420a turbo dyno 486.1whp

[bullettdsm]

Well, I guess I've been busy. Took the 420a turbo to the dyno to see where she would land (Dyno Dynamics dyno at Dentsport in Norwood, Mass). Heres' the results;

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A little overall; I had a problem with the 3 bar map sensor. It would only go up to 24lbs , maybe defective but its what I had to work with. I also maxed out the injectors ending up going down to 92% (from 100%, ) on FIC850's.

I'm running 47psi for fuel, So, though I could bring it up, I'm thinking injectors would be a better upgrade.

We were blowing out spark all day long. Went down to .018 and still had break up. You could literally see it in the AFR's. You would see the blip in the curve for one cylinder blow out. BUT, I MAY have found the culprit. I was playing around with it today and, low and behold, an alternator belt came flying off! This dovetails nicely with the fact that I battery tended the battery before the dyno runs, and my tender never registered a full charge. That was unusual. I wonder if my alternator was not charging and that caused the break up.....

Also, I have a W/A system on there. I tried to use it as a daily, but Connecticut winter made that an impossibility. I ended up breaking the small front mount and water pump. So I was able to borrow a water pump not a front mount. This made for 150+ IAT's Not good.

So for 24lbs, on this set-up, on this dyno, I'm satisfied.

MB

Oh yeah, my mod list is located here; 2GNT.com - bullettdsm

 

[lo2210]

nice #s

 

[Locke]

Nice! Get it sorted out, Mark!

 

[96TurboGS]

Awesome!! I wish I could take my cars to a local dyno. I guess we can now see the NA run 12’s and the turbo to run low 10’s. I wonder what benefits you would see from the sequential code with those 10.5 pistons.

Is this the car your taking to the shootout or are you taking the NA?

As for the 150* temps, you wouldn’t happen to have the IAT sensor located on the manifold would you?

 

[bullettdsm]

Awesome!! I wish I could take my cars to a local dyno. I guess we can now see the NA run 12’s and the turbo to run low 10’s.

Ambitious aren't we ?

Is this the car your taking to the shootout or are you taking the NA?

Taking the NA

As for the 150* temps, you wouldn’t happen to have the IAT sensor located on the manifold would you?

Yeah, number 1 runner of the exhaust mani. Why do you ask ?

Locke, I believe a got the spark figured out on this one. Threw an alternator belt the other day. Pretty sure that's the problem.

MB

 

[96TurboGS]

Yeah, number 1 runner of the exhaust mani. Why do you ask ?

MB

Because, ..... I've heard numerous cases like this across many forums...neon, turbo dodge, msextra, rx7, msefi, just to name a few and I've also had this problem. The manifold ends up heating the element in the sensor to where it doesn't measure true intake temperature. When this happens the ideal fuel law megasquirt uses is useless in-return effecting your VE percentages. When I had my temp sensor on the manifold I could never get an accurate reading (due from the heat soak), then I moved it to the IC piping (opposite side from the engine right before the intake coupler on the TB) and wrapped it good, my correction was within -/+5 percent opposed to the +/-30 percent correction I was seeing on the manifold. It makes tuning a lot easier and I've never seen 150* temps and I'm using an open element gm sensor; I see intake temps around 90* - 100* daily on 90* days.

 

[bullettdsm]

Because, ..... I've heard numerous cases like this............think like a turbo car now, idiot!............ see intake temps around 90* - 100* daily on 90* days.

Touche' good point. Never had to worry about it with the NA. Had no probelm with IAT's. I imagine the turbo'd engine gets a bit more heat put to it and cannot disappate it as quickly.

But on the other hand, my previous dyno session, the W/A set-up was complete and worked properly and the IAT's were right down near ambient.
But point well taken.

MB

 

[Locke]

You could also try a phenolic IM gasket, Mark. This will (obviously) keep quite a bit of heat out of the mass of the IM.

 

[96TurboGS]

Touche' good point. Never had to worry about it with the NA. Had no probelm with IAT's. I imagine the turbo'd engine gets a bit more heat put to it and cannot disappate it as quickly.

But on the other hand, my previous dyno session, the W/A set-up was complete and worked properly and the IAT's were right down near ambient.
But point well taken.

MB

Lol, that's what happens when your turbo for 6+ years, makes you Looney.... When i first went ms i didn't have problems with the manifold until spring, and hot starts were an azz to deal with.

What heat range of plugs did you end up using for your unique beast?

 

[1slow97]

Congrats!! Amazing, What kinda gas and timing did you run scene you are High compression?
You also happen to have a pic of how you done your twin Walbro setup. I need to get my other pump in.

 

[DSM-ZERO]

About time you spill the beans on the Turbo dyno

GOOD JOB . i wish your air/water would have worked.

What Turbo were you running

 

[bullettdsm]

About time you spill the beans on the Turbo dyno

Like I said, no big surprise Was just trying to tempt you to go to the SO

What Turbo were you running

T3 BW366

What heat range of plugs did you end up using for your unique beast?

I used ngk 7's but both Matt (my tuner) and I agreed that the 8's may be better at the track. BUT that was before I threw an alternator belt and THAT became the possible cause of my spark snuff out. I'll probably stick with the 7's until I put in new injectors and a 4 bar. Then I will be able to make more power

Congrats!! Amazing, What kinda gas and timing did you run scene you are High compression?

