20g 50trim spool up characteristics

[90AWDTalon]

I currently have an EVOIII 16g, I autoX alot and have been going to the local 1/8th mile drags. I run 7.50's in the 1/8th which puts me in the 7.99 to 7.5 bracket. I would like to get into the bottom of the 7.49 to 7.00 bracket. I think I'm pretty close to maxing out the evoIII, aside from running race gas and installing cams and a SMIM. Also, this may sound alittle crazy, but even with all wheel drive and R-compound tires, the turbo spools too fast and hits too hard to put any power down comming out of the corners on the autoX course.

So with this in mind I've been keeping my eye's open for a good used 50 trim or 20g. I think with either one of these turbo's I can make my 1/8 mile goals and hopefully not have lag problems on the autoX course but have slightly slower spool so I don't spin my tires so much.

I did a quick search about the spool characteristics of these two turbo's and found lots of info on when full boost is reached. But what I would like to know is when these turbo's start spooling and how fast they ramp up to full boost? I've got my eye on a used 20g with a td05 turbine that only available until tomarrow. Its way past my bedtime already, have to be at work at 5:00am, so I don't have time to keep searching. I was hoping you guys could help me out.

 

[DSM90AWD]

I currently have an EVOIII 16g, I autoX alot and have been going to the local 1/8th mile drags. I run 7.50's in the 1/8th which puts me in the 7.99 to 7.5 bracket. I would like to get into the bottom of the 7.49 to 7.00 bracket

7.5 1/8 puts you in the mid-11s in the 1/4 mile. There's a handful (maybe) quicker 16Gs at least on DSMTimes.

I cannot speak for the TD05-20G, but I have 50-Trim utilizing the TD05 housing w/stg3 wheel and it spools to 20psi by 4K (3800 without my FP2s). I dont' think this would be a very good option for Auto-X but with supporting mods would definitely get you lower ETs.

 

[90AWDTalon]

I cannot speak for the TD05-20G, but I have 50-Trim utilizing the TD05 housing w/stg3 wheel and it spools to 20psi by 4K (3800 without my FP2s).

What I'm curious to hear is when it starts making boost and how fast it spools. I'm more conserned with this area than full boost for autoX. I want alittle bit slower spool than the evoIII, but not too laggy. I already have traction problems with the evoIII, so I'm thinking slower spool on a bigger turbo mightl actually help.

 

[shleppy]

272's or a smim will slow down spool and also give you more top end. considering your mods and the boost your running I doubt your maxing out your evo3. How many pounds of air are you flowing? Maxing out the evo 3 is around 44-45 lbs.

 

[CanadianTSi]

272's or a smim will slow down spool and also give you more top end. considering your mods and the boost your running I doubt your maxing out your evo3. How many pounds of air are you flowing? Maxing out the evo 3 is around 44-45 lbs.

Considering he's running mid to high 11's I don't think the Evo has much left to give...

 

[90AWDTalon]

272's or a smim will slow down spool and also give you more top end. considering your mods and the boost your running I doubt your maxing out your evo3. How many pounds of air are you flowing? Maxing out the evo 3 is around 44-45 lbs.

I don't think the cams and smim would get me that 1/2 second drop in the 1/8 I'm looking for. Going from 7.5 to 7.00 is a big jump. I was running more boost than what is listed in my profile, I'm not sure how much. I started the day at 20psi, then kept increasing each run until I started knocking. When I made the 7.5 passes I would guesstimate around 24-25psi. I logged 44 lb/min at 6800 rpm's on one of the 7.5 passes, and have logged as high as 46 lb's. But I'm not confident in the accuracy of these logs because of the GM maf I'm running.

But back to the question at hand. I'm looking to hear about the spool up characteristics of 20g's and 50 trims. I already know when they make full boost, and I'm already aware of possible alternatives to swapping turbo's.

 

[CanadianTSi]

My to4e 50 trim spools pretty fast in second. Obviously if you get on it at 2500 it's kinda slow, slowly building 5-10 but past that it comes on hard and fast. If you punch it at 4k in 2nd redline comes up real quick.

