420a Spray or boost??

[Slippi84]

Ok I am as green as it gets with 420a stuff. I won't lie untill the other day when my 1g awd became more of a PITA then a fun car I had no intensions of ever driving one no less owning one. Like a typical DSM the talon is getting parted out and i'm picking up a 97 GS for a steal as a DD as reliable as possible car but still no push over car. I'm debating on just going I/H/E and maybe a zex nitrous kit with like a 50 shot or to actually get into 420a turbo kits. My main concern is I don't plan on dumping tons of money into this non turbo like I did my tsi because lets face it I could have just stayed awd. If I can squeez say 300whp out of a turbo kit that doesn't get to crazy like maybe bolt on kit with safc and like 550s or something and be ok ESPECIALY with stock bottom end then i'm cool but if the 420 isn't capable of 300whp on a everyday basis on pump gas too then it's really a waste and i'll just stay with basic stuff and make it a nice dd more show car.

 

[97EagleTalon2nr]

Well with I/H/E you wont notice much of a difference at all, but 300hp on a stock bottomend is pushing it, and 550s and safcs wont work for our cars.Youd be better off with a SFMU and 550s even though you wouldnt need that big of injectors for the low boost you'd be pushing on those stock internals.Id think 310cc's would be big enough.You could always piece together a kit to save some money.Read GSgoinfasts writeup in the Turbo Tech/DIY section.

Brian

 

[Blitzeclips]

Your goals are unrealistic based on the car's potential. You want a 300HP 4 cylinder with a stock bottom end. Isn't gonna happen, well, realistically atleast. Also, the SAFC's don't do shit for our cars like they do the 4g63's. So you can scratch that off the list. For your goals, just do I H E and nitrous.

Your basically saying you want something that can't be reached. It's like me buying a neon and saying, I want 300HP out of this by slapping on a turbo kit, and not spending alot of money. Think about it dude.

 

[Slippi84]

Your goals are unrealistic based on the car's potential. You want a 300HP 4 cylinder with a stock bottom end. Isn't gonna happen, well, realistically atleast. Also, the SAFC's don't do shit for our cars like they do the 4g63's. So you can scratch that off the list. For your goals, just do I H E and nitrous.

Your basically saying you want something that can't be reached. It's like me buying a neon and saying, I want 300HP out of this by slapping on a turbo kit, and not spending alot of money. Think about it dude.

You must have never owned a 4g63. I could push a stock 4g63 bottom end to 500whp.

This is why I asked guys I have no idea what the 420a is capable of. Yeah looks like it's not worth the money to boost it in my opinion unless your looking to drop some serious cash. I mean I'm not a cheap modder I had 15k into the talon just look at my classified ad for the stuff i'm parting out(dsmlink gt14 turbo wideband 950cc injectors ect..) Looks like its' I/H/E and spray and call it a day I'll just save up and pick up a cleaner awd later on down the road. Thanks

 

[97EagleTalon2nr]

Well if you're comftorable piecing together a kit then you can do it for cheap but it isnt all bolt on stuff.Youd be lucky to get 275hp at the crank out of it though.

 

[Slippi84]

Well if you're comftorable piecing together a kit then you can do it for cheap but it isnt all bolt on stuff.Youd be lucky to get 275hp at the crank out of it though.

Yeah that's like maybe 230whp if i'm lucky not worth it in my opinion. I'll just do basic stuff and I might even do the unthinkable and put a bodykit on it and rims and make a more show car and not even mess with it that much

 

[BigRand]

I might even do the unthinkable and put a bodykit on it and rims and make a more show car and not even mess with it that much

No offense man, but if your trying not to spend money, your going about this the wrong way. Body kit is gonna run you at least 600 for a quality one, plus paint, and rims....your hitting the 2grand mark right there wich would build you a nice turbo 420a with quality parts.

If your sticking to the I/H/E plus nitrous route, your budget should probably look more like this

Ebay short ram intake = $40
K&N air filter = $35
Pacetter or megan racing header= $100-$150
Tsudo N1 Exhaust = $200
Zex Wet nitrous kit (50-75 shot) = $600
Walbro 255 fuel pump = $100

Total: about $1100

From the sounds of it you'll probably want to lower your car so add
$200 for the Eibach prokits.

This is my opinion, but I think your better off leaving the car in its stock form if your trying not to dump money into it. This is coming from a guy who had a body kit, went through 2 front bumpers, a cracked side skirt and a cracked rear bumper, and then finally went to turn it back into a stock clean 2g eclipse.

Post a couple of pics of your new GS

 

[Blitzeclips]

No offense man, but if your trying not to spend money, your going about this the wrong way. Body kit is gonna run you at least 600 for a quality one, plus paint, and rims....your hitting the 2grand mark right there wich would build you a nice turbo 420a with quality parts.

