420a turbo or n/a? help please

[lilredeclipse]

so im new to the dsm game and just purchased my first eclipse. its a 97 gs with the bone stock 420a. now i seen that there was one other thread about the 420a turbo, but only 1 reply. i have been looking at parts online, and theres not much out there for building it n/a like i did with my last neon, from what i have seen, most parts are for the 4g63t. i just want to know if its more plausible to build a turbo 420a then a n/a. and im just looking for some feedback from people that know what they are talking about. anything will help. thanks alot

 

[brandonwh64]

Personally, comming from another N/T owner I personally would sell and pickup a 1G or 2G with a 4g63T in it and that would save you ALOT of money in the long run. I picked up a turbo for mine but got to thinking about it and after running around 8 PSI i would only net about the same HP as a stock 4g63T

 

[AK Maniak]

My first car was a 98 RS and I quickly learned that your much better off buying a turbo DSM. With that being said a 420a makes for a great good looking DD.

 

[Xtreme Legion]

I'm building my 420a to be N/A with ITBs. I have done a/c n power steering delete which frees up about 25-30 HP. Also after removing all the hardware probably like a 30+ lbs weight reduction. It all depends on what you are looking for.

To properly Turbo your 420a u are looking at pistons/cams /valves n springs / and then everything you need for Turbo. If you just Turbo 420a block stock your bound to break something.

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[Maverick4g63]

I'm building my 420a to be N/A with ITBs. I have done a/c n power steering delete which frees up about 25-30 HP. Also after removing all the hardware probably like a 30+ lbs weight reduction. It all depends on what you are looking for.

To properly Turbo your 420a u are looking at pistons/cams /valves n springs / and then everything you need for Turbo. If you just Turbo 420a block stock your bound to break something.

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Really? 25 to 30 horsepower? Have you calibrated your butt dyno recently? I suspect it may be off by 80-90%.

 

[tuxdreamerx]

Really? 25 to 30 horsepower? Have you calibrated your butt dyno recently? I suspect it may be off by 80-90%.

Yeah I did that delete on my rs turbo and it made the car more uncomftorable than it was worth and id say it only frees up 5-15hp. It probably frees up more torque than anything else.

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[tjskywalker328]

if you wanna make good power with the 420a u will definately have put some good internals in you can turbo the stock block but wouldnt reccomend any more than like 8-9 psi. That would be just asking for problems.

 

[Maverick4g63]

Considering the most powerful naturally aspirated 420a here makes a pitiful 200 horses, its build for turbo or leave it alone.

 

[Xtreme Legion]

Yea I did deletes an building separate 420a block. 030 over and going to build head up proper to Turbo. Don't get me wrong forced induction all the way. Just not spending money on DD block. Once I drop that engine in its on to build DD up.

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[Shake_Zulla]

Bullettdsm aka Mark has a pretty fast N/A. He's pushing 218whp and running low 13's but it's a ton of work to get there. Most people who go N/A are doing it for the chalange not because they want a fast car. Turbo is going to be the best way to get the most bang for your buck and it is not cheap. Take a look at this...
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420a-turbo-conversion/366603-end-all-parts-list-go-turbo.html

Now this is to get to 8psi and that is where you will have to stay untill you rebuild the block. Take a look at this...

2GNT.com - Power_Stages

Now if this seems like too much work then maybe think about picking up a gst or gsx but if you are like me and others on this forum and like to work on cars and the challange of building your own beast then go for it Good luck.

 

[Rst303]

Please do not let everyone tell you to sell your car and get a turbo 4g63t its what u decide to do everyone use to tell me the same and i went turbo honestly i thought n/a was the way to go but it gets old and theres just not enough power trust me you will get bored going turbo was the best thing i ever did or you can take a better option buy my car i have to many cars 420A built grp aluminum rod engine turbo but please dont let people tell u to go 4g63t

 

[TSi Kid]

Please do not let everyone tell you to sell your car and get a turbo 4g63t its what u decide to do everyone use to tell me the same and i went turbo honestly i thought n/a was the way to go but it gets old and theres just not enough power trust me you will get bored going turbo was the best thing i ever did or you can take a better option buy my car i have to many cars 420A built grp aluminum rod engine turbo but please dont let people tell u to go 4g63t

Guessing from how he states his post, no offense to the OP, but he does not sound "mechanically inclined" enough for him to take on the work of boosting a 420a. I was in the exact same boat you were when I bought my first car and if you ever want to make some decent power without spending a couple grand then you should honestly sell your car. If you want to take on the challenge more power to you but the 420a wasn't meant to be boosted and you're in for a project. Have fun with that 8psi

 

[Fotowntalon]

So much FAIL in this thread, oh where to begin....

now i seen that there was one other thread about the 420a turbo, but only 1 reply.

