2g MAS on 1g DSMs?

[sc2_ct]

Okay, I tried searching but might be looking for the wrong terms or something. It seems that a lot of the posts I've read indicate that the MAS from a 2g car can be used on a 1g vehicle, while allowing you to use a BOV. Is this correct or am I way off base here?

 

[90DSMTurboFWD]

You can use a BOV with your stock MAF. But yes a 2g can be used on a 1g, but you still have to vent your BOV back into the intake.

The GM MAF and MAFT is the only setup that allows you to vent to atmosphere with no side effects

 

[BIGGSIE]

Yes you can put a 2G MAF on a 1G car. But I don't understand your question about the BOV. A 2G MAF flows alot better than the 1G but if you do the swap you WILL need an SAFC and possibly bigger injectors. I have a 2G maf on my car w/ 550 injectors and it is a pain to tune but seems to be worth it. If you need more info that that just ask.

Also check out the vfaq for installation how to's.

 

[sc2_ct]

Okay, I thought that I'd be able to use the 2g MAF and use BOV without recirculating, and to clean up the engine bay. I want to relocate the filter into the fender well for lower intake temps (and corespondingly lower compressor outlet temps), and by getting the 1g MAF out of my way it would give me more space for how I want to route my UIC piping.

I'm going to use either a Greddy eManage or the SAFC-2 for tuning anyway, so now it's just a matter of whether to use the 2g MAF with the SAFC, or use the MAFT. Does anyone happen to know if using the MAFT with either the SAFC-2 or the eManage causes any added difficulties in tuning? I'd assume you just set the dials on the MAFT to neutral values and pretty much leave it's tuning provisions unused?

 

[BIGGSIE]

I'll tell you that if I had to do it all over again I would get the 3"GM MAF and translator. From what I understand you just set the knobs on the MAF-translator for whatever injectors you are using and fine tune with the SAFC. With my 2G MAF setup I use a GM MAP sensor with my SAFCII (for throttle input) and it helps my partial throttle driving alot. Anyway I think tuning would be easyer with a MAF-T because you wouldn't have to rely on the SAFC for all your adjustments. Just my two cents

 

[1G/TS-ituner]

let me just ask why you need to put in larger injectors....first of all the 2nd gen MAS being larger than the stock 1g isnt going to affect anything but your spool time, and over all throttle responce....i came to this conclusion only because so long as you have a boost controller,or not, your not going to lean out your A/F mixture because putting a higherflowing MAS on there isn't going to increase your turbos boost level any higher than stock, so how the hell is it going to lean out??? now having explained my thoughts on this, if someone can explain to me why you would need larger injectors just for the swap please tell me in a well explained answer

 

[98eclipseRS]

1gtuner the 2g mas reads airflow different than the 1g mas, it still reads in the whole hz karman thing but the same amount of air doesn't show up as the same amount of hz that a 1g mas would show. That is if you have a 1g mas on your car and look at the hz it might be 1000hz(this is just for referance not real numbers) if you have the same car, smae everything with a 2g mas on there it would read say 750 hz. Well you could see how this would be a problem with ecu would not send enough fuel to the engine yo0u would run way to lean and end up messing shit up.

I forgot the statistic exactly but the 2g mas leans the 1g out i want to say in the 20% region. So you can either get an safc and richen the shit out of it or put larger injectors plus safc. the problem with putting just safc in is that by richening it up, you are in a sense inducing fuel cut(adding air that is not really comming into the engine). If you put 550's and a 2g mas into a 1g car you should not have any problems with tunning I ran fine for quite some time with a 2g mas and 550's in my 1g and no problems. Tunning wasn't that hard either, possibly a little more difficult than with just the 1g mas butr Inever tuned with the 1g mas so I don't have anything to compare it to.

sc2 you are thinking of the gm maf/t that is the only way to run your car venting to the atmosphere. the cold air idea in theory works but is not really worth the trouble. An efficient front mount will net larger gains than the cold air ever would. If you are not going for huge power just stick with a 2g mas, but if you want a cleaner engine bay plan on using some huge injectors and don't plan on going with a standalone then go with the gm maf/t. And good choice with the greddy emanage, I will be using it on my 2g once I ge some funds. Much cheaper than dsmlink and was more or less the premesis for dsmlink. and emanage also has a traction control function for us fwd guys. woot woot!!!!

 

[sc2_ct]

sc2 you are thinking of the gm maf/t that is the only way to run your car venting to the atmosphere. the cold air idea in theory works but is not really worth the trouble. An efficient front mount will net larger gains than the cold air ever would. If you are not going for huge power just stick with a 2g mas, but if you want a cleaner engine bay plan on using some huge injectors and don't plan on going with a standalone then go with the gm maf/t. And good choice with the greddy emanage, I will be using it on my 2g once I ge some funds. Much cheaper than dsmlink and was more or less the premesis for dsmlink. and emanage also has a traction control function for us fwd guys. woot woot!!!!

