2.4 Liter G4CS build thread

[snowborder714]

Logically the path should be invest in seat time ---> get good enough to push your car ---> figure out what you don't like about how it performs ---> address issues individually.

Believe me, I told him that a few times

Hopefully he'll get out there with his current setup this season and then throw in the 2.4 maybe over the winter or something.

 

[Atuca]

To be honest, I plan on heading out when Evan does. He says this summer maybe mid June. If that happens before I get bored enough to do the swap (or money ) I will go out than.

But just like your brother Brian, who bought his gsx bone stock and wanted to rebuild it, and do his entire rebuild/restoration, I think it has alot to do with we just enjoy working on the car. I wasn't even wanting to do this engine swap, and the guy selling me the g4cs has been ofering it to me for months. I just eventually ran out of things I wanted to mod otherwise, and felt an engine would be a good thing to learn on. Not to mention before I started building a motor I didn't have a very good understanding of how an engine works, so there was alot of learning involved (even from my first post on this thread I felt I have learned a good bit)

About the same time I got my engine I had to decide what my goals were, and I am defining them as road racing. The main reason I made this descion was that my car is at a point I do not feel safe driving it on the street. Both the thought of the my liscense being revoked for driving the car on public road ways and the thought I could get in a wreck because some idiot hits me and I lose the car I put so much time into, the thoughts are far too uncomforting. I chose to take it OFF the streets and make it race track only.

It really is just a personal call I suppose and some will drive their race car on the street and others won't. I am sure I might drive it to work one day and have some "fun" but I want a point A to point B car, not a ACT 2900 clutch / loud exhaust / looking for cops the whole time I drive car. Does that make sense?

That said I am in no rush to get the engine in, but I don't plan on delaying the build on grounds I don't "need" it. I'm just going along with the flow, much like blazebolt has with his build. He got his 4g64 block free, the only reason he is doing his build. Just having fun, going to the junk yard together when we got free time, and when it gets done it is.

Til than if track times hapens I would love to get in, Evan and I talked for over an hour about what he does on the track, how I get ready to go out, and where to sign up. It isn't free either >.< but that is the main reason I want to go out with a fellow DSMers, so if I need help I am not the only one out there. I don't got alot of friends who go out to the track or got the money to do it, and I don't want to be left at the track with no help to get me home.

Anyways, I do appreciate the concern and hope the build comes along as smoothly as people make it sound. It will be fulfilling to know the engine under my hood is my build.

 

[Evan K.]

Best mod a DSM'er can do= Second car

Second best mod a DSM'er can do= AAA Gold Membership

 

[juanpac0]

I just don't see how you ran out of stuff to do before you A. learned how to drive the car and B. done ANY suspension work at all - suspension could've kept you busy for another half a year easily but you say you ran out of things to do?

 

[Atuca]

so um.. thread bump!

I am back. Since last we spoke, having money to build an engine APPRENTLY was the same money my fiance thought would be a good idea to buy a house with.

I live in Tracy now and bought a 2006 civic daily driver just a few days ago, which means the gsx is no longer the DD and is ready for its build again.

I don't have many other eclipse updates since last I posted, but I did still make some changes.

I got some evo 9 recaros with some custom made brackets. I see everyone buying pre made from wedge engineering, but honestly this wasn't hard at all. A trip to home depot for 1/4" steel bars and some welds and bam I was good to go. I am still off by 1/2 inch on the fitment of the driver sit seat, and while I have the car apart I will fix it. But they do look like sex, especially with the car being a 99 black leather interior as it was. Sold the stock front seats for 400 bucks locally picked up. Paid 900 for the recaros. I'd say for 500 bucks it was def worth getting these seats.

Second project was evo 9 steering wheel. Picked it up for 30 bucks! its missing the air bag but I figure for 30 bucks I could make some custom cover for it and be just as happy. 20 bucks for the 1g steering wheel from pick and pull and for 50 total, I got a momo steering wheel. This is still pending welding. Anyone got any ideas on how I would get that 1g horn to work in it? I might be able to do something with it to sort of support the center cover I make for it or what not. Using the 1g horn just seemed easier than trying to make the 2g horn work somehow. But I havn't seen the wiring for either really or understand fully how it works. I just can tell that the 1g has to be pressed down in 1 of 4 corners to complete a circut.

hmm besides that,

been enjoying my brake swap http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/handling-tech/329154-evo-brake-swap-checklist.html

tried setting my car on fire http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/344807-grounded-battery-strut-bar.html

and am looking for an enging hoist http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/norcal-dsm-forum/348546-need-borrow-engine-hoist-tracy.html

Thats the 411 as of now, hoping all of you that were helping me before might be ready to answer more questions as I try to remeber exactly at what point I paused this project. See you soon!

