2.4 Liter G4CS build thread

[snowborder714]

If you're positive they're from that head, then you should be fine. They're labeled so that you can put them back in the correct order.

 

[mnim15]

The 2.4L balance shafts don't fit the 2.0L front cover.
You'll need adjustable cam gears, the cams themselves are designed for the 2.0L .
The 2.4L timing belt is 1 tooth longer than the 2.0L which causes the offset.

You'll also want to consider getting new cams that were designed for the 100mm crank stroke of a 2.4L:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/183700-fp2-vs-fp3-back-back.html

Also checkout:

My g4cs 2.4 build - DSM Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum: DSMtalk.com

 

[blazebolt]

blazebolt, didn't you give me some mumbo jumbo about if the caps were taken out of order i had to get it remachined?

the best i got now is he kept them and the rockers in two bags marked intake and exhaust side, along with bolts ect.

you are saying that is enough? if so i can head to the machine shop now right?

I said that if you were missing caps (as was the case for the spare head I have), you would have to get caps from another head and get it machined to match. Since you have the original caps, no machining is necessary.

Yes you can take the head to the machine shop, do you know what head work you're going to have done? Bring your valves too if you're going to get a valve job so they can cut them, or you can go the cheaper route and lap the valves and get the head pressure tested.

 

[Savage Talon]

The picture of the bolt with the white paint is a bs inspection hole. Take that bolt out and use the hole for your knock sensor. It will screw right in no problems and no need to weld a bung onto the block. I used the 2.0 dipstick and tube with no problems. You need to port the hell out of the oil filter housing and run a restrictor to the turbo. Between having no oil squirters and no balance shafts the oil pressure is high, crazy high.

 

[Atuca]

one person says I can reuse the coil pack someone else says I can't.

I am guessing I would have to rewire the coil pack to work with a 2g ECU, but does that mean I can use it or not? I think I remember reading PPl had to use the 2g coil pack and just relocated it underneather the intake manifold.

Is there a way to know for sure which coil pack I can use? And if I use it, do I need to do anything to my spark plug wires? I have a 95 ecu with dsmlink, and I already have to invert CAS and plug my spark plug wires in weird. I know I am getting ahead of myself, but what way would I be setting it up so that it works?


Blazebolt, I think I am going to have to wait for you this weekend to tell me if I can take my engine to the machine shop. I don't know what to give them or not. I called them and they made it sound easy, "just bring it all in" they said .

I want to know what bore I need and stuf like you had written down, so I get it done right.

I been using engine degreaser to get everything cleaned up from my parts car, no update besides that good day!

 

[Evan K.]

Phil you can use 91-94 coil packs with the 2g wiring harness. You can't use the 90 coil pack as the connector plug is different. I just took my 2g coils and mounted them to the 1g bracket as they were newer (why use the old ones I figured). Then just mount it to the IM like stock.

 

[Atuca]

Oh I can mount it the same way? I figured the 1g coil pack had some different mounting backet or something, but if I can fit the 2g in there i am good.

I got the intake manifold all cleaned up with degreaser. Now, non performance question, what is the word on powder coating intake manifolds? Can I do it or do I need to just stick to the high temp pain kraegon/autozone sells? I figure at the very least I could sand blast it and than spray paint to try and keep it looking shiny.

Still waiting on Blazebolt to get the "OK" on taking it to the shop, he might be able to swing by this weekend, so hopefully next week it will get the attention it deserves

The machine shop will resurface the head, but do I have to clean out the inside of the head myself? There is alot of oil burn stuff inside the head, should I be trying to clean that out, or is that something I just pay extra for the machine shop to acid bath it? Can I just use a power sander to get the exhaust manifold and intake manifold mating surfaces of the head flat and rid of gasket residue? Or do I need to have the machine shop do that too?

Thats it for updates today, not a whole lot planned for thursday heh. Just more cleaning.

 

[snowborder714]

You'll need the 1g bracket, but can use either 1g or 2g coils.

You can powdercoat the intake manifold if you'd like. Or you can just media blast it (I blasted mine with glass beads) and it will come out very shiny. You can check out my brother's thread and see what his looks like blasted. I can also post up a picture of mine to show you a blasted 1g.

If you plan on rebuilding the head, I'd have the machine shop tank it to clean it all out. I'm not sure if this is recommended if you still have the internals.

You can use a sander but you have to make sure it is perfectly flat. So you'd need to find a piece of material that you know is dead flat to use to compare. Or just give it to the machine shop and have them redo the flanges.

 

[Atuca]

Since I decided on the 1g head, is there any point in me porting the 1g intake manifold runners at all? Or should I keep to the shape and design mitsubishi gave us?

