2g talon, spun a rod

[dboyle23]

hey guys,

I am looking at a 2g AWD talon on craigslist that has a spun rod. Otherwise, the tranny is good and has an n1 exhaust. I have been looking for a project car to work on even though I am not completely mechanically inclined. I think it would be a fun project. Hes asking 600. No rust and the body is in great shape. 140k miles on the car.

My question is this. Since the car has a spun rod, how much more (besides new rods) would I need to purchase to get the car up and running? If I take it apart what else would FOR SURE need to be replaced? Just gaskets? I know that it's hard to say without actually LOOKING to see what else might need replacement. Other question, is there a link to a website with a guide on rebuilding the 4g63t?
I have all the tools I would need, I just need a good guide. Or any good books?
Thanks guys.

 

[delta448]

Is the rod big end broken off and welded to the crank's rod journal yet?

Or is it just a little rod knock right now?

I'd question why it spun before rebuilding the block. Oil starvation, poor clearances... etc.

To answer your question the best I can without knowing more;
New OEM oil pump / front case
Replace crankshaft
New rod(s)
New bearings everywhere
Rebalance the assembly
Bore hone and new rings while it's easy
Check/resurfacing as needed for your deck surfaces
New timing belt
BSE kit
Plug the 2G piston oil jets, install 1G squirters -or do without if your pistons are forged
Replace all gaskets

 

[dboyle23]

He said the turbo blew and he thinks that made it starve oil? Make sense? . The rod broke off.

Is it an OK deal? 600 bucks?
Here are pics:

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[2g 6 bolt swap]

The block needs a rebuild no questions asked. I personally would buy it. Engine builds are a walk in the park after doing a few. But if you don't know what your doing it will be tough, but a great learning experience.

 

[Tyeler18]

Grab a drop in 7 bolt motor, do all the maitenence (timing belt, headgasket wouldn't be a bad idea, gaskets etc etc) and be good to go.

 

[dboyle23]

Yeah I am thinking I am going to buy it.
1. It will be a fun learning experience.
2. Finishing it will be a cool feeling.
3. I could always just resell it if I feel I am in over my head.

Questions,

Would just an engine rebuild kit be sufficient? I have seen them for about $500 with rods and pretty much everything. Any suggestions on what rebuild kits are good? Also, would I need to rebuild the head too? Lastly, is the Chilton manual a good option for a step by step rebuild?

 

[Guilty1s]

You should part out the AWD swap to meh.

 

[1Bad4G63T]

I'd venture a guess that the exhaust and wheels on the car alone are worth more than the 600 bucks he asking for it...chances are if he's snapped a rod that he's spun the bearings and done significant damage to the crank...all in all the car is definitely worth the 600 bucks...if all else fails you can part it out and make a killing.

 

[dboyle23]

Yeah I agree about the worth of the wheels and exhaust.

I just sent an email to see if he has the title in hand. If so, I might go pick it up tomorrow!

Another question. Better to just buy a rebuild kit or a stock longblock and go through the head and check it out, and if its ok toss it on the longblock?

 

[niddydsm]

Yeah if the head checks out just throw it on. To rebuild it if money isnt the issue or if you dont mind waitin a lil while. I would buy forge rods and pistons just so u dont have to go through it all again later on

 

[dboyle23]

Well, I am thinking that a 16g is all I will be going up to. Forged isn't required for this right? If it's not much more expensive then OEM rods I might as well get them though....hmmmm.

 

[1Bad4G63T]

look at buying a used 6 bolt engine in good condition and throw in some 2g pistons and yank the 2g head off the engine your pullin...the 1g (6 bolt) rods are more durable...like wise the 2g pistons are stronger than the 1g...and the 2g head will flow better...not to mention...and yes I know it's not that common...but throwing it out there anyways....6 bolt bottom ends tend to suffer crankwalk less....if you do this you'll be good up to a 20g pretty easy with only minor bolt on mods to the engine (fuel injectors and maybe an intercooler)

Edit: Also...and just regurgitating this...I've heard the 6 bolts have forged cranks stock...I always let someone else deal with the bottom end on mine...so cant verify that

 

[niddydsm]

how lbs of boost are you looking forward to?

 

[dboyle23]

I would probably run around 19-21. And that sounds good about the 6 bolt witht he 2g head. I see alot more 6 bolts for sale than I do 7 bolts.

 

[niddydsm]

Ive heard of running 17lbs on stock internals on a 6 bolt. Havent heard about 19lbs but seeing how that is alot more than stock i would forge anyways.. anyone correct me if im wrong.