Even though my old Evo would make 20psi by about 3200 you wouldn't really start to feel the pull until 4k so with the 50 trim it's just instant pull. Boost respone after the shift is nice and quick also.

 

[90AWDTalon]

My to4e 50 trim spools pretty fast in second. Obviously if you get on it at 2500 it's kinda slow, slowly building 5-10 but past that it comes on hard and fast. If you punch it at 4k in 2nd redline comes up real quick.

Even though my old Evo would make 20psi by about 3200 you wouldn't really start to feel the pull until 4k so with the 50 trim it's just instant pull. Boost respone after the shift is nice and quick also.

Thanks, this is the kind of reply I'm looking for. About what rpm do you think you reach 10psi when get on it at low rpm? So spool is very fast after 4k, what about if you punch it around 3000 or 3500 rpms?

 

[DSM90AWD]

I compiled a recent datalog along with an Excel Dyno calculator which has proven pretty accurate in showing WHP if you wish to DOWNLOAD

This pull was in 2nd gear starting at around 2500 RPMs at 20psi. You can check the slope of the tork curve which starts to go (+) around 3250 RPM.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Thanks, this is the kind of reply I'm looking for. About what rpm do you think you reach 10psi when get on it at low rpm? So spool is very fast after 4k, what about if you punch it around 3000 or 3500 rpms?

Spool is instant at 4k and very fast at 3500.

I probably have 10psi around 3400ish, i'll try to watch next time i'm out.

20psi+ comes by around 3800, it's hard to tell as rpms are rising really quickly at that point.

 

[90AWDTalon]

I compiled a recent datalog along with an Excel Dyno calculator which has proven pretty accurate in showing WHP if you wish to DOWNLOAD

This pull was in 2nd gear starting at around 2500 RPMs at 20psi. You can check the slope of the tork curve which starts to go (+) around 3250 RPM.

Was that pull on the same setup as the dyno sheet you have posted under your username?

I might try make a spread sheet like that with one of my logs. Was the horsepower and torque calculated from lb/min?

 

[90AWDTalon]

CanadianTSi, was your posted dyno sheet of your current 50trim?

 

[CanadianTSi]

CanadianTSi, was your posted dyno sheet of your current 50trim?

Nope, that was my Evo 3 setup, trapped 110.8mph a few days before I dyno'ed. That dyno reads ultra low and I had a misfire. On 20psi and Pump Gas BTW.

 

[DSM90AWD]

Was that pull on the same setup as the dyno sheet you have posted under your username?

No, my dyno run was minus the cams and wasn't really very good #s as the Dyno had inadequate cooling fans and my FMIC is pretty small (heatsoaked by 6K). It should give a good idea of spoolup from 3K-5K in 3rd though.

I might try make a spread sheet like that with one of my logs. Was the horsepower and torque calculated from lb/min?

The worksheet dyno uses RPM change over time (i.e accelerometer). It uses user-variables for gear ratio, drag coef, temp, weight to give a pretty good estimate. By no means replaces a true dyno, but does give you a good idea of before/after performance changes from a short 2nd gear pull/datalog.

I can send you a copy of the worksheet if you want, PM me your e-mail.

 

[90AWDTalon]

Nope, that was my Evo 3 setup, trapped 110.8mph a few days before I dyno'ed. That dyno reads ultra low and I had a misfire. On 20psi and Pump Gas BTW.

I know what you mean about that dyno reading low, the dyno sheet I posted was on one. Was kind of a bummer, paid a bunch of money to see what I was making but didn't really find out. I already had it tuned well. The Dyno operator even told me that their dyno was just good for tunning as it is one of if not the most consistent dyno's, just reads low.

 

[90AWDTalon]

No, my dyno run was minus the cams and wasn't really very good #s as the Dyno had inadequate cooling fans and my FMIC is pretty small (heatsoaked by 6K). It should give a good idea of spoolup from 3K-5K in 3rd though.

Just wondering because the curves were so different.

The worksheet dyno uses RPM change over time (i.e accelerometer). It uses user-variables for gear ratio, drag coef, temp, weight to give a pretty good estimate. By no means replaces a true dyno, but does give you a good idea of before/after performance changes from a short 2nd gear pull/datalog.