I got the turbo intake manifold off a 90 dsm, which has the smaller throttle body. Do I have to port/open up the intake hole from the tb side of the manifold when I find a 91-94 tb?

 

[snowborder714]

I would leave the runners alone.

I'm not sure if they made different 1g intake manifolds. Easiest way to tell is put a 1g tb (or just a tb gasket) up to it and compare. I would definitely make sure the inlet matches the tb.

 

[Atuca]

Today, I got my 90 oil filter housing, and pics of my cleaned up parts. Blazebolt will be here tomorrow to go over my list again and help me in the junkyard for any last oem non wear items I am going to need.

After that is done, hopefully he gives me the "OK!" to take it to the machine shop. Second opinions ftw?

Hopefully this weekend brings me good luck in the junk yard!

Enjoy the pics!

 

[snowborder714]

What external oil cooler do you plan on getting?

You call those parts clean?!?! You need them media blasted/powdercoated

 

[interex]

I'm glad to see more people wanting to do 2.4L with DOHC. I hope to be getting back on my project soon. Every day I go to my dads where all my parts are and I see the thousands of dollars I've spent on everything it just makes me sad that I don't have the money at this moment to buy the rest of the things I need. Keep up the good work

 

[Atuca]

What external oil cooler do you plan on getting?

You call those parts clean?!?! You need them media blasted/powdercoated

I call them clean only because when I first get them they are always black gunk oil colored and after wards they have a color heh. I do have a 150 psi air tank and plan on getting a powder coater and sand blaster. My biggest problem with that is I currently dont have a way to bake the parts. So that idea is still up in the air.

Today I pulled my first engine! With the help of blazebolt, and the use of a fork lift, I got the 6 bolt bottom end out of the donor car. I got the timing belt cover, along with all the pulleys and gears, oil pump front case, tensioner, and all the bolts to go with it. I think I need only the valve cover to be considered done with the non wear items for the stock 6 bolt part list. It took us 5 hours to get the engine out, mostly due to the fact we left the tranny in the car (couldn't get the axels out) but both blzebolt and I know after that experience on our 2Gs, we will be def pulling the tranny up with the engine.

Blazebolt went over the g4cs engine with me and everything looks good to go. As soon as I am available to go to the machine shop, the engine goes in, and I go digging through vendors websites to find the best deals on parts to finish finding everything I need

Here are the pics, see you guys soon!

 

[interex]

My cousin uses an old electric house oven that he put in his garage to bake his power coating. He say's anything you can fit in it can be done.

 

[Atuca]

Alright here is where I need some help.

How do I know what bore/hone I want, and how do I know what gap to use on the piston rings, or how to clearence the crank bearings?

I saw a tool I've never used, caliper (sp), used to mesaure the inside wall of a block ect.

What I am really getting at is how do I know, or how to calculate what I need to know to tell the machine shop what I want done to the motor. I assume the machine shop will do the balancing of my rods and pistons right? They will get the heaviest piston with the lightest rod, correct? Or is a weight scale that can read that percise something I need to buy?

Thanks for the help guys

 

[interex]

If you are going with oversized pistons the machine shop will be able to do everything for you in regards to the boring... You just take them your new pistons/rings and the block and they will take care of it.

The machine shop where I took my 4g64 did my holes to match my .020 4g64 pistons (87mm)... for $18 per hole.

 

[Atuca]

Well my wiseco are .020 over but the research I been doing says I am supposed to check for wall clearance depending on my set up, and the piston rings are gapped a special way ect.

I don't know what I'm talking about much but I would sure like to. Do I need to know anything besides the size of the piston? They will know everything else? Do I need to buy a caliper to double check they do it right, or is that just something you would do for a shop that may not do only dsm blocks?

I am not sure how precise things like this have to be, and I don't want to build my engine twice too soon

 

[interex]

The pistons should have come with the proper gap instructions, the machine shop will be able to handle this. A block is a block, they don't exactly have specialized places who do specific engines really.

 

[Evan K.]

Phil remember all the parts you want for this engine are 6-bolt parts i.e. a 90-early 92 engine. water pump, front case etc.

For the boost pressures you are going to run the ARP head studs are fine. Leave the L 19 stuff to the 35+ psi guys.

You are going to use 4g63 adjustable cam gears so any like AEM, Fidanza, HK$ will work fine.

As far as gasket kits I used the OEM Mitsu gasket set. I had them leave out the head gasket as it won't work with the larger bore of the g4cs block. For a head gasket look at Cometic or Fel-Pro. If you need OEM parts I use Dave at Norco Mits down in the LA area. You can reach them at 951-735-7100. Make sure you ask for the club DSM discount. And remember they do free shipping on orders over $100.00.

