3/S vs DSM

[3kgt2nv]

dude your car isnt some unreliable turbo beast. its a fwd na. if it cant make a 6 hour drive and a couple passes down the track i would suggest that you lay off all those power mods you have and do some maintenance. you prob drive it more than 6 hours a day while cruising for all these dsm's and gtr's to kill.

I drove my 550awhp vr4 from NY to Memphis in 08 for the national gathering. 18 hours each way and participated in every event autox, road course in 108*heat and the 1/4 drag event I ended up blowing my tranny up hot lapping it at Memphis motorsports complex and drove it home with no 2nd or 3rd gear.

sounds like more crap excuses to me why you cant do something.

And just so you know about how fast 187hp and you saying its not a Honda. my grandmothers v6 accords makes 271 at the engine and prob somewhere around 230 to the wheels and i wouldn't race a stock dsm with it.

your 20 year old 3.0 non turbo 3104 pound car () is not that fast. Until you get a time slip from a track i wouldn't brag about participating in illegal street racing and saying what everyone else s car can do. just because there are fast 3/s cars out there it doesn't mean that your SL is fast.

now here comes the drama.

its people like you spreading all kinds of wrong information that make people think that all 3/s including vr4's are heavy slow cars. Because many vr4 owners debadge there car people tend to think all of them are twin turbo. i don't know how many kill stories and shit talking i hear from sl owners like you that make people talk crap after blowing your doors off in a race.

I would not keep telling people you beat 16g dsm's like that because i will put a 16g on my car and drive it down to you 15 hours by goole maps and race you for your pink slip and then i will cut your car up with a sawzall just to shut you up after u loose.

my 550awhp vr4 ran dead even with a much lower hp dsm because of several factors.
1. parts availability
2. better tuning software (link)
3. weight
4. more r&d for proven setups
5. affordability.

most 16g dsm's tend to make between 300-450 depending on boost and other mods. if you really think you can beat a awd or even a fwd turbo car with almost double your power you need to ask your mommy to buy you something faster because my guess is you wear a plastic helmet and tend to drool alot.

 

[cl1ckclack]

dude your car isnt some unreliable turbo beast. its a fwd na. if it cant make a 6 hour drive and a couple passes down the track i would suggest that you lay off all those power mods you have and do some maintenance. you prob drive it more than 6 hours a day while cruising for all these dsm's and gtr's to kill.

I drove my 550awhp vr4 from NY to Memphis in 08 for the national gathering. 18 hours each way and participated in every event autox, road course in 108*heat and the 1/4 drag event I ended up blowing my tranny up hot lapping it at Memphis motorsports complex and drove it home with no 2nd or 3rd gear.

sounds like more crap excuses to me why you cant do something.

And just so you know about how fast 187hp and you saying its not a Honda. my grandmothers v6 accords makes 271 at the engine and prob somewhere around 230 to the wheels and i wouldn't race a stock dsm with it.

your 20 year old 3.0 non turbo 3104 pound car () is not that fast. Until you get a time slip from a track i wouldn't brag about participating in illegal street racing and saying what everyone else s car can do. just because there are fast 3/s cars out there it doesn't mean that your SL is fast.

now here comes the drama.

its people like you spreading all kinds of wrong information that make people think that all 3/s including vr4's are heavy slow cars. Because many vr4 owners debadge there car people tend to think all of them are twin turbo. i don't know how many kill stories and shit talking i hear from sl owners like you that make people talk crap after blowing your doors off in a race.

I would not keep telling people you beat 16g dsm's like that because i will put a 16g on my car and drive it down to you 15 hours by goole maps and race you for your pink slip and then i will cut your car up with a sawzall just to shut you up after u loose.

my 550awhp vr4 ran dead even with a much lower hp dsm because of several factors.
1. parts availability
2. better tuning software (link)
3. weight
4. more r&d for proven setups
5. affordability.

most 16g dsm's tend to make between 300-450 depending on boost and other mods. if you really think you can beat a awd or even a fwd turbo car with almost double your power you need to ask your mommy to buy you something faster because my guess is you wear a plastic helmet and tend to drool alot.

sir you just made my day!