REALLY? There is a whole section about turbocharging the 420a, as well as like 3 threads posted in the past week about it... don't take my word for it

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i just want to know if its more plausible to build a turbo 420a then a n/a. and im just looking for some feedback from people that know what they are talking about.

What the hell do you mean by plausible? Whats a good DD? At what horsepower? Would you like to ask a more vague question?

anything will help. thanks alot

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Also to some former 420a members, you are not above the rules, what am I referring to? "We've had some trouble in the past with owners of factory turbocharged DSMs coming into these forums and advising N/T DSM owners to sell their cars and buy a turbocharged car. That is not to happen anymore. "

Alright what other ridiculous do we have here?

I have done a/c n power steering delete which frees up about 25-30 HP. .

I want to flame this, but it trolls itself.

To properly Turbo your 420a you** are looking at pistons/cams /valves n springs / and then everything you need for Turbo. If you just Turbo 420a block stock your bound to break something.

False, a healthy stock block can safely handle 8-10psi if properly tuned, anymore than that and you will need to build up.

Yeah I did that delete on my rs turbo and it made the car more uncomfortable

Very possible, thats why I would recommend much consideration before doing the delete.

id say it only frees up 5-15hp. It probably frees up more torque than anything else.

You guys do know there is another thread for bench racing right? We can probably start one for unrealistic claims as well.

Considering the most powerful naturally aspirated 420a here makes a pitiful 200 horses, its build for turbo or leave it alone.

Disagree here as well. Yes most powerful only making 200 horses (barely more than a stock GST/GSX) but the car will break 12's this year, how many 12s cars do you see with that small amount of HP? The 420a can clock some great times considering its power output. Also For a DD small mods on N/A isn't a horrid thing, depending on the OP's actual goals.

i went turbo honestly i thought n/a was the way to go but it gets old and theres just not enough power trust me you will get bored going turbo was the best thing i ever did

Debatable for everyone. But I will agree if you are looking for quick easy power than nitrous/turbo is the best route. I and many others find NA extremely fun, but its not the simple +50hp here and there, its the harder challenging path, and as RST303 pointed out, some do get bored with it.

Think I about covered it all...

 

[96 420a-t]

And he has spoken! I lost my power steering belt and hate it. As far as Turbo goes it is perfect for my goals because I am only shootling for 250 bhp. Turbo adds a lot of work and maintenance, not to mention it will push your engine to it limits.

 

[lilredeclipse]

okay well thanks. to most of you for your input. looks like fotowntalon just likes to argue? i searched like 3 times, and shit pops up after u click off of the title posting, there was one other thread like this, and it had 1 reply, i seen the build charts, and all that jazz but noone ever said "oh i think this way is better" or "this way is alot of work but worth it". and plausible means reasonable, more realistic, it was obviously asking which one people prefer. thanks for your input tho.

anyways. yea im not taking power steering out, that just rediculous, i broke my surp belt and drove with it off for 3 hours and was like i am never doin that, , but i am taking the ac off, it dont work anyways. and from all that im hearing about the 4g63t i might just keep my gs for a daily driver and eventually buy a gst oor gsx.

 

[Shake_Zulla]

okay well thanks. to most of you for your input. looks like fotowntalon just likes to argue? i searched like 3 times, and shit pops up after u click off of the title posting, there was one other thread like this, and it had 1 reply, i seen the build charts, and all that jazz but noone ever said "oh i think this way is better" or "this way is alot of work but worth it". and plausible means reasonable, more realistic, it was obviously asking which one people prefer. thanks for your input tho.

anyways. yea im not taking power steering out, that just rediculous, i broke my surp belt and drove with it off for 3 hours and was like i am never doin that, , but i am taking the ac off, it dont work anyways. and from all that im hearing about the 4g63t i might just keep my gs for a daily driver and eventually buy a gst oor gsx.