For an oil cooler you might want to look at Setrab coolers Home - Setrab USA, Inc.. I am currently measuring to see what I will be able to fit in the fender well. For lines and fittings there are several vendors on the forums that are offering kits. STM has one STM - DSM COOLING | RADIATOR | FANS | HOSES | THERMOSTAT as well as MAP MAP Oil Cooler Kit for 1990 Air Cooled Oil Filter Housing (DSM) - Modern Automotive Performance

My internet's down at my house so I have to do all my browsing at work. If you need give me a call Phil.

 

[delta448]

Well my wiseco are .020 over but the research I been doing says I am supposed to check for wall clearance depending on my set up, and the piston rings are gapped a special way ect.

I don't know what I'm talking about much but I would sure like to. Do I need to know anything besides the size of the piston? They will know everything else? Do I need to buy a caliper to double check they do it right, or is that just something you would do for a shop that may not do only dsm blocks?

I am not sure how precise things like this have to be, and I don't want to build my engine twice too soon

The machine shop needs the pistons with the block in order to bore/hone to the right PTW clearance. There are variances in measuring instruments even of the same brand, so let them handle measuring the exact size of the pistons to be used with their tools. Then they can transfer that precise measurement with that same measuring instrument and ensure that they set the cylinder hone for the perfect bore size to get the right PTW for each piston.

You could buy the calipers, bore gauge, etc. and double check that their work meets the tolerances that you specify if you don't trust them completely and think you need to, but most of the time you'll find that a good machinist will have more precise ways of measuring than the instruments that you can afford to buy will allow you to make. Good measuring tools like a high end caliper and an expensive bore gauge that reads to 1/1000 of an inch are just going to give you the ability to demand more precise work from the machinist. Keep him honest, so to speak.

If you know what you want the machine shop to do and can express that to them clearly, I wouldn't worry too much about them performing it correctly as long as you know they have a reasonable level of experience with some kind of high performance piston engine.

 

[OddNotion]

FYI before you have someone weld anything to the block, check to see if you will have that hole available between the freeze plugs for cylinder 1 and 2 on the back of the block.

I'm not really up on the G4CS details, but I currently have my knock sensor in that hole in my 4G64. There was one available between cylinders 3 and 4, but the one I used was easier to chase with a tap.

Just make sure nothing else is supposed to go between cylinders 1 & 2.

 

[ALP584]

My 6 bolt 4g64 that came out of a 1991 Mitsubishi Expo 5-Speed had the knock sensor location on the back of the block already there. I am not certain that the G4CS variant has or has not?

 

[Atuca]

I don't have a photo to varify, but I am at work currently and based off my memory, it has a threaded hole to put one, the problem is that it isn't between cylinders 1 and 2, it is located lower on the block. *edit* actually check page 1 pictures, it has one of each side. It looks like it has one there, perhaps that is the hole I use? Or is that for something else?

I want to say I read Defiant somewhere on some random thread, posted that a knock sensor listens for the revirberation of pre detonation throughout the block, and that anywhere on the block would suffice. I could be wrong on both the name and or the context of which I remember reading that, so that info is no better than hearsay.

But perhaps someone who has beter knowledge of the sensor would be helpful here?

As far as the block is concerned, it is waiting for payday I still can't find good info on runing a kiggly girdle or not, but what I can find is that it CAN'T hurt anything, and it CAN help, so 150 dollar insurance, why not... I guess... Already spending thousands, why not a 150 dollar peace of mind I guess.

Thats all I got for us today. Stay tuned in

 

[juanpac0]

I know this is your engine build thread, and it looks cool and all, but I have to ask:

Why did you buy an evo brake setup, and attempt to build a stroker engine before you even hit the track or bought suspension? If you don't have much experience road racing/autocrossing you're not going to be able to take full advantage of a completely stock DSM, let alone one with a BBK, and a 2.4 swap.

Logically the path should be invest in seat time ---> get good enough to push your car ---> figure out what you don't like about how it performs ---> address issues individually. You might have found that a 2.0 with a stock ported 2g exhman/o2 housing and ported small/evo3 16g would be fine for road racing as you're generally revving high enough to spool it nearly instantaneously on a track, and even on the street. How often are you below 3500 RPM on a road course? Maybe you feel your car is inadequate because you still have the bone stock (ie: probably blown) suspension on it. I bet if you got a nice set of coils or some koni yellows + gc's you wouldn't feel that the motor is as necessary as you do now.

Throwing money at your car right now may seem like a good idea, but until you have a clear idea of what you want from the car I find it hard to believe that you'll be happy with it. Driver mod > any car mod.

That aside, I look forward to seeing this thread progress and hope it ends up being a great resource.