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2G 2g 7 Bolt Head Rebuild information

Posted by Jcoylesr76, Feb 21, 2020

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  1. Jcoylesr76

    Jcoylesr76 Probationary Member

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    Joined Apr 8, 2019
    Athens, Pennsylvania
    Greetings,

    Well finally decided how i would like to go with my GST Spyder, but would like to get some better information in regards to Head rebuild/upgrade parts to look into...

    Recently got a set of HKS 272's and i don't want to run stock internals with 100k miles on them. lots of information around just not a suggested list of everything else. valves, springs, etc. and want to do this work myself rather then buying a pre-built. will be going Holset xx35 turbo after the AWD swap is done. so definitely looking for some durability. (car is being downgraded from daily driver to occasional fair weather and track after the swap). short block will be rebuilt as well.So what are some part you guys went with. Thanks in advance. Jinxy Stock.jpg
     
  2. RWD4G63

    RWD4G63 Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 7, 2011
    Paw Paw, Michigan
    Kiggly street valve springs, GSC bronze guides (make sure they're installed to the correct height), Manley or stock valves if you're on a budget, Ferrea valves if you want the best. Kiggly HLA. New lifters and check your rocker arms and you're good to go.

    You'll want to have the head decked and a valve seat job done. The best is getting the valve seat radius cut, but most machine shops will do a 3-angle valve job which is acceptable.
     

    Road Race Build 306  3

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  3. Mello

    Mello Proven Member

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    Joined Jul 4, 2003
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    FYI-You can run HKS272 on the OEM valve train, springs, retainers, etc.
     
  4. TK's9d2TSi

    TK's9d2TSi Supporting Member

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    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020

    379  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    423  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 3K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.2 @ 120 · 1G DSM
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  5. spoolnmotorsports

    spoolnmotorsports Probationary Member

    23
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    Joined Feb 12, 2020
    Towson, Maryland
    Manly is good choice for your setup with room to grow. Agreed, grab the stm valve spring tool, will make the process a piece of cake
     
  6. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    wampum, Pennsylvania
    I wouldn't suggest bronze valve guides unless its an all out drag car, you will use oil and carbon up the combustion chamber and valves, the bronze is soft and will wear much more quickly than the stock sintered metal guides, have them checked and if they are in spec leave them alone, if they need replaced find another head or buy new stock replacements form Napa or the like, just randomly replacing valve guides is silly and can be very expensive as an entire valve seat cut is required afterwards rather than just a touch up of the seats, even worse is that if your seats can't be cut enough to get them concentric to the new guides, you then need entire new seats installed which is even more money, usually more than an entire brand new head. Also, you are then depending on a machine shop to not only have the tooling but the experience replacing the guides, and let me guarantee you that very few shops can actually do the job right without scrapping your head or leaving the new guides very loose in the head, opening the door to future failure.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020

    Drag Race Build 4K  24

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  7. RWD4G63

    RWD4G63 Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 7, 2011
    Paw Paw, Michigan

    Uhhhhh inaccurate. Bronze guides are slicker and tougher, they will not make your car use oil. If you have a sh**ty machine shop do them that doesn’t know how to hone guides, install them at the right depth, or put valve seals on maybe.
     

    Road Race Build 306  3

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  8. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    wampum, Pennsylvania
    I've installed enough of them I would know, they are slicker, they are softer though!, if you think that brass/bronze is tougher material than stock powdered metal then you need to take a second to think about it, also important to note is that our stock guides are not actually "steel" in the sense of regular steel guides, ours are a powdered metal alloy that has other things added to it that make it stronger than steel and is self lubricating as well.


    "Valveguide Materials
    Most OE engines built within the last 10 years use powder metal technology for making valveguides. Powder metal valveguides are typically made up of iron (FE), carbon (C), copper (Cu), (NI),(Mo),(Mn), (Sn), (Cr), (Co), (P), and can be impregnated with oil and/or dry lubricants. So basically, the lubricating elements that have been taken out of engine oil are manufactured into the component when it was produced. These semi-self lubricating powder metal valveguides will outlast bronze alloy type valveguide inserts in most applications. Bronze alloy valveguide inserts are intended to be used in cylinder heads that are serviced regularly, for racing applications, not 100,000-mile drivetrain warranties."


    "The factory PM guides are very good, because it's a powdered metal and not cast iron you can add in elements that normally wouldn't bind in a cast guide. Zinc is the component in these PM guides that gives them the lubricity of a typical bronze-manganese guide but with the load bearing capacity of an iron guide, this means you can run tight tolerances without the risk of galling or seizing.

    Bronze guides were originally put into use because stainless valves and cast iron guides do not play well together and will gall (transfer metal), but pretty much any stainless valve you buy these days has a chrome plated stem which eliminates this issue. Another reason for using bronze guides was upon bending a valve in your race motor a cast iron guide would many times shatter and cause extra damage where a bronze guide will just get deformed.

    End result, yes I do see accelerated guide wear with the stock rockers, high lift cams, and bronze guides, but the same damage can occur even with roller rockers if not setup with proper geometry."
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020

    Drag Race Build 4K  24

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  9. RWD4G63

    RWD4G63 Proven Member

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    Paw Paw, Michigan
    I’ve never seen a stainless valve with a chrome plated stem. You’re clearly quoting some post about a OHV engine. Stock guides crack all the time. We also have roller rockers. There’s a reason every high performance builder puts bronze valve guides in. If the stock guides were better, they would use them. I say tougher because they are more slick and don’t wear as fast. This isn’t a SBC with sh**ty valvetrain geometry.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020

    Road Race Build 306  3

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  10. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    wampum, Pennsylvania
    Engine builders install bronze because its easier to work with, way easier to machine and can be rebuilt in the future easier, that simple. The factory used sintered metal for a reason, they have to warranty these engines and they needed something that would last, I have personally ran two 4g63 to 300k miles and am still using the heads with the stock guides in them, they still measure plenty in tolerance, if they aren't broke, dont fix them. Stainless valves come with nitrided/carburized stems to be used in steel guides, regular valves come with chrome stems to be used in steel guides, you would have to hunt pretty hard to find a stem these days thats not compatible with a steel guide, and for that matter you would have to hunt even harder to find a factory guide that is steel and not a powdered metal composite that is made for chrome stems or whatever you can throw at them, compatibility these days is simply not an issue unless you go out of your way to make one of it, as I said doing it for a living vs a weekend hobby mechanic is very different, most people have never even seen a guide and seat machine let alone have ever used one.
     

    Drag Race Build 4K  24

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  11. RWD4G63

    RWD4G63 Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 7, 2011
    Paw Paw, Michigan
    I never said steel guides weren’t durable, merely that bronze were better from a performance standpoint and will last plenty long. I have seen probably 50 cracked factory guides. Not sure what kind of conditions they were subject to, but they were definitely cracked. I’ve used a seat and guide machine enough to know how they work, not sure what the actual machining process has to do with if. PM guides are just as easy to install as bronze ones. I guess if you’re trying to get infinite mileage out of your high performance engine, run the steel ones, but that’s not my mentality when putting together an engine for a performance application.
     

    Road Race Build 306  3

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  12. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    wampum, Pennsylvania
    Bronze guides are good for performance, sure are. Just not as durable thats all, that is my only point.
     

    Drag Race Build 4K  24

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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    RWD4G63 likes this.
  13. RWD4G63

    RWD4G63 Proven Member

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    Paw Paw, Michigan
    Well we agree on that! Thanks for having a friendly back and forth, this thread is now much more informative for people!
     

    Road Race Build 306  3

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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