Don't worry about fotown he's a nice guy, someone might have pissed in his coffee today . The search is kinda hard to use but just mess around with it to avoid getting flamed. Also I have found that 80% of the time if you google your question then a link to this site will pop up. The best thing you can do for yourself is to do the research and decide for yourself what you want to do. Your going to have the die hard 420a guys telling you to go for it and the die hard 4g63 guys telling you to buy what they have so decide for yourself man and good luck

 

[lilredeclipse]

right well im thinking this winter im gunna buy a beater and pull this motor out, it has a couple leaks, so im gunna replace gaskets, and the oil pan, ### the retard that had it obviouslt never slowed down over speed bumps. but im going to make my final decision then, but as of right now im just gunna throw a header and exaust, and maybe a intake manifold on it just for cruising until the winter. but if i do decide to turbo it, it will get all tore down, new pistons and rods, cams and gears, rockers, valves, springs, and the heads getting port & polished. then comes the turbo, and FMIC, and all that jazz, but thats like $5000 in just parts. not counting my labor. ha but it will be worth it in the end fer sure, i still have plenty of time to figure out what i want to do, and thanks again for the help

 

[turboglenn]

turbo, with the trans gearing for NA, and boost behind it, on basic mods they turn out ot be a little quicket than a normal 2g turbo, jsut run out of top speed faster

 

[Fotowntalon]

Don't worry about fotown he's a nice guy, someone might have pissed in his coffee today .

Kind of, more of cracked because of the last 2 months how horrible our dsmtuners members have been(mainly the new 420a members). We have had literally had about 5 threads started on "what exhaust is best" within a week, and I am trying hard to stop more new members from doing this. Not to mention the countless hours wasted on helping others by doing leg work for them only for them to jump ship in a few months to 4g63. But now after getting through work, and ready to relax I will try to be more helpful.

You are still vague on "reasonable, more realistic, it was obviously asking which one people prefer" mainly because those things vary soooo much from person to person. Reasonable and realistic could be a 10s 2g 420a to the right person.

If you dont want to waste money, which I doubt you do, research research research. I did about 40 some hours+ of research on turboing the 420a when i first got my car, and 3 years later, I am still cruising down the NA path. There are countless people throwing tons of money at headers, and cold air intakes, and wanting to turbo there car

Give us a rough budget, a time frame to complete, mechanical skill (for this will help with the budget on what you can do), weekend warrior or dd, and what whp, 1/4 time you are shooting for and we can help you out much more.

 

[lilredeclipse]

well for now, i havr about 2000 to invest, and hopefully more once i get a better job. as i do more research i keep changing my mind back and forth. i might just stick n/a, and my mechanical skill is raising more and more each day. im not a master mechanic, but i know my way around an engine. and this wont be my dd once i start putting money into the engine, it will be my weekend sleeper like my neon was. i want to get into the 13s? maybe 190-200 bhp? its something to shoot for and if u=i can go more then that then i will but its just the starter goal...which i say isnt a far reach

 

[96 420a-t]

Don't worry fotown im gonna stick with the 420a for better or worse.

And 2k is plenty to go either way. What you need to do is RESEARCH the pros and cons of both setups and go for it. But please do some legwork and research. You might just learn yourself something.

 

[TSi Kid]

it will be my weekend sleeper like my neon was.

Aren't sleepers supposed to be fast

Glad to hear you're sticking with it though.

 

[AK Maniak]

fotown.

In my defense, the people that are asking whether they should turbo their 420a or build it up N/A should probably do neither. So telling him to just buy a turbo DSM is IMO not a bad suggestion at all.

well for now, i havr about 2000 to invest, and hopefully more once i get a better job. as i do more research i keep changing my mind back and forth. i might just stick n/a, and my mechanical skill is raising more and more each day. im not a master mechanic, but i know my way around an engine. and this wont be my dd once i start putting money into the engine, it will be my weekend sleeper like my neon was. i want to get into the 13s? maybe 190-200 bhp? its something to shoot for and if u=i can go more then that then i will but its just the starter goal...which i say isnt a far reach

Not trying to be a dick, but you will NOT break into 13's with only 2000 to invest. Just ask fotown how much work he put into his N/A build to be able to break into the 14's. IDK the exact number but there are only a handful of members that have done so (around 10 if i'm not mistaken), fotown being one of them.

 

[Fotowntalon]

My words were not just directed at you AK, and as I said, most frustrations have been with newer members.