 

[LandoAWD]

Stock 1/4 mile times; note the NA one:

Mitsubishi

1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT SL 8.5 16.4
1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 5.3 13.8
1992 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 5.8 14.3
1993 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 5.3 14.0
1994 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 5.7 14.2
1995 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 5.4 13.5
1997 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 4.8 13.6

This post is looking at stupid in the rear-view.

 

[T is for TURBO]

Are EVOs at war too?

 

[omega260]

dude your car isnt some unreliable turbo beast. its a fwd na. if it cant make a 6 hour drive and a couple passes down the track i would suggest that you lay off all those power mods you have and do some maintenance. you prob drive it more than 6 hours a day while cruising for all these dsm's and gtr's to kill.

I drove my 550awhp vr4 from NY to Memphis in 08 for the national gathering. 18 hours each way and participated in every event autox, road course in 108*heat and the 1/4 drag event I ended up blowing my tranny up hot lapping it at Memphis motorsports complex and drove it home with no 2nd or 3rd gear.

sounds like more crap excuses to me why you cant do something.

And just so you know about how fast 187hp and you saying its not a Honda. my grandmothers v6 accords makes 271 at the engine and prob somewhere around 230 to the wheels and i wouldn't race a stock dsm with it.

your 20 year old 3.0 non turbo 3104 pound car () is not that fast. Until you get a time slip from a track i wouldn't brag about participating in illegal street racing and saying what everyone else s car can do. just because there are fast 3/s cars out there it doesn't mean that your SL is fast.

now here comes the drama.

its people like you spreading all kinds of wrong information that make people think that all 3/s including vr4's are heavy slow cars. Because many vr4 owners debadge there car people tend to think all of them are twin turbo. i don't know how many kill stories and shit talking i hear from sl owners like you that make people talk crap after blowing your doors off in a race.

I would not keep telling people you beat 16g dsm's like that because i will put a 16g on my car and drive it down to you 15 hours by goole maps and race you for your pink slip and then i will cut your car up with a sawzall just to shut you up after u loose.

my 550awhp vr4 ran dead even with a much lower hp dsm because of several factors.
1. parts availability
2. better tuning software (link)
3. weight
4. more r&d for proven setups
5. affordability.

most 16g dsm's tend to make between 300-450 depending on boost and other mods. if you really think you can beat a awd or even a fwd turbo car with almost double your power you need to ask your mommy to buy you something faster because my guess is you wear a plastic helmet and tend to drool alot.

Ohhh shiiiit. The amount of told OP just received cannot be measured.

 

[cl1ckclack]

Ohhh shiiiit. The amount of told OP just received cannot be measured.

if i was the OP, i would have stopped posting a long time ago...

 

[Dhan]

Just ran my scanner over this thread. Be careful, we're approaching the danger zone.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[EclipseOwner95]

This thread just made the last 30 minutes of my work day very enjoyable.

Thanks OP!

 

[AK Maniak]

Haha this just made my day. OP should've stopped a long time ago.

 

[BlackMount]

Stock 1/4 mile times; note the NA one:

Mitsubishi

1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT SL 8.5 16.4
1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 5.3 13.8
1992 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 5.8 14.3
1993 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 5.3 14.0
1994 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 5.7 14.2
1995 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 5.4 13.5
1997 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 4.8 13.6

This post is looking at stupid in the rear-view.

Allow me to get u some owner times, not magazine times where they have shitty drivers and r afraid to break the car.

Let me google that for you

Retracing my steps from few months ago I found the 12.8 run was with a flashed ECU otherwise car was 100% stock.

Can be found here.