I can send you a copy of the worksheet if you want, PM me your e-mail.

PM sent. I did one based on lb/min of the log I made of the dyno pull I have under my user name. The horsepower curved match perfectly, the numbers didn't but I suspect that is a combination of my airflow reading alittle high and a dyno that reads ultra low. The torque curve was close, but slightly off. It'll be interesting to see what the worksheet comes up with, both for the curves and numbers.

 

[Steve93Talon]

I'm sorry, but I'm having a REALLY hard time believing you've run 7.50s on stock cams and pump gas. What was your 60'? Like others said, that's good for mid-high 11s, which would make you one of the fastest 16g cars ever (and in a group where everyone else has cams, FMICs, and race gas to run their times). I'd stick with the turbo you've got and throw in some FP1s and a JM intake. It'll raise the powerband slightly. Also, why not get some front and center LSDs and take full advantage of that power out of the corners instead of trying to make the car bog in an attempt to gain traction.

 

[hellotbone]

My turbo setup spools really quick when your in the power band. First gear is a writeoff if you get in it 7k comes up so fast you have to be damn sure your ready for it. Mine starts spooling at 3000 and by 3500-3800 I have full boost already and its charging for redline as if thats its job. It works really good I love the 50 trim.

 

[90AWDTalon]

I'm sorry, but I'm having a REALLY hard time believing you've run 7.50s on stock cams and pump gas. What was your 60'? Like others said, that's good for mid-high 11s, which would make you one of the fastest 16g cars ever (and in a group where everyone else has cams, FMICs, and race gas to run their times). I'd stick with the turbo you've got and throw in some FP1s and a JM intake. It'll raise the powerband slightly. Also, why not get some front and center LSDs and take full advantage of that power out of the corners instead of trying to make the car bog in an attempt to gain traction.

I'll take a picture of them and post them later today. If you look at my gallery you'll see a pic of when I ran a 7.645. On my 7.5xx runs I had 1.6xx 60ft times.

And once again please, all I want to hear is spool characteristics of the two turbo's I'm asking about. I'm aware of all my options.

 

[90AWDTalon]

My turbo setup spools really quick when your in the power band. First gear is a writeoff if you get in it 7k comes up so fast you have to be damn sure your ready for it. Mine starts spooling at 3000 and by 3500-3800 I have full boost already and its charging for redline as if thats its job. It works really good I love the 50 trim.

Thank you.

 

[CanadianTSi]

On my way to work this morning I confirmed that I get 10psi by 3400 in 3rd.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Just one more thing, I was looking at a log the other day and after my shift from 3rd to 4th in the span of 100rpms I went for 2lbs of airflow to 22lbs of airflow(low from the s-afc correction)

So there's your boost response after the shift.

 

[90AWDTalon]

Just one more thing, I was looking at a log the other day and after my shift from 3rd to 4th in the span of 100rpms I went for 2lbs of airflow to 22lbs of airflow(low from the s-afc correction)

So there's your boost response after the shift.

Thanks. I was hoping that 10psi would hit closer to 3000 rpm's. But I don't often drop below 3500 rpm's except on tight hairpins, I guess it could be good motivation to learn to left foot brake. Doesn't look like boost response between shifts is going to be a problem.

 

[90AWDTalon]

Thanks for all the 50 trim info. I would like to hear from some people running 20g's and holset HX35's.

There's a Bullseye to4B 50 trim for sale in the classifieds, its not available for a couple of weeks, if I haven't found something else by then I'll probably get that. I did alot of research on the to4b, not alot of info out there. But what I found was it used to be an option on the AGP L2 and L2R, so I would assume that it must not be crap if AGP was using them. Also it's a little bit smaller and has a smaller AR than the to4e, but I couldn't find any info on how much.

 

[90AWDTalon]

I'm sorry, but I'm having a REALLY hard time believing you've run 7.50s on stock cams and pump gas. What was your 60'?

Here's the time slips I said I would post.

http://home.comcast.net/~talonawd/751.jpg

This one's kind of hard to read. 7.525 with a 1.653 60ft.
http://home.comcast.net/~talonawd/752.jpg