you don't have v2 already. Other then that it seems really really great! (No disrespect, I used to have Link v2 before I went to SD with DS-Map)

 

[tkelly27]

DSMap doesn't work for 2G's. It's the only thing I'd consider for a 1G, but 2G's aren't supported.

A lot of people have given a lot of good advice, and you need to make your own decisions. Here are some other things to consider:

The same ECU that you need to put a socket into for the ECMlink can also be made to run a chip from Keydiver, and your own custom chip from a stock base map.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-tuning-ecu/258831-2g-eprom-tuning.html

It's very rewarding to run your own code and do your own tune. It can also be frustrating. The $100 ostrich, or keydiver chip can be resold if you plan on going with 'Link if it fails. If you have a professional socket your ECU your risk of engine damage is the same as the 'Link.

Link comes with a logging system, which must be factored into the cost of a chip or anything else you decide to go with except stand alone.

The only real difficulty with a stand alone is getting a base spark and fuel map down. After that it's all the same.

If want to jump right into tuning, go with the 'Link. It will cost you more, but it is plug and play and more than powerful enough for most any application.

 

[e85_4g63]

"tkelly27" thanks for pointing out the 2g thing. After checking (for some reason I thought the OP had a 92 tsi not a 95) over the original post, I would recommend ECMLink

 

[mike96]

i am running an EVO8 ecu with ecuflash, EVO 560 injectors. and a MAFT gen2 and it is working pretty well. aside from little annoyances like CEL for rear O2 ans things like boost creep i am happy with it. i haven't gotten it on the dyno yet and wont until i get the creep fixed. it gets a little lean sometimes depending on outside temp, around 20 psi'ish i max out the injector duty cycle other than that i should be able to push the 300hp mark with my setup. also with the EVO8 ecu there are a lot of people doing work to implement other tuning methods, there are a few people on evolutionm.net that are successfully running speed density from the stock ecu. evo8 ecu cost $125 and a tuning cable cost $100

my other option would be Dsmlink v3. little bit more expensive but it was meant for a 2g eclipse so it is a drop in and with v3 now you don't need a MAFT, you can run a GM maf sensor straight to the ecu. so that will save you the $280 for the translator. also i have herd they are currently working on speed density for DSMlink as well.

my question is do you need to worry about emissions? i was originally was going to go mega-squirt but didn't feel like switching out everything to go get it tested every year, or feel like paying someone to pass it. which i may end up having to do anyway....

 

[BkzProblem]

Thanks guys... Well i originally wanted to go with the maftpro because it would allow me to vent and use speed density tuning... But as i read along, dwdorris said that with ecm link "In the works is full time speed density support (since SOOO many people seem to want to run this), 2-stage injector control (so you can run dual banks of injectors), an injector driver box, switchable maps, custom output logic, etc., etc. We have guys running 8s with ECMLink and we have guys running bone stock cars. It's going to be flexible enough to do anything you're looking to do." I might just go with ecm link...

 

[MY1GDSM]

If your Really wanting to run Speed density I would take in to account that ECMlink has not even came out with there version of speed density, so it maybe hit or mis unless you plan on being someone that "blazes the path" figuring it all out yourself....I have no Idea what there reason for not releasing it with V3 is but I would just keep it in your mind that nobody besides the creators have run it...
I run MAf-Pro my self in SD,so I guess I maybe be biased saying to go that route,But Maf-pro has been around for quite awhile...

 

[toofast82]

My friend uses Maftpro with the speed density in his GN and loves it. But they really dont have something like dsmlink and all standalones are $1k+
DsMap is awesome but remember he has a 2g

 

[LucasEnglish]

Just tuned 2 version 3 links with the GM Maf and no translator and I must say they really have a great setup for the MAf Blow through. Both cars were pre setup with injectors settings for MAF when ordered. The cars ran real good right out of the box. Mainly just fine tuning. This is pretty cool for most DSM products. Most of the time with pro's, MAFT S-AFC you have to do a ton of tuning to even get them to drive right.

 

[bling5tatus]

A few wiring harness shenanigans would allow one to use a 1g turbo ecu in a 2g car.... not a bad idea IMO... but if I had a 2g, I would go for the evo8 ecu... that's the real money right there.

 

[toofast82]

You can use tunerpro with the 2g eprom for injector comp and fuel/timing control if youre on a budget, which will get the job done. There is just not all the special stuff thats been found for 1g

 

[bling5tatus]

Well... there is a lot of similarities though... check out Ceddy&#39;s Lair if you're a 2g guy looking into doing your own stuff the cheap way.

 

[toofast82]

yes i have been told there are many similarities with codes between 1g and 2g. Like stutterbox from what ive heard. I do think people are working on all this good stuff for the 2g and in the future it will be as plentiful as 1g code.