350hp Best bang for your Buck Build?

[fmars62]

I am planning on getting a 95/96 talon tsi awd soon (looking at one this weekend). And then I would drive it get to know the car for a little since it will be my first dsm, and then ill build a motor on the side. I would like to get this done befoe the end of the summer.

My budget will be $5,000 after I get the car. I have been searching and I am sort of getting an idea of what i need. I this will be a weekend car for cruising with friends, going to shows, and hitting the dragstrip one in a while. I would like to make 350hp at the wheels.

So, I have read other builds and here is just some things that I think I may need but i am not sure because again this will be my first dsm and project car so im going to need some assistance.

Stronger axles, coilovers, clutch, transmission (rebuild or new)?, engine (what one to get, what internals, setup etc.?) What turbo? Intercooler, engine management, exhaust/intake, fuel pump, flywheel, driveshaft..

When I build this I want stuff to start breaking because i didnt replace/upgrade that part. And for all the parts I want to get the best bang for my buck, even if I have to get soem things used.

 

[crazytsiawd]

Tech Guide: 2G 4G63t Upgrades - DSMtuners

it's there for a reason, before you even start with mods make sure you're maintenance is up to date.

 

[fmars62]

Tech Guide: 2G 4G63t Upgrades - DSMtuners

it's there for a reason, before you even start with mods make sure you're maintenance is up to date.

yes I have read thru that multiple times, and thats how i sort of came up with this list, but the main thing I am worried about is the engine, what parts to get and where to get them. like what block do I get? what turbo, pistons, bore, rods, etc. every build i read is different so i just really dont know

 

[gsxtreme1987]

yes I have read thru that multiple times, and thats how i sort of came up with this list, but the main thing I am worried about is the engine, what parts to get and where to get them. like what block do I get? what turbo, pistons, bore, rods, etc. every build i read is different so i just really dont know

You don't need to do anything to the engine. Well as long as you are buying a running car and the compression test is good.

350hp is fine on the stock healthy motor.

 

[97gsxIA]

350hp is not a hard achievement to accomplish. There is no need to get forged internals or upgraded drivetrain unless there is already issues with them. People are getting well over 350hp on stock setups with just boltons and tuning.
you'll at least need 750cc inj. and a bigger fuelpump and/or a rewire. Personally I'd suggest an evo316g turbo and a FMIC if your goal is 350hp only. I garuntee you'll want more though
for engine management I'd say for you dsmlink would be the best choice ESPECIALLY if it's a 95 since the ECU's on 95 are most likely EPROM. (but you must check this because some are not)
I'd look into a different MAS such as a GM MAF (easy to use with link) 2g MAS do have plenty of airflow, but hey, why the hell not?
3" exhaust straight from 02 housing back has always been a must for me.
Like i said, upgrading your drivetrain is not completely necessary for 350hp but IMO I'd look into it with left over money.

Most importantly get yourself a Boost gauge first and a Wideband. (if they arent there to begin with)

exhaust mani and intake mani upgrades are also a consideration especially for spool up times.

You'll find that 5,000 will go pretty wuick depending on if you like NEW things.
I'd suggest a rebuilt turbo because they are far cheaper than new ones.

GOOD LUCK on the build. Keep us updated, AND DO SHIT TONS OF READING. READ READ READ. I read more about building these motors than I have spent time on building them.

Maintenance FIRST , BOOST later.

 

[fmars62]

You don't need to do anything to the engine. Well as long as you are buying a running car and the compression test is good.

350hp is fine on the stock healthy motor.

ok well that will save a lot of money. so i do a compression test and everything turns out good but how do i tell if the internals are ok? take it apart...?

 

[crazytsiawd]

yes I have read thru that multiple times, and thats how i sort of came up with this list, but the main thing I am worried about is the engine, what parts to get and where to get them. like what block do I get? what turbo, pistons, bore, rods, etc. every build i read is different so i just really dont know

do a compression test, everything checks out i wouldn't bother doing the motor, there are plenty of people out there still running the stock block making 400ish whp, in fact i believe a little while ago the new "stock block" record was broken making 770 whp or just around there, i wouldn't push it that far, but for you're goals stock is just fine.

 

[ed1380]

For 350 you'll just need a 16g and more fuel. Drivetrain will be fine as long as it is maintained.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Read through the vendors for prices, and parts, if your unsure pull it apart and inspect it, thats the only way of knowing, you can assume or guess all day long. Get into it and see.

 

[crazytsiawd]

heres a basic setup to help you get started in the right direction.