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Good Thread. I also started my G4CS Build the other day as I started cleaning up the Head. Holy hell your seats are high up. I would have done them much shorter.

 

[Atuca]

The seats can be no lower if I wish to retain the sliding mechanism. The 4 pointing points of a seat are ALL different levels, and not in the shape of a square. MS PAINT SKILLZ FOR THE WIN!

they are all over the place. So when I made my custom brackets, I used the tallest floor mount hole as the top hole for all of the others. The other 3 had to come up off the ground at least as high as the highest of the 4 mounting points, if that makes sense. Than the sliders mount dirrectly on top of the 1/4 inch steel bars that give the flat surface, and the sliders are another 1/2 inch before the seat.

Im not sure how much sense that makes, but i have the seats as low as I can possibly get while retaining the sliders. the seat can tilt all the way foward and back, and slider up and down as intented, so really I think they are fine. But I am 5' 7" and any of my taller friends can not sit in the seat without it tilted way back. I mean the seat sitting next to the stockers is a noticeable difference in height, and mounting it made it just that much higher, but hey, I can see over my dash now

The only other idea I had was to mount it off the side of the highest point, but the problem is the seat still has to be tall enough at the base to clear the round nut that goes on top of the stud in the floor. Im open to ideas though if you have any.

 

[Atuca]

Didn't get a whole lot done today, only was motivated to get outside at 6pm when it finally gave cooler weather and a nice breeze. I got most of the passenger side of the car out, manage to drain the oil out and get the exhaut manifold loose. Tomorrow I should be able to get the turbo all out of there with the radiator, and hopefully be able to trace down all the other connectors on the drivers side that need to be undone.

This is the first time out of 3 engines where I actually have to take care of the car I'm pulling the engine out of, usually I just cut all the connectors as I pull the motor out

I know its not too exciting, but this is my build thread, something to remeber it all by, so enjoy the pics, more updates to come!

Just fyi, I am pulling the engine now before the g4cs is built because I am using the funds from selling the long block 7 bolt to go twards machining and gaskets for the new engine. The inbetween time, I plan on doing a rewire and putting the fuse box in or near or arround the glove box, I hope to follow closely what Eric is doing with his thread:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/hangout/298569-my-fuse-box-relocation-project-log.html

It truely is inspiring to see what some time and effort can go into making such a beautiful machine. I can only hope his efforts make mine a bit easier, because as I pull my engine, I am seeing more and more wiring mess revealing itself. Gonna be a fun project.

 

[Trav83]

Love those seats

 

[Atuca]

Man I must be slow compared to you guys! I was working on the car from 12 til 6, and this is all I managed! Well, it just needs the axels removed and the transfer case dropped, but I didn't expect it to take me almost all of today to complete this part. Oh wells. Sorry for the dark picture, but it is all I got for today. I found a local guy willing to let me borror his engine hoist so I will put this bad boy on my engine stand and strip it of anything I need for my swap.

Than the plan is for someone to pick up the 7 bolt and than I drop off the engine to be machined on.

I would like some help with the head though. The head came out of a donor car with a blown engine, still technically running. I think it was the number 4 piston was melted. Anyways, the head is still in the same shape it was in before. Now, what work do I need done to it? How do I check the valves, know if the valve guides are ok, and know if the springs are good to go for hks 272s.

While we are on that note, should I keep to my 272s? reading threads here on tuners and on fp's website, the fp2 and fp3 move the power band up. It isn't until 5/5.5k the fps give more power, and it isn't until almost 6.5k til when the stock manifold starves the engine for air. Now I am using a 1g intake mani and I think that test was done on a 2g. Do you think sticking to the 1g intake manifold and HKS 272 will be the best combo for the fp3052 or fp 3150 set up?

Reason I ask now is the setup I choose will have a direct impact on the work I do to the head. If all I have to do is resurface the head at the machine shop, that is alot cheaper for me. If thats the case I think I'll just get the evo springs, but even that I am not too sure what the benefits are. I just know I was told to do it.