If your sticking to the I/H/E plus nitrous route, your budget should probably look more like this

Ebay short ram intake = $40
K&N air filter = $35
Pacetter or megan racing header= $100-$150
Tsudo N1 Exhaust = $200
Zex Wet nitrous kit (50-75 shot) = $600
Walbro 255 fuel pump = $100

Total: about $1100

From the sounds of it you'll probably want to lower your car so add
$200 for the Eibach prokits.

This is my opinion, but I think your better off leaving the car in its stock form if your trying not to dump money into it. This is coming from a guy who had a body kit, went through 2 front bumpers, a cracked side skirt and a cracked rear bumper, and then finally went to turn it back into a stock clean 2g eclipse.

Post a couple of pics of your new GS

I agree. I'm on my second front bumper. But that was from a drifting accident.

 

[Gregory]

Wouldn't you just be better off buying another gst or gsx and working from there? Isen't that cheaper than buying a 420a and turboing it? Or have the kits really come down in cost?

 

[BigRand]

Wouldn't you just be better off buying another gst or gsx and working from there? Isen't that cheaper than buying a 420a and turboing it? Or have the kits really come down in cost?

IMO, the OP's first post was that he didn't know what the 420a's were capeable of and that he wanted to do things to it, but make it a daily driver and not dump so much money into his car at this point in his life as he already did that with his 1g (about 15k right),

For about 2grand and some work, a 420a turbo can see 200-230whp on about 8psi.

Ask bullet how much it took him to get his non turbo where its at, and if he could do it again, about how much would it take to get his non turbo where its at.

I just had a friend who put down 270whp on a dynodynamic (the heart break dyno) at 10psi. Although he had a built bottom end for insurance and megasquirt to tune, and we never really finished tuning the map and left it pretty rich due to money and time constraints.

 

[Shadow98]

I agree. I'm on my second front bumper. But that was from a drifting accident.

How do you drift in a FF? Maybe sliding around or something but not drift. In a drift you still have control of the car.

 

[Locke]

With the front sway-bar disconnected (broken link) on another FWD car, I have easily gotten the back end to rotate around the front in high speed turns, and still go where I wanted it to go. I don't know if a controlled oversteer is considered a drift or not, though.

 

[Slippi84]

Wouldn't you just be better off buying another gst or gsx and working from there? Isen't that cheaper than buying a 420a and turboing it? Or have the kits really come down in cost?

Exactly but that's hard to explain to someone who has never tried to mod a 4g63 motor.

 

[Slippi84]

IMO, the OP's first post was that he didn't know what the 420a's were capeable of and that he wanted to do things to it, but make it a daily driver and not dump so much money into his car at this point in his life as he already did that with his 1g (about 15k right),

For about 2grand and some work, a 420a turbo can see 200-230whp on about 8psi.

Ask bullet how much it took him to get his non turbo where its at, and if he could do it again, about how much would it take to get his non turbo where its at.

I just had a friend who put down 270whp on a dynodynamic (the heart break dyno) at 10psi. Although he had a built bottom end for insurance and megasquirt to tune, and we never really finished tuning the map and left it pretty rich due to money and time constraints.

That's very respectable but you have to understand I was runing a gt14(500whp turbo) at like 20-25psi well that was gonna be the goal when it was fully broken in. for me 230whp is a tuned 14b(stock 1gawd turbo) car which is not worth it in my opinion. It won't take 2 grand I have a guy willing to trade me a Apexi N1 catback and body kit for my dsmlink setup. SO that's 0$ and i'm already half way there. Not to mention I still have a walbro 255hp but tha'ts not needed for a car with a 50 wet shot. You couldn't just throw a walbro 255 on a stock car anyway you would overun the injectors too. Zex kits go for more like 4-500 on ebay too used but still in good condition.

 

[Locke]

Exactly but that's hard to explain to someone who has never tried to mod a 4g63 motor.

Nobody that has posted in this thread so far is a newb. Everybody already knows you can go faster, for cheaper, with a 4g63.

Our stock bottom end is strong like butter, and won't handle 300hp. It would be best to rebuild with stronger components if you wanted to boost to 300hp and be reliable.

Sans boost, a great option after basic bolt-ons would be an MSnS install. Incredibly cheap, and according to Mark, one of the best NA mods he has performed.

 

[BigRand]

well good luck with your daily man......

But your not going to over run the injectors with a walbro 255 on these cars, and if you got it I would use it as insurance for your nitrous kit, IMO.

You seem like a knowlegeable tuner, if you were pushing 500whp to your 4g63, apply some of that thinking to this car too and you'll be just fine with whatever you choose to do.


I still don't get why your not looking for another 4g63, if you got such a deal on the 420a, you could turn around and sell it for more, and go get what your really looking for.

 

[Slippi84]

well good luck with your daily man......

But your not going to over run the injectors with a walbro 255 on these cars, and if you got it I would use it as insurance for your nitrous kit, IMO.

You seem like a knowlegeable tuner, if you were pushing 500whp to your 4g63, apply some of that thinking to this car too and you'll be just fine with whatever you choose to do.


I still don't get why your not looking for another 4g63, if you got such a deal on the 420a, you could turn around and sell it for more, and go get what your really looking for.