Reason why VR4/Stealth TT aren't Famous, and How fast they Actually ARE! - 3000GT/Stealth International Message Center

Here you go.

This is extremely out dated but Fastest stock n/a time 14.5

3S Quicklist-www.importpoweronline.com

If u google it u will find "14.1 no nitrous" do not know if it had exhaust or anything otherwise tho.

Your post is lacking proper searching and full of ignorance in my rear view.

 

[Spyder FX]

I love both cars. I just wish idiots would stop referring to a 3/S as a "3si" it isn't a F'in website... 3Si is home of the noobs and Nelson. 3SGto is home to where all the OGs of 3Si went. I've been there since 2002 and haven't seen this much BS posted on that site as you put on this one.

 

[BlackMount]

I love both cars. I just wish idiots would stop referring to a 3/S as a "3si" it isn't a F'in website... 3Si is home of the noobs and Nelson. 3SGto is home to where all the OGs of 3Si went. I've been there since 2002 and haven't seen this much BS posted on that site as you put on this one.

I dislike 3si alot.... only use it as resource. 3sgto much better. Especially chatbox.

 

[omega260]

OP can we at least get a vid of your beast mobile to top the thread off?

 

[CLeMMeR]

Let's get real... It's something called autocorrect when you type on an iPhone? Yeah 3S whatever you wanna call it. This thread is a useless debate on something that we all know it's gonna end up getting locked. No matter how much stats either of you guys find it's still benchracing. There's a thread for that... You're comparing 2 different setups within a manufacture

 

[3kgt2nv]

here we go again. here is the post made buy the guy that reflashed the ecu (by the way not a stock mod, equivalent of running link in a dsm)

Crazy night tonight!

Been spending too much time coding and not enough behind the wheel. It's probably been 5+ years since I've dropped the clutch at the strip. Some co-workers were heading out and the weather was absolutely perfect for racing. Mid-50s at 320ft above sea level!

The purpose of this visit was to find out just how much you can get from a chromed ECU. My car is 100% stock with just under 100K on it. Airfilter, BOV, fuel pump.... All emissions equipment is in place and functioning! The last time the car was serviced was 7 years ago at the dealer for the 60K and they used all OEM parts! The only thing the previous owner did to this car was regular fluid changes and detail jobs. AFAIK, the trans and clutch are still original. The tires are also 6 years old. They are flat spotted, cracked and barely passed inspection.

All I've added to this car was a wideband (which isn't tied into the stock ECU in any way yet) and an EVOX map sensor for logging boost. Absolutely everything else is as it is from the factory.

Anyway, how well does a properly maintained completely stock VR4 perform? At the recommendation of the WRX guys, all I did was inflate my tires to 48psi.

I got in 2 runs. Nothing special. Rev bouncing launch around 5500rpms and quick shifts around 6800rpms:

13.79 @ 99.8mph with a 1.86 60ft
13.82 @ 100.9mph with a 1.88 60ft

About spot on with what you would normally expect. Nose pointed to the sky in every gear.

After the second run, all I did was flash Chrome V2 with my every day tune then get back in line. Little back ground with what's to come for all you flash ECU guys!

Launch control settings were 5500rpms with -15 degree timing retard. Car makes about 6psi of boost with these settings.

NLTS is set for 5000rpms. I may change this to just subtract rpms instead of just a fixed set limit for when the clutch is depressed. This setup works, but you can't flat shift if you're shifting under 5000rpms....

Fuel map is tuned for 12:1 ratio in the mid rpms and tapering to 11.5:1 in the upper RPMs. Timing has as much as 7 degrees over stock in some areas but a few degrees taken out in others. Gives the car a flatter torque curve with no knock!

Boost control is maintained by the stock BCS and hasn't been modified in any way! Simply maxing the duty cycle gives 16psi spike which tapers to about 11psi at the red line. Removing the restriction pill will give more boost, but I am limited by the stock BOV, stock fuel system (fuel pump is NOT rewired) and the age of the ignition system.

