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1st tune with FP3065, FP2x, & AEM EMS

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NewTurboTuner

15+ Year Contributor
535
21
Jul 21, 2006
Rslv, Arkansas
Well the car hit a couple of snags while tuning on Friday.
1st off... We ran off the Tial 44mm WG spring, and only saw 10psi. (I was under the impression it would be more like 13-14psi?) Then later we hit a oil pressure problem, with the pressure being WAY too high. like 100psi at idle! OMG WTF.

Sooo......
Friday my car hit the rollers for tuning with a bunch of new stuff. Mainly the FP3065, FP2x cams, and AEM EMS w/ MAP. We started out tuning with Waste Gate pressure that we thought would be .9 Bar. But strangely we could only hit a rock steady 10psi. (Maybe it was a smaller spring than we thought? I still had my catalytic converter on the exhaust, and the general consensus was that it was creating enough back pressure to blow the WG early.) We decided to go ahead and work with the 10psi to keep things safe; after all It was the 1st tune the car was seeing since all the upgrades. After a little playing around, the last run at 10psi net: 268AWHP. Whaaaa? WTF 268awhp @ 10psi :thumb: nice!

We were all real happy, feeling that 268 was a damn good number at 10psi. So we were ready to turn up the boost! We set it for aprox 15psi, and waited for the car to cool down. After things cooled we started her up and were just about ready to make another go when somebody started yelling SHUT IT OFF, SHUT IF OFF!!! (awh jeeezze :coy: thats never good to hear :( ) ......underneath the car there was oil everywhere! Luckily it wasn't the engine, but it seemed that the oil filter had backed off just enough to let oil spray everywhere. We got that fixed, and noticed the oil pressure was through the roof! Like 100psi at idle! It almost seems like the oil filter housing is clogged or something? We didnt dare keep tuning with all that pressure. So it got towed back to the shop. Its going to get pulled off and looked at this week. We know the housing has over 200miles on it. Its the original housing. I'm not sure what it could be. It sure ain't a bad oil pump thats for sure!

~Does anyone have any idea's about the super high oil pressure? Where I could start to trouble shoot, Or what could cause such a thing?


Overall the outcome was kind of a bummer, but I'm happy with 268awhp @ 10psi. It shows nice potential for whats to come. After things are straitened out, we'll stop somewhere between 350-400awhp with the stock block set-up. The Catalytic converter will be taken off too (I originally planned for the car to pass emmision, but the FP2x make that impossible). OHh the FP2x are Real lumpy; Just plain NASTY! :D Idle will have to be 1000RPM+, but OOoohhh ME LIKIE! :D
 
with the 44mm gate on my buddies 3065 we hit 16 psi off the gate spring. And i have seen 100psi of oil pressure cold on alot of built blocks with balance shafts removed.
 
Yeah, if you remove the balance shafts, you gotta port the oil filter housing a good bit to get "normal" oil pressures.
 
BS has been gone for awhile now.
There were no high oil pressure problems on the last set-up, before we added the new goodies.
Oil pressure was OK driving to the Dyno with the new set-up, and also OK on the 1st few dyno pulls. Then all of the sudden Oil is spewing from the filter, and oil pressure is sky high???
 
Did you remove the Oil Squirters? If the Oil Squirters have been blocked because your using forged pistons, Then Oil Pressure will shoot through the Roof. You will need to port the Oil Relief Outlet to solve the problem.

This is also a common problem for people that have elimated the balance shafts. Because you are now oiling one less item, the stock oil pressure relief outlet is overrun.
Simple fix but do it gradually.

This is the Thread that will show you how to solve the problem. Easy fix and you can keep doing it until your oil pressure is correct.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224606
 
Sounds like you have a 0.7 Bar Spring in the Wastegate.

Also my car Idles almost stock at 750 and passed emissions just fine with FP2X's...sounds like your timing is off.
 
Defently some nice numbers for only 10 psi. .9 bar should be ~13 psi, maybe you got a different spring. I just got my Tial 44 with the .9 bar as well so I'll see what mine hits connected directly in a couple weeks. Just wanted to add a local dsmer passed the emissions here with the FP2X's & I believe he was running the SAFC. I wished I had known this was possible before I settled on the FP1X's.