Thanks Man. The thing is this is what I need. I want a fast tsi but I need a car that will run and drive and not have me worried if I"m gonna make it to point b which could be work practice ect. I'm still gonna get another TSI but this will be my dd as I found out the hard way a heavily modded 4g63t is not the way to go for a everyday car.

Edit: By the way why wouldn't the fpr get overrun in a 420 a like it does in a 4g63 is the return line bigger so that it can effectivly reroute enough fuel back ?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Thanks Man. The thing is this is what I need. I want a fast tsi but I need a car that will run and drive and not have me worried if I"m gonna make it to point b which could be work practice ect. I'm still gonna get another TSI but this will be my dd as I found out the hard way a heavily modded 4g63t is not the way to go for a everyday car.

Edit: By the way why wouldn't the fpr get overrun in a 420 a like it does in a 4g63 is the return line bigger so that it can effectivly reroute enough fuel back ?

As far as I know, the injectors aren't the problem in 4G63s -- the FPRs are overrun. The 420A has a completely different FPR... don't ask why it's stronger than a factor turbo FPR, but it's been tested over and over again, and it won't be overrun.

 

[Blitzeclips]

How do you drift in a FF? Maybe sliding around or something but not drift. In a drift you still have control of the car.

I don't know. E-brake plus throttle = drift? I've been racing my whole life so it's kind of second nature. I just get it sideways. . Alot of it is throttle control and carrying momentum.

 

[Slippi84]

As far as I know, the injectors aren't the problem in 4G63s -- the FPRs are overrun. The 420A has a completely different FPR... don't ask why it's stronger than a factor turbo FPR, but it's been tested over and over again, and it won't be overrun.

You are correct that's why I brought up the return. The thing is the stock 4g63 fpr isn't able to maintain the desired fuel pressure after a certain point and the return line isn't big enough to route unused/unwanted gas(how much descided by a/f ratio) back to the tank so it runs to the injectors making it almost impossible to tune because of this due to variable fuel pressure leves thus meaning variable a/f ratios that for the most part aren't predictable. Afpr like the areomotive are adjustable and can maintain the desired pressure level and raise at a 1:1 boost ratio.


Actually I did some research it might be worth it for me to just keep my intercooler walbro 255 and my tial style bov, areomotive afpr and walbro 255 and just boost this thing I figure all i'll need is to trade my 950cc injectors for something A LOT smaller get w/e it is 420a's best tune with(forgive my ignorance) and just pick up a ebay turbo and manifold with some oil lines and ### not. I saw a kit for like 375 for the turbo mainfold oil lines and wastegate.

 

[BigRand]

If you got the 97GS, I can tell you that the fuel setup actually doesn't have a fuel return line, the older 95's do I believe.

Definately look up the differences between the early fuel system and the late fuel systems.


Well with what you got, I'd say you could put together a pretty cheap build....I'd say go for a vortech 12:1 FMU and just keep the stock injectors if you don't plan on raising boost past about 8psi.....its good up to 9psi....however I just remembered that you already have a 1:1 afpr, so maybe something in the neighborhood of 310-370cc would suffice....but thats just a guess.

Make sure you look around 2gnt.com in the classifieds for people getting rid of manifolds and turbo's.

 

[Slippi84]

If you got the 97GS, I can tell you that the fuel setup actually doesn't have a fuel return line, the older 95's do I believe.

Definately look up the differences between the early fuel system and the late fuel systems.


Well with what you got, I'd say you could put together a pretty cheap build....I'd say go for a vortech 12:1 FMU and just keep the stock injectors if you don't plan on raising boost past about 8psi.....its good up to 9psi....however I just remembered that you already have a 1:1 afpr, so maybe something in the neighborhood of 310-370cc would suffice....but thats just a guess.

Make sure you look around 2gnt.com in the classifieds for people getting rid of manifolds and turbo's.

Thanks a lot. What's wrong with a 16g off here though? People seell them all the time cheap and anyone know how the mitsu exhaust housing works for downpipe location?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Look at my gallery.... that's how the 16G looks on a 420A.

 

[BigRand]

Thanks a lot. What's wrong with a 16g off here though? People seell them all the time cheap and anyone know how the mitsu exhaust housing works for downpipe location?

Just eliminate the 02 housing and weld the flange to a u bend.

I've actually seen good results with the ebay china made turbo's, I have a friend who put down 580whp on his civic hatch.

The problem with the turbo's is that they aren't gaurenteed, hit and miss interms of quality control, and some work for some, and some blow up for others.

You can give it a shot, I just figured if you can find a genuwine 16g from a member, it'll be less things to worry about.

 

[Shadow98]

I've actually seen good results with the ebay china made turbo's, I have a friend who put down 580whp on his civic hatch.

The problem with the turbo's is that they aren't gaurenteed, hit and miss interms of quality control, and some work for some, and some blow up for others.

The main problem with them is the oil seal. Mine went out after 3-4 months, but other than that everything else seem to be fine. All well, I guess it's on to the Turbonetic's one...