Anyway, eventually it becomes my turn to stage. Foot to the floor, motor bounces off the limiter, car pops and shakes as it should. Stage turns green and I drop the clutch!

Massive wheel spin all the way thru first and the clutch seemed sloppy grabbing second. Right foot never left the metal the whole way down the track! Clutch in, RPMs automatically fall and the next gear comes so fast, the pressure in the intake hardly drops. Third gear comes and the dreaded spark blow out peaks out to say hello... Still cleared up above 6000rpms and the knock Check Engine Light never made an appearance! Crossed the line just under redline.

I knew I had a great pass and couldn't wait to get my slip!

Pull up to the booth, received the paper and before I had a chance to look at it, another gentleman comes up and tells me I need to exit the premises for no helmet.... I asked if it was okay to borrow one and he told me no. I had to leave.

As I'm pulling back into the pits to get my tools, I about jumped out the window when I glanced at the time slip!

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I'm still in shock and awe! SO DAMN CLOSE to a 12 and I know the car can do it! With a little tweaking to the launch control settings the 60ft could have been better and I have a fresh set of OEM wires with copper plugs waiting to be installed. Next visit...

So here's a glimpse with what a flash ECU can do for you! I see no reason why another completely stock VR4 with a tune like this can't put down this kind of power. Assuming it's well maintained of course!

so lets se... was using launch control and nlts feature and running more timing and almost double the boost. ok i will give him that for a 9b car it was fast.

But by using the reflashed ecu he was able to bypass alot of the stock limitations. but at the same time i would bet you that 9 out of 10 cars in the supposed same condition would pop the motor if you tried this.

this would be like strapping a 250 shot of nos on a car for 1 run and not caring about the car afterwords. it was to prove he could reflash the ecu.

And his best run of 12.5 was done with 100 octane fuel to help with the predetonation so he could run more timing to get more out of the setup.

and onto the nt the fastest non turbo was 14.1 but i know for a fact terry from maximal performance got close to a 12 with nitrous.

but neither of these are YOUR car which can kill 16g dsm's without effort. a 1g bone stock dsm dose a 1/4 in a hair over 15 sec, with a 16g and stock boost(wtf) you dont think you could shave 1 second off the time to take care of the fast list nt, which i repeat is NOT YOURS.

lets just end this now.

brent rau 6 sec eclipse is faster than matt monets 8 sec tt stealth. And there are more 8 and 9 second eclipses than 10 second 3/s cars.

game over.

I will always love 3/s cars but stop trying to pull obscure references and quotes to make your argument. All this does is spread the hate.

 

[BlackMount]

Ive never raced a dsm from a dig. I dont race from a dig period. I bet theyd beat me everytime if i raced them from a dig.
Only videos i have of the car in action on the street was sound test, and me being chase car filming my friends talon vs liter bike. My car was very stock at the time.

I have my last dyno vid,ill be dynoing it again on the 22nd. Aiming for 200whp.

I will see about having my friend send me the high runs of the car. 1st run was 145ish then let out, 2nd was close 148ish

Im not bench racing i know what my car does.

 

[3kgt2nv]

Lol yes it is. Ive put several in their place, friends on here who can back this up. I actually ran my friends 16G talon last night he was on stock boost.

Ran another that had a 16G also stock boost, chip (key diver i think), and exhaust and we were pretty even.

A 2G with fmic, exhaust dunno what boost.

And a few stock ones.

It is definetly faster then my 14B laser was on 15 psi with exhaust and intake.