 

[ALP584]

When I was assembling my head, I took the head as is and had a very reputable machine shop that deals with imports as well as domestics completely check the head for factory tolerances. Afterwards, they washed the head and gave me a green light. I took the head home and assembled the new valves, springs & retainers, 3g lifters, and the Delta camshaft 280's. Put everything back together and it runs like a dream, I did however check and made sure that the valves were seated properly. Oh and the machine shop gave me a really good price to check everything and wash the head.

 

[Atuca]

Well I didn't see the local guy with the hoist today, perhaps because it is a weekday, so I continued to the interior of the car. I ripped everything out, and I learned something today too.

I already knew my dsm was a money sink, taking all my extra money just to keep happy, but I never thought it stoop to the levels I found after removing my carpet.. IT STOLED MY SPARE CHANGE MONIES!! Found almost 10 bucks in change. So woot for weight reduction and woot for making money on my dsm today!

Aside from that, nothing special happened, except I noticed something strange with the 10 cd changer. It looks like either A) Mitusbishi is REALLY freaking lazy, just cutting the panel to install the stock 10 cd changer. or B) who ever bought my car originally, s/he added it and cut the side panel. I dunno which way it was but I didn't expect this when taking it out. Now I am gonna have to source this piece at a junk yard.

Pulled the windshield washer resovouir, and have no idea how to get the line that goes through the firewall out. I figure as of now I will just pull it out when I get the dash finished and pulled. I pulled my aftermarket alarm system out and the 30 crimps and ghetto connected wires. I was originally just going to rewire the engine bay, and now I am considering rewiring the interior as well.

I figure I am removing probably half the functionality the interior originally had (if you would call it that) and adding half a dozen aftermarket gauges. Rewiring would allow the usage of switches that had the purpose of fog lamps, for example, to be used as a switch for running my fuel pump so that I may make a second tune on race gas or something. I dunno yet, but the idea is intriging.

I only have a camera phone to take photos with since I am on my own. I'll keep posting pics for the sake of having pictures, sorry for the quality.

 

[Ludachris]

Can you post the build up to this point in a blog entry so it's easier to follow along? If you need to start a thread to ask questions on how to proceed in a build, that's perfectly okay. But if you're posting pics and information to show your progress, it's much easier for us to follow along in a blog entry so we don't have to read all the feedback replies mixed in with your updates. Please refer people to the blog for the updates instead of posting them in the thread where you're getting feedback. Thanks.

 

[Atuca]

Well all the prep work made the actual pulling engine day take just a few hours, one of which was carrying the engine stand from the neighbors house on 3 wheels. But who am I to complain, I got my engine out for free.

Besides that usual, I discovered a few problems.

A) my passenger axel's boot came undone, and the sealing clamp was no where to be found. I just replaced this with a lifetime warrenty axel within the year, but I have no idea what is causing the axel to do this....

B) My clutch seems to have taken some damage, from some unknown cause. It looks like rock chips, but I don't see any loose metal or anything in the transmission. It is pretty dirty in the tranny housing, but nothing that seems like it would cause damage like the pressure plate took. It appears to be only cosmetic besides some slight spidering cracks at the very edge on one side of the pressure plate.

I will have to go pick up a new axel, but that isn't a huge concern as much as understanding what caused it to fall apart again. I will also need to change out my wheel bearing in the rear, and really I need a new suspension anyways for track use. I plan to try and budget a full coil over system while I got the down time for the car, and need to change control arms as well too (I've had ripped boots there since my brake swap).

Now, I just need to strip the 7bolt of everything I will need for the 6bolt transfer and than sell the motor to help fund the rest of the g4cs build. But that will be for tomorrow, more updates as available!

For the purpose of this thread, anyone know what could of happened to my clutch, if that spidering/cracks on the top of the flywheel anything to take notice of? does it look like normal wear for a clutch with 1.5 years on it? Anyone know anything about what would cause cv boots to just come apart like it did? Nothing is physically in the way of it, so i not sure if there is something else that would cause it to prematuraly fail like this.

and finally, what do I need to take off the 7 bolt block? I got the motor mount for example, but do I need to pull the timing belt cover off and pull off stuff in there? the 3 studs on the drive side of the engine where the motor mount connected to need to come off? Anything else in there I need to pull out? I am going to run a 1g TB to mate up to the 1g intake manifold, but should I keep the 2g TB for any of the sensors on it? As this is a race car I don't need any emissions, but Im not sure what sensors I will need to copy over, and what will be blocked off and not needed anyways. If I could find or be directed to a link with what to keep for a 6 bolt swap part from a 2g 7 bolt, Im all ears.