As for 420a NA's DSMs being in the 14's I am the 4th ever, well 4th person, I am thinking MB has had 2 or 3. 13's as NA MB is the only one, soon to hit 12's, and 13's is my goal, but I have a lot of time and work invested. We should hopefully be having 2 new members breaking this barrier soon...

If you are looking for 200whp for 2grand, and quick times, I would suggest the turbo/nitrous method. Actually a 420a with a turbokit is quicker than a stock gst (granted in the end you are paying for car+turbo kit as opposed to just car).

As for the 4g63 vs 420a debate we can save for another time. I won't bash the 4g63 because it is an amazing engine, but I love the 420a, especially as a DD.

Also I love the sleeper aspect of the 420a, 90% of people will think it is garbage, and thats what you want for a sleeper. I know in my hometown I am the fastest 4cyclinder NA car here, not saying I have much competition, but I have been to a lot of meets. I ripped off the "E" of the "ESi" emblem on my car and had people asking me if i did a honduh swap. Getting off subject.

Point being for that hp and the power levels you want, go boost or nitrous. I plan on getting close to 200whp with a DD, but I live in the lax emission laws of Ohio, and will have much money, and work invested in my build, not that I want to discourage the NA build, but to be realistic, look at my whp, my time, and my mod list.

 

[bullettdsm]

now i seen that there was one other thread about the 420a turbo, but only 1 reply. i have been looking at parts online, and theres not much out there for building it n/a like i did with my last neon, from what i have seen,

This is an inane or lazy comment; take your pick. You're telling me that on this forum, in this 420a area, you could only find one thread with one post on deciding on 420a turbo or sticking NA? Ludicrous. This subject has been beaten to death beatentodeath:). This subject has been gone over so much that I rarely even comment on a thread like this (maybe this is the reason )

As for parts on line for the 420a power plant, there are tons. You should be aware (since you previously built your Neon), that the 420a and the Neon share basically the same interior powerplant parts. Looking for a few parts? Here are a few spots;

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclsuspension.htm
http://www.summitracing.com/
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/home.php
http://stores.ebay.com/domesticgask...57QQ_sidZ493876738QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322
http://howellautomotive.com/
http://www.raceeng.com/p-7072-valve-springmitsu-4g63.aspx
http://www.jepistons.com/
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/
http://www.frozenboost.com/product_...d=444&osCsid=2937dc590320a921f6cc3bf1718f07de
http://www.clutchcityonline.com/dodge_caravan.htm
http://www.campbellenterprises.com/neon-parts/neon-performance-parts-index.php
http://www.clutchnet.com/home.php
http://www.crower.com/
http://mitsubishi.gearboxmagazine.com/2010/09/fastest-all-motor-dsm-on-the-planet/
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1432931,parttype,1404
http://partsdinosaur.com/
http://www.crank-scrapers.com/Mitsubishi.html
http://www.jegs.com/
http://www.modernperformance.com/
http://cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&lvl=4&prt=2036&action=partSpec&partNumber=431-0016
http://www.moparpartsamerica.com/splash/index.cfm?siteid=214583
http://forums.neons.org/viewforum.php?f=107

These are just some of the links in my favorites

okay well thanks. to most of you for your input. looks like fotowntalon just likes to argue? i searched like 3 times,

I strongly disagree. Looks like fotowntalon is sick of fielding questions on this subject because it has been One of the reasons that there is a rule on here about NOT telling 420a owners to sell it and get a 4G63 is because this subject is brought up so much.

If you are only able to research out one thread with one reply on this subject, then you may want to re-think doing any modifications what-so-ever (and nobody pissed in my coffee, because I don't drink coffee ).

As for staying NA, I enjoyed it. I stuck it to many a DD 4g63 guy while I was NA. I got quite a bit of enjoyment from people asking me where I put the turbo. My fastest DD set-up ran 13.9's (FWIW, I'm currently at 219.4whp and playing with ITB set-ups now. And, as fotown alluded to, I have taken 3 cars into the 14's or lower). At that point, I turned her into full race. As a matter of fact, I enjoyed it so much, that I am currently looking to partout my 97 GSX 2.3 stroker (with a FP Green power adder), so that I can get another 420a. How's that for a Polish reversal?

But one note of opinion on staying NA; if you decide to stay NA, I would recommend that you get MSnS sooner rather than later. The biggest slug on our set-up is the stock ECU. That robs the most power and everything that you add-on or bolt-on is fighting the stock ECU.

MB