 

[1Bad4G63T]

Yeah...you're right...approaching the 20psi mark is tempting fate...even with a hybrid 6/7 bolt...although I've seen 450+hp eclipses running 11's in the quarter on all stock internals...but for the sake of saving 800 bucks? I'd just go ahead and swap over to forged at the pressure rates you're looking at.

 

[dboyle23]

Well 17psi would be a little low for a 16g, I would want to run a smaller turbo then, maybe just a 14b. Theyre super cheap anyway.

So the best route to take would be this:
If block is ok get a 7bolt crankshaft and new rods.
If block is BAD get a 6bolt block and crankshaft and use the 2g pistons with new 1g rods.

Is this good?

 

[1Bad4G63T]

that's most likely what I would...I mean...budget minded...this should offer you a nice balance between mild power increase and reliability

 

[dboyle23]

My fiance has a 99 gsx with a t25 running at 15psi. Full exhaust and intake, it pulls pretty nice. Would it be a big difference to run the 14b?

 

[delta448]

Edit: Also...and just regurgitating this...I've heard the 6 bolts have forged cranks stock...I always let someone else deal with the bottom end on mine...so cant verify that

Not forged. All stock 4G63 cranks are cast, but with nitride hardening treatment on the journals.

Ive heard of running 17lbs on stock internals on a 6 bolt. Havent heard about 19lbs but seeing how that is alot more than stock i would forge anyways.. anyone correct me if im wrong.

Consider yourself corrected. A stock 6 bolt bottom end has proven solid enough to hold together at cylinder pressures creating over 500awhp. You won't be hitting that mark with that boost level.

Yeah...you're right...approaching the 20psi mark is tempting fate...even with a hybrid 6/7 bolt...although I've seen 450+hp eclipses running 11's in the quarter on all stock internals...but for the sake of saving 800 bucks? I'd just go ahead and swap over to forged at the pressure rates you're looking at.

I'm not quite sure what to think of your post...
There's a fairly large difference between an 11.99 featherweight and a 11.01 full weight. No barely 11 second timeslip will ever cause me to lose any sleep over whether or not the stock pistons and rods are going to crap the bed.

 

[1Bad4G63T]

you may notice some difference in spooling time...but it will be negligible at best...I dont know tons about the T25...but I'm sure someone else will give you exact run downs on performance differences...nothing an SAFC cant compensate for though, I'm sure.

Not forged. All stock 4G63 cranks are cast, but with nitride hardening treatment on the journals.


Consider yourself corrected. A stock 6 bolt bottom end has proven solid enough to hold together at cylinder pressures creating over 500awhp. You won't be hitting that mark with that boost level.


I'm not quite sure what to think of your post...
There's a fairly large difference between an 11.99 featherweight and a 11.01 full weight. No barely 11 second timeslip will ever cause me to lose any sleep over whether or not the stock pistons and rods are going to crap the bed.

^ there you have it man...I'd listen to this guy...as I said before...the hybrid build up of stock internals is just stuff I picked up along the way...a quick glance at my car will indicate that this is not at all my area of expertise

 

[dboyle23]

Consider yourself corrected. A stock 6 bolt bottom end has proven solid enough to hold together at cylinder pressures creating over 500awhp. You won't be hitting that mark with that boost level.

This is what I wanted to hear . 16g all the way then!

I am thinking to get a 6bolt block and crankshaft and then use 2g pistons with 1g rods. That seems like its the smartest setup seeing as how I need to replace things anyway.

Would I need anything else to switch from a 7bolt bottom end to a 6bolt to make it function properly with the 2g head?

 

[niddydsm]

so with a 6 bolt as long as u have the fuel to match the amount of air into the cyl we dont have to worry??

 

[1Bad4G63T]

yeah...and possibly an intercoolers...you want to keep those combustion chamber temps and egt's down....running lean because of undersized fuel injectors is the fastest way to toast a good engine...avoid detonation and you should be okay.

 

[delta448]

Would I need anything else to switch from a 7bolt bottom end to a 6bolt to make it function properly with the 2g head?

1G CAS wired to provide both CAS and CPS signals.

so with a 6 bolt as long as u have the fuel to match the amount of air into the cyl we dont have to worry??

As long as the engine is healthy (good oil pressure, good compression test, good leakdown test) and tuned safely, I would not begin to worry about the durability of a stock 6 bolt until I started approaching 50+ lbs/min of airflow.