And if there are any other random comments on how to do something better, feel free to speak up. Sold my 16g for a good price so I will take that to go twards the engine work. I might just start with the block, because I really feel like I need some more help with deciding what I should do with the head, or at the minimum I need to do some more research on other people's builds and see how their's turned out, but to be honest, g4cs builds on the road course seems to not be a very popular choice in comparisson to a 2.3 liter. I would hate to base my descion off a 2.3 if there will be any significant change or notice I need to be aware of. Not to mention turbo descion and combination of other parts. Never seems to be what I have planned.

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Pictures available through my blog as per request of the big man in charge.

DSM Forums - Atuca

 

[Atuca]

Alrighty, time for an update!

I apologize in advance for not having pictures, but it really isn't all that exciting looking at pictures of a dirty car

The break down is COMPLETE!

The engine wiring harness is out after alot of hassle. Following those lines all around and disconecting dozens of connectors scratched my hands up pretty good, but they are all out now.

The Dash also came out with a good bit of work. All the HVAC cores, all the ducting is out, the firewall carpet/padding, I'll admit ripping all that stuff out was fun. I had a big box I was using to dump all the stuff into so I could weight it, but the box got too big and heavy to move around. All I can say now is DSM weightloss is great! I'll have to get a curb weight after I'm done with everything.

Without a picture it will be har to descibe, but my ETS Ultra Short Route FMIC developed a hole. The hard piping that goes through the firewall eventually developed a hole on the bottom side nearest to the radiator support beam that had to be trimmed. While the piping was not resting on it, it appears overtime bumps in the road ect caused it to cut it slowly over time, and by the time I got to it, it has a slash about an inch wide, netting a small hole. I assume the core and piping is aluminum, so welding that back together will have to be done, taking that into consideration. A major bummer to find.

I did make a trip to two junk yards, only to find very little dsms. I am still looking for a 1g TB, but my luck netted 0 turbo 1g dsms.. However, I did find a 2g without the 10cd changer in the back, so I grabbed that paneling to give my car a clean look in the back instead of the holes that were in my paneling.


------------------------------


Now for the questions/thoughts


ABS, the big war, to keep it or not to keep it. From my research, abs is good, stops nearly as fast as non abs if the driver was paying attention. but if you have a modded car, lighter than stock car, bigger brakes than stock, the ABS system doesn't know any of that and doesn't function properly. I understand the process and the required parts for the swap, but can someone say, "yes your research is right, get rid of that abs FFS!!!" I am a new track driver and not having to worry about brakes locking up sounds like easy fun, but if I'm paying attention, if I can stop the car faster without ABS, I will ditch it. Comments please.


SRS air bags. I got an evo steering wheel to drop in, so that is one air bag gone. I don't anticipate any passengers besides instructors for the first few months. Has anyone deleted SRS from their car along with all the wiring for it, or should I keep the air bag to keep my passenger safer? Thoughts? I think removing would just make life easier. 4/5 point harness > all


Window Tinting. What do you guys suggest for on the track with window tinting. Research I've found shows that drivers get really hot in their car out on the track when it is a hot day, especially when they are at the level where they have to wear fire retardant suits. I am considering window tint to try and help keep those temps down. Do you think that would help, or just hurt visibility?


As for Engine questions, in order to have the block machined, what else do I need to buy? Do I have to buy the piston and crank bearings, buy the arp head studs, and everything basicly to assemble the bottom end, or can they use a torque plate without using my head studs to bolt it to. Im not sure how the process works entirely. Or do I just drop off the rods pistons, crank and block and say have fun? Do I need to know what gaps and space I need for clearences or will the shop figure that out with wiseco and eagle?

Thats its for updates and question, looking foward to some of the answers!

 

[turbosax2]

This alone convinced me to keep abs.
DGs Autocross Secrets aka Autocross to Win

Without the driver airbag plugged in, the passenger one won't work. So you might as well ditch it.

 

[Atuca]

Hey turbosax2, was wondering when you or your bro would chime in. As I have followed your thread, I did come across that article. He does state that with modification to the brakes, tires, weight of the car you can out brake the abs all day long.

He lists advantages as wet weather, and rounder tires. Since this is a track only car, how often will I be out in the rain? Do sanctioned events run rain or shine in california? Im not sure of what class I will be thrown in yet (probably the highest since I got a non stock engine and all the modifications done) but I am looking at thunderhill, infinion, and leguna seca.