I'm going to be going with a larger FMIC as soon as I decide on which one I want, but I also want to get the filter out of the engine bay. Using the equation T2 = T2 (P2/P1)^0.283, a reduction of 20F on the inlet side will equate to a 25 degrees on the outlet side (or, 125% of the inlet temperature drop) on my setup (15psi). The HP gain is really beside the point though, I've been having problems with bogging due to heat-soak that I just find irritating.

Since this car is just my daily driver for now, I'm going to go for about 300-320whp. With the car being an auto, that seems like a comfortable spot. The car already has a larger (garrett) turbo, but I've really got to clean up the fuel system. I've seen too many people take out their cars by just doing fuel tuning the traditional way, so I'm a real fan of electronic controls (hey, if something can sample and trim 100's or 1000's of times per second, it's got to be better than "set it and forget it" right . The eManage just seems like a better and more flexible solution than the SAFC-2, although if I find a good deal I might still go with the Apexi unit.

 

[98eclipseRS]

well I am glad to see you know what you are talking about and not just trying to do something becuase it looks cool or you heard that it works(maybe the dsm community isnt as worse of as I think it is). As for the safc/emange thing you can still use the safc and the emanage at the same time. Oh and I higly recomend the buschur fmic for a 1g, the build quality and fitment are better than any other I have seen.

 

[sc2_ct]

Since this will just be a daily driver, I'm going to keep the tuning interface as simple as possible. If I ever get around to building it for racing, then I'll probably use a MegaSquirt fuel control computer and a MSD Programmable DIS-2 (mainly because I'll be using those on my Saturn when the turbo and engine are done, and it's easier to get very familiar with one route). Since the car is AWD with an auto I don't need anything for launch control, so either the SAFC-2 or the emanage should be fine (though the Greddy unit seems more fun to tinker with).

I've been playing with cars for a couple of years and have taken an interest in the science behind the technology (it's always better to operate on facts than fictions). I've found that there seems to be a good number of really knowledgable guys in the DSM scene. Of course, because the cars are easy to make big HP number on, relatively inexpensive and growing in popularity, you'll see inexperienced guys too, but all-in-all, I have to say the DSM scene has a good group of people.

 

[keltalon]

let me just ask why you need to put in larger injectors....first of all the 2nd gen MAS being larger than the stock 1g isnt going to affect anything but your spool time, and over all throttle responce....i came to this conclusion only because so long as you have a boost controller,or not, your not going to lean out your A/F mixture because putting a higherflowing MAS on there isn't going to increase your turbos boost level any higher than stock, so how the hell is it going to lean out??? now having explained my thoughts on this, if someone can explain to me why you would need larger injectors just for the swap please tell me in a well explained answer

this mofo is a complete indiot! read man please read!!

 

[keltalon]

1gtuner the 2g mas reads airflow different than the 1g mas, it still reads in the whole hz karman thing but the same amount of air doesn't show up as the same amount of hz that a 1g mas would show. That is if you have a 1g mas on your car and look at the hz it might be 1000hz(this is just for referance not real numbers) if you have the same car, smae everything with a 2g mas on there it would read say 750 hz. Well you could see how this would be a problem with ecu would not send enough fuel to the engine yo0u would run way to lean and end up messing shit up.

I forgot the statistic exactly but the 2g mas leans the 1g out i want to say in the 20% region. So you can either get an safc and richen the shit out of it or put larger injectors plus safc. the problem with putting just safc in is that by richening it up, you are in a sense inducing fuel cut(adding air that is not really comming into the engine). If you put 550's and a 2g mas into a 1g car you should not have any problems with tunning I ran fine for quite some time with a 2g mas and 550's in my 1g and no problems. Tunning wasn't that hard either, possibly a little more difficult than with just the 1g mas butr Inever tuned with the 1g mas so I don't have anything to compare it to.

sc2 you are thinking of the gm maf/t that is the only way to run your car venting to the atmosphere. the cold air idea in theory works but is not really worth the trouble. An efficient front mount will net larger gains than the cold air ever would. If you are not going for huge power just stick with a 2g mas, but if you want a cleaner engine bay plan on using some huge injectors and don't plan on going with a standalone then go with the gm maf/t. And good choice with the greddy emanage, I will be using it on my 2g once I ge some funds. Much cheaper than dsmlink and was more or less the premesis for dsmlink. and emanage also has a traction control function for us fwd guys. woot woot!!!![/QUOTE spoken like a pro!!

 

[98eclipseRS]

spoken like a pro!!

haha thanks bro