Well funny you should ask that. Due to my screw up, it turned out to be 3 gals of C-16 mixed with 3 gallons of 93oct But still no knock issues on low to mid 11 afr's.

You also happen to have a pic of how you done your twin Walbro setup. I need to get my other pump in.

I do have one pic of the top lines through the cover;

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And I just basically zip tied the units together underneath the cover.

MB

 

[cs82685]

nice numbers Mark, can't believe I didn't see this previously. Looking forward to maybe seeing some new times for the n/a after this weekend and can't wait to see what you do once you fix the issues with the turbo and get it on the track

 

[DSM-ZERO]

how much ignition timming did you run

 

[bullettdsm]

how much ignition timming did you run

Sorry Zero, I don't remember the number. I gotta look it up on the laptop. But we didn't push the envelope on this one because we had already max'ed out the injectors and we were stuck at 24 lbs. We knew at that point that I needed injectors and map, so there was no reason to push it yet.

MB

 

[bullettdsm]

Update (why start a new thread yet?);

Went back to the dyno with my new MapDaddy 4 , a set of Dynamic Injector 1000's and a Screamin' Demon coil (plus a little reconnection of appropriate wires - just in case). Got 5 more lbs before we just started losing spark again;

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Here is the previous run to that one (where Matt forgot to hit the W/A switch. You can notice it at the top);

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Pretty much on par with where I thought I would be when I started this set-up. I wanted 550whp at 26-28lbish. So 567.9whp at 29lbs is pretty close to there (oh yeah, that's 430tq also. Matt at Dentsport's dyno software doesn't print up the torque numbers). And yes, I'm still running a 4g63 stock "squished" 1g blow off valve but that will have to come off for the next dyno encounter (for you 4g63 guys, I also use the stock 4g63 ignitor. Hell, the 420a guys will never see this now that its in here ). Obviously, will need to upgrade ignition too.

Curve still looks great and I'm now running a peak of just below 70% duty cycle what a relief it is.


MB

 

[Locke]

Bravo Mark! NOW I'm impressed. I sure you could squeeze some more ponies out of there, you say you were losing spark, yeah?

Congratulations.

edit: It looks like you never charted to peak power; you're still building power at the end of the graph (7300rpm?) Whats up with that?

 

[bullettdsm]

Bravo Mark! NOW I'm impressed. I sure you could squeeze some more ponies out of there, you say you were losing spark, yeah?

Congratulations.

edit: It looks like you never charted to peak power; you're still building power at the end of the graph (7300rpm?) Whats up with that?

Lol, yeah. Well, sometimes even the best have brain farts. I let Matt do his thing while he's on the dyno (as far as the screen is concerned). As we were doing the pulls (which were totaly uneventful. Do a pull, bllsh*t a bit, turn up the boost do another pull. No problems). After the last pull, we talked about how we found spark blow out and he's said to me "I wish we could spin this motor to 8500." What ?! (my redline is set at 8600. The build is good to at least 9k. And he did the previous pulls at 8k ). I reminded him of these things and we just laughed about it. Just a brain fart on his part.

With more to come (at least 10 more lbs available with this turbo) and starting to blow out spark, we decided Eff it and didn't bother with another pull. So yeah, the number is probably higher than that, but like I said, basically got more to go anyway so why bother?.

MB

 

[1slow97]

Dam, Congrats on the new numbers.
Did u happen to see how much timing you are running?

 

[DSM-ZERO]

Good come back on the numbers Mark ..
and
When you gonna hit the track now...Im going tommorrow

 

[bullettdsm]

Good come back on the numbers Mark ..
and
When you gonna hit the track now...Im going tommorrow

I did recently hit the track. Had a crappy day. 4 runs in. 2 runs to try to find launch and shift points. Got no 2 step, so all I could manage was 2.0's (basically launching on 10.5 comp NA). Tried brake boosting off the e-brake but the turbo hits too hard. Right now, 1 to 2 shifts and 2 to 3 shifts are spinning (so 24.5's are NOT in order, ). 4th run (last before they shut down the track) was a crappy 12.3. I never even got her into 4th I was so pissed. I just let her bounce of the rev limiter (that'll show her). Need 26's.

As for you running tomorro....er, today, like I said before, giddey up, my man. Knock 'em dead

MB

 

[Slippi84]

I don't know how I missed this when you first posted. Great job man I knew that thing would throw down so numbers when it was done. Once you find the sweet spot with the launch no doubt she has 10's in here.

 

[420aNEWB]

get some video i wanna hear the sound of your 420A

 

[bullettdsm]

I don't know how I missed this when you first posted. Great job man I knew that thing would throw down so numbers when it was done. Once you find the sweet spot with the launch no doubt she has 10's in here.

Thanks, Sean. Yeah, that recent 11.4 should have been in the 10's. Just gotta remember to turn on the W/A intercooler, huh?

get some video i wanna hear the sound of your 420A

I wish I did. I had two different people say that they thought they got me on tape at the track. Unfortunately, I've got nothing so far. And since I'm fixing my recent screw up as we speak, I got nothing right now, .

MB

 

[KevinBoosted]

Hell Yea Mark!!!!! That thing is a beast! Since im not gonna be at home in Connecticut for a while i wanna see some videos