It sounds like long as I know what im doing I am better off without it. What reasons specifically from that article and/or other research is convincing you to keep yours? Besides the fact the abs lines are in my way of a perfectly clean looking engine bay, I think we are talking about 23 lbs here. I would say this is worth debating. Threads I keep coming across are littered with discussion of "how", but few answer "why".

As for the SRS, good work there sir. I will rid myself of it.

May I ask why you didn't consider rewiring your interior. Let me rephrase that, why didn't you? for example, with your HVAC all gone, all the wiring behind there is just dangling connectors. Don't you want to get rid of all that? I believe me and you have similar mindsets when it comes to this "restoration" and knowing I have connectors like that behind/under my dash drives me crazy. I forget if you removed your air bags, but for me, if im not using it, I want to remove all those lines.

Was it really time that is preventing you from doing it? If that is the case, I am poor enough that rewiring the interior will fill the gaps while waiting for money for the build. What are your thoughts sir? Your thread was inspiring, like I said on your first page of your thread. It took me a few months to follow behind, but I did get me where I am now

Thank you for your contribution to these forums.

 

[turbosax2]

I didn't weigh my abs parts but 23lbs. seems like a high estimate. Disregarding weight, I decided to keep it for a few reasons. If you do race in the rain (which very well may happen) it will help, like DG said. I'm also in favor of keeping my tires round. Even if you know what you're doing and know the exact point to which you can brake before locking up, sh*t happens. ABS is your backup for when sh*t happens. I'd rather take the weight penalty and have the abs there to save my butt when I screw up. Plus, changing to an oem non-abs prop valve isn't the greatest way to eliminate the abs (search the forums for what Jtoby says on this). Yes, deleting the abs cleans up the engine bay but I thought this was a race car! Function over form DG's site was about the only thing I found defending ABS. But I take what DG says VERY seriously, and most of the people on this site didn't seem to have any particularly good reason that they would be better off without abs.

I did consider rewiring the interior. I decided not to because of time. If I want to rewire it in the future nothing I have done already will be affected by it. A quote from my thread:

I decided not to mess with the dash wiring just because I have enough on my plate as it is. So all my hvac connectors and some others are just electrical taped up for now. Maybe I'll feel like rewiring the rest of the car in the future, maybe not. It's probably not worth the effort, honestly. The main reason for rewiring the engine bay was to pretty it up, but under the dash I'm not as concerned about how it looks On a plus note, I weighed the bag of wires I've removed from the car so far - 7lbs.! But from what I've heard from others the dash harness can be a little more difficult because, like you said, messing with a wire can mess with other systems too. In my case I mostly just removed the wire completely. There were maybe a few cases where I had to consult the FSM just to make sure it wouldn't cause any issues.

My airbags are still in place, by the way.

 

[Atuca]

Still looking for help with my questions posted above, but in the mean time I been working on the engine harness.

I got most the gooey mess tap off and am working on removing unused sensors. I havn't quiet got it figured out how I am going to route my wires, but based off Eric's, I am sure it will be pretty similar. But I figure at least first off I just remove all the wire I won't need and see what is left.

Besides that, nothing else new to post on, here are a few pics of the mess I've created on the first floor of my condo.

 

[Atuca]

I am planning an update after this post, but before I move forward, I have labeled all my connectors, but have no idea what this black box is for. IIRC it is for detecting deformation of the fender for the SRS system, but can someone confirm or otherwise tell me what this thing is?

Please and Thank you

 

[Evan K.]

Your windows will be down when your at the track. You'll also want as much visibility as possible so no tint.

 

[turbosax2]

I am planning an update after this post, but before I move forward, I have labeled all my connectors, but have no idea what this black box is for. IIRC it is for detecting deformation of the fender for the SRS system, but can someone confirm or otherwise tell me what this thing is?

Please and Thank you

As far as I know it's just a grounding block, nothing special. I got rid of it and used a regular lug for my ground wires instead.

 

[Atuca]

Hmm wonder where I read about the abs deformation sensor or what ever it is called. If it is just a grounding box, I'll have to verify by following the wires back to their sensors I guess and make sure that is what they are called. However if it is just a ground, there are several points that are grounded by a bolt, why are these one grounded at a box?

Any more info would be appreciated.

In other news.. 2 more days and Fedex and UPS should be arriving at my door...

 

[turbosax2]

The only reason I can think of that they made it a box is to protect it from the environment more since it's mounted in the wheel well.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Atuca]

Well there you go.

Thanks Eric.