600+cc injectors
255lph fuel pump
boost gauge
wide band gauge
ecmlink
manual boost controller
evo3 16g (great sreet turbo)
ported 2g manifold

 

[fmars62]

350hp is not a hard achievement to accomplish. There is no need to get forged internals or upgraded drivetrain unless there is already issues with them. People are getting well over 350hp on stock setups with just boltons and tuning.
you'll at least need 750cc inj. and a bigger fuelpump and/or a rewire. Personally I'd suggest an evo316g turbo and a FMIC if your goal is 350hp only. I garuntee you'll want more though
for engine management I'd say for you dsmlink would be the best choice ESPECIALLY if it's a 95 since the ECU's on 95 are most likely EPROM. (but you must check this because some are not)
I'd look into a different MAS such as a GM MAF (easy to use with link) 2g MAS do have plenty of airflow, but hey, why the hell not?
3" exhaust straight from 02 housing back has always been a must for me.
Like i said, upgrading your drivetrain is not completely necessary for 350hp but IMO I'd look into it with left over money.

Most importantly get yourself a Boost gauge first and a Wideband. (if they arent there to begin with)

exhaust mani and intake mani upgrades are also a consideration especially for spool up times.

You'll find that 5,000 will go pretty wuick depending on if you like NEW things.
I'd suggest a rebuilt turbo because they are far cheaper than new ones.

GOOD LUCK on the build. Keep us updated, AND DO SHIT TONS OF READING. READ READ READ. I read more about building these motors than I have spent time on building them.

WOW! if i dont need to touch the engine and i can make more that 350hp easily then I am psyched. now since this is my first dsm maybe I can get to know the car as it is (with some bolt on, exhaust, intakes, turbo) then build it up to 350hp and then i know ill want to go further.

so to get 350whp ill need injectors, fuel pump, intercooler, evo 3 16g turbo... and then some tuning software and tuning is something that I really have no clue how to do...should i get it tuned or is the software easy to use?

and then I really dont want to spend 5k on just 350hp...now what would be the lowest pice I can achieve 350hp? so i can save my money for the future..

 

[WES_393]

If your shooting for a 350hp build, and pretty sure that you won't want to go any higher for at least a while, here's my bare minumum recomendations:

Stock block in good shape. Stock 7-bolts can take a bit over 400hp so save your money there.
Stock head is just fine, the stock DSM head flows good enough for 350hp. Maybe cams if you want to shift the powerband.
Same with intake and exhaust manifolds, no need to blow $1000 on a SMIM or tubular exhaust for a 350hp dialy driver, the stockers will do just fine.
Injectors- 660cc-1000cc depending on what fuel you want to run.
Fuel Pump- Walbro 255 is good choice since it wil support your goals. You'll need an AFPR as well. I suggest Aeromotive.
Turbo-Big 16g or Big T28. You'll also need a decent FMIC to deal with all the heat these little turbos make when you start pushing them hard.
Free flowing exhaust
Nice filter (K&N 4" is best)
Hard pipes from turbo to throttle body
New timing belt assembly. No matter how old the previous owner says it is, change it out. Use Mistu or Gates components only.
Tuning- I suggest using nothing but DSMLink. SAFC's are too weak for the power we are talking about and AEM EMS is a bit extreme for a 350hp street build. So DSMLink is the way to go here. You'll also need a boost gauge, a wideband, and I suggest an oil pressure gauge.
Drivetrain- The only thing you'll really have a problem with is the stock clutch. It won't hold torque for shit. Even if the PO says he put a stronger one in there, just look forward to putting a better one in there in the future. I suggest ACT pressure plate and your choice of disk. As long as the stock diff, axles, Xfer case, etc are in good shape with good lubrication, they will handle the power so long as they don't go through daily drag racing/clutch dumps.
Balance shafts need to be eliminated as well.
I don't know how NY works for emissions testing, but I would eliminate as much as possible. Especially the EGR.

Other than that, it's all just maintenance, maintenance, and more maintenance. Every thing you can think of that counts as maintenance should be done. Fuel filter, oil change, trans maintenance, any worn out parts, etc etc.

 

[crazytsiawd]

WOW! if i dont need to touch the engine and i can make more that 350hp easily then I am psyched. now since this is my first dsm maybe I can get to know the car as it is (with some bolt on, exhaust, intakes, turbo) then build it up to 350hp and then i know ill want to go further.

so to get 350whp ill need injectors, fuel pump, intercooler, evo 3 16g turbo... and then some tuning software and tuning is something that I really have no clue how to do...should i get it tuned or is the software easy to use?

and then I really dont want to spend 5k on just 350hp...now what would be the lowest pice I can achieve 350hp? so i can save my money for the future..

under a 1000 with used parts.

 

[icekilla126]

All the mods every one gave you is good if you want that power at the crank, but you will need a good clutch to get it at the wheels.

^^^ %$#@!! beat me to it.

 

[97gsxIA]

Like I said, just read on all of this. I read hundreds if not thousands of posts and tech articles on this site before I even touched my car after maintenance. That search button is amazing my friend.

Patience is key

Maintenance key points before boosting:

Timing belt replacement and tensioner/pulley replacement. ALWAYS DO THIS ON NEWLY BOUGHT DSM

change th oil, DO A BOOST LEAK TEST (search it), change the plugs, and wires and make sure theyre gapoped correctly.