I dynod 187whp last dyno day. Added a few things and I am hoping for 200whp next dyno day this July.

so just like every kid in a honda you race from a roll. show me one track that lets you cross the start gate at a 40 roll and ill bow down to you.

but since you want to race from a roll ill put $5000 ill still beat you with a 16g from a roll. i pick 140 to go from. oh you cant even do that i guess i win.

rolling start isnt a race unless you know you already lost from a dig. its why you go awd for quick launches or rwd for big top end. if fwd was so great people would ride big wheels instead of bicycls

 

[BlackMount]

Ive never raced a dsm from a dig. I dont race from a dig period. I bet theyd beat me everytime if i raced them from a dig.
Only videos i have of the car in action on the street was sound test, and me being chase car filming my friends talon vs liter bike. My car was very stock at the time.

I have my last dyno vid,ill be dynoing it again on the 22nd. Aiming for 200whp.

I will see about having my friend send me the high runs of the car. 1st run was 145ish then let out, 2nd was close 148ish

Im not bench racing i know what my car does.

My argument is NOT which car i faster overal. Stock to stock the 3/s is faster.. Potentially maybe the 3/s could make more power if u put enough money into it because of the ability to have a 4100cc displacement. But i never said it was faster. My argument is the 3/S is not some big heavy POS that cant even make 500hp like so many people (mainly dsm owners it seems) think it is. My Argument is also they r not comparable, two completely different cars, that r in two completely different catagorys with different intentions that focus on two different forums of racing.



The Evo compared to a GVR4 would be legit. Both 4 door turbo grocery getters/sport sedans.

Actually TNRSCCA often lets u do rolling starts or lets u get some extra space from the starting gate but its only so mamy feet or x amount of mph. I dont luanch at autocross either, i lightly take off.

And my friends 700hp+ talon was only raced from a dig at Shootout, never on the street. Does that make him dumb? Nope hes just saving his trans.

 

[canada4g63]

I don't think theres a war between the two but seems like this thread stire the pot. Honesty when i'm in my gsx or colt i get evo,3k other dsm owners giving me the thumbs up.

 

[cl1ckclack]

Ive never raced a dsm from a dig. I dont race from a dig period. I bet theyd beat me everytime if i raced them from a dig.
Only videos i have of the car in action on the street was sound test, and me being chase car filming my friends talon vs liter bike. My car was very stock at the time.

I have my last dyno vid,ill be dynoing it again on the 22nd. Aiming for 200whp.

I will see about having my friend send me the high runs of the car. 1st run was 145ish then let out, 2nd was close 148ish

Im not bench racing i know what my car does.

dude. your cars not fast. just stfu before you embarrass yourself more. turbo DSMs can make 200whp with the simple free mods...

 

[BlackMount]

Never said my car was fast. Its quick for a 20 year old mid model car. But fast no.

 

[3kgt2nv]

They are two totally different cars that were not even marketed the same or to the same people. The problem so far is in your attemp to set the record straight you spouted out incorrect information not one but many times. There are many ways to spread good will about a platform and i fear that your effort here failed because you came improperly prepaired with the correct information.

Your post #7 which i already disputed was a good example of this misrepresentation of information. Your right it isnt about racing or platform. A better topic would be why does every other platform disregard mitsubishi as a whole company. Not just one car

 

[Boostit]

That's kind of the point.. I haven't seen an Anti-3s thread here in a long time. Your thread causes unwanted attention to the theory you have. I was a DSMr for 12 years.. never hated any 3s or 3s owners. I always thought these cars were beautiful but out of my price range in more ways than one. I only own now because I am in a place where the cost of the mod doesn't effect me like it used to.

As for what other people think, I could care less if people think a 3s cannot make decent power or good track times. I enjoy the car. DSM's are my roots, not my enemies.

 

[donniekak]

I've owned both cars for years. I'll never mod a 3000 past boltons, its just not cost effective.

One of the problems with the 3s scene is most of the owners haven't worked on other platforms, and don't have a basic grasp of how modding, and tuning work. It also doesn't help that the fastest 3s is tuned on a piggyback fuel controller. So most owners believe a good tuning solution isn't needed.

 

[omega260]

Never said my car was fast. Its quick for a 20 year old mid model car. But fast no.

Its not even quick.