Maintenance is huge if you want to get this right the first time.

ECMTuning, Inc. for DSMlink

I can't stress enough to do all the proper maintenance and READ before upgrading anything.

Read up on the tuning. I even bought books. (Yeah I know, right!? F**n books.)
lots of posts and tech artice on this site. USE THEM

Compression test as well: the readings should be above 133 AT THE MINIMUM I wouldnt biuld on any motor with less than 140 (IN MY OPINION) But if you arent like me, just make sure they all are with 15psi of eachother <--- most important

 

[fmars62]

wowww, i cannot even explain how happy you guys made me by telling me this. I cannot wait to get into the dsm game, here is the car I will be looking at this weekend: 96 Eagle Talon Tsi

extra pics.

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as you guys can see it is mainly stock so it is perfect for me. if i like it, no rust and i get it for the price i want

 

[tom_and_case]

Shooting for the same goal. Just picked up my 16G turbo and 625cc injectors. We are right around the same area, so if you need help pm me. I've got a couple friends with dsm's as well who have been through building theirs already. Good luck!

 

[WES_393]

Thats a good looking body on there, I would get the rust settled right away though. Other than that, it looks like a good start!

 

[fmars62]

Like I said, just read on all of this. I read hundreds if not thousands of posts and tech articles on this site before I even touched my car after maintenance. That search button is amazing my friend.

Patience is key

Maintenance key points before boosting:

Timing belt replacement and tensioner/pulley replacement. ALWAYS DO THIS ON NEWLY BOUGHT DSM

change th oil, DO A BOOST LEAK TEST (search it), change the plugs, and wires and make sure theyre gapoped correctly.

Maintenance is huge if you want to get this right the first time.

ECMTuning, Inc. for DSMlink

I can't stress enough to do all the proper maintenance and READ before upgrading anything.

Read up on the tuning. I even bought books. (Yeah I know, right!? F**n books.)
lots of posts and tech artice on this site. USE THEM

Compression test as well: the readings should be above 133 AT THE MINIMUM I wouldnt biuld on any motor with less than 140 (IN MY OPINION) But if you arent like me, just make sure they all are with 15psi of eachother <--- most important

thanks for everything and everyone else too.and yeah i know maintenance is key, every car i get i always check/change all the fluids and do tests. and with a dsm i really want to get it right the first time.

Shooting for the same goal. Just picked up my 16G turbo and 625cc injectors. We are right around the same area, so if you need help pm me. I've got a couple friends with dsm's as well who have been through building theirs already. Good luck!

awesome, hopefully if i get this we can meet up sometime

Thats a good looking body on there, I would get the rust settled right away though. Other than that, it looks like a good start!

and yeah i talked to the guy, he said there is rust starting on the strut towers but not rotted thru (what i am worried about most) and then some barely starting behind the rear wheel

 

[97gsxIA]

When you move onto a front mount intercooler cooler, Get rid of all those soft IC piping and move to hard piping.

youre welcome for the advice, I love it when new guys show up. FRESH MEAT!

welcome to forums, this site has helped me reach every goal I've ever had with a DSM. I wouldn't go anywhere else. also, take a look at this site. It's my #2

VFAQ Site - Visual Frequently Answered Questions


EDIT: Congratulations on buying a DSM from someone who at least has the knowledge of recirculating the BOV. That right there would make me want to buy the car. Ive dished out 3,500 on broken down AWD dsm's. Theyre worth every penny IMO running or not.

 

[fmars62]

When you move onto a front mount intercooler cooler, Get rid of all those soft IC piping and move to hard piping.

youre welcome for the advice, I love it when new guys show up. FRESH MEAT!

welcome to forums, this site has helped me reach every goal I've ever had with a DSM. I wouldn't go anywhere else. also, take a look at this site. It's my #2

VFAQ Site - Visual Frequently Answered Questions

what do you mean soft piping? where?

and im not totally new, look at my join date, i have been lurking on here for a while and i have been dying to get a talon and now im praying this one this weekend is my big break, hopefully i can snatch it for 3000 if its up to standards

and one question, if i bring my plates from my car now and i put them on the talon to drive home..whats my chances of getting pulled over, impounded, etc.?

 

[4Lurker4]

what do you mean soft piping? where?

He just means metal piping instead of the stock plastic/hose. Less expansion and you can get bigger diameter in the process of the change.

 

[volcomsnow245]

As stated above make sure maintainance is done. Last thing you need is your timing belt snapping. Depending on how many miles are done I would look into a new head gasket and arp head studs.

 

[92AWDHX40]

all new timing components dont, skimp, oil pump, water pump, pulleys gaskets a fresh bottom end do it now and dont worry about it until next time, ive said oh this was ok, and it really wasnt once i had to pull it apart, years ago i was being cheap back in 94.

 

[WES_393]

I forgot to add that you want ARP headstuds. Replace the bolts with studs one by one so you can keep the stock headgasket (it's good for 400+ hp )

Ah, someone beat me to it