(Edit: Looks like he beat me too it :D )
 
PASSED EMISSIONS with FP2x!!!!! OMG

NICE!!:cool:

Well dang it! Plan B just started and the cat came off :rolleyes:
Oh well I found some body to 'help';) me pass :sneaky:

The oil pressure prob is still a mystery.
Things still havent been looked into yet, but it'll be pulled apart real soon.
 
READ THE ABOVE POST! OMG Dont ask for help then not read what people are posting.

He said in the above post that the oil pressure was not that high when he drove it there and on the first few pulls. After the filter backed off is when the problem started.
 
Uuuhmmmm:confused:
I did read the post. Thanks

The prob is solved!:D
The relief plunger in the housing was stuck closed. It was wore down and shiny on one side. We didnt fool with the bad one. Just put a new piece in, and the car was good. Thanks for helping me brainstorm guys!

Afterwards I got to take Her out for my 1st street test. :D
WHOOAAAH HOOO!! A Meazly 268awhp never felt soo good!OMG The power never stops pulling. I dont know how its possible, but this set-up at 10psi, pulls as hard as my EVOIII set-up with 19psi! The 1st 2-3 romps I did, seemed to be laggy (I never drove a car with such a big turbo). But after 10mins, I was already getting used to it.

Idle is set at 1100rpm, and even then.... there's NO mistaking that this car is cam'd.
It just has that kinda cam'd growl; you know. I usually like my Idle to be at about 1000, but since CanadianTSI has his at 750... I'll give that a try and see how it goes. I bet the FP2x sounds sick at 750!

I should be back to the dyno soon. The oil pressure fix was easy enough.
Heck...Just for the hell of it, I might even take it to the track with this little 268whp tune.

Any body want to take a guess on what they think it'll run with 268whp? :confused: ROFL
 
Damn, Im glad you worked out that oil pressure problem, make sure you post new #'s.
 
Like Canadian said, I would check your timming. FP2's and FP2x's should idle very well, almost stock. Sounds like something is off in your timming. Rotate the motor to TDC and take a pic of the harmonic balencer so we car see the timming mark, now check your cam gears, better yet, snap another pic. Post the pics so we can 'grade' your timming.
 
i cant even tell if i have cams unless a dsm without them parks next to me. something is wrong!

nice numbers tho man! let us know how 25-30psi feels when you get everything fixed :thumb:
 
Im with some of the others, verify your timing marks are still 100% lined up. When I first installed my 1X cams using the RRE method everything was lined up but I believe the auto tensioner didn't tension properly when I let it back out as when I went to do my timing belt about a month later I found the marks to be off a tooth. I also noticed a pretty lumpy idle & lower then expected vacuum. Because of the profile of the X series of cams (believe because of the increased ramp rate) they tend to produce more vacuum when compared to other similar sized "std" cams. With the timing marks lined the vacuum was back up to where I expected it would be & the idle was much smoother. Most probably woun't know it had cams unless it was idleing beside a car with stockers. Now I'm hopeing I think the same thing with the 3052 I'm installing in a couple weeks, that it feels like the same amount of power at half the boost of my evoIII :cool:
 
I never got to dyno the EVOIII set-up. BUT based off of my old cars, with power ranging from 222whp-433whp, I always suspected it was about 270whp @ 19psi. The 268whp @ 10psi was done on a Mustang dyno. The top end power of the new set-up is definitely better than the E3 set-up. I have to admit that I was skeptical of the 268whp @ 10psi numbers at first. It was done on a Mustang Dyno, and I've never heard of power#'s like that at 10psiOMG (how about you guys?). On the street it feels good! Unlike the E3 setup, I don't feel any drop in power at 8000RPM; it just keeps pulling! It surely feels like it makes 268whp.

With AEM EMS you must verify timing, because you have to sync the EMS with the motor's timing. You have to do it manually with a timing gun. I don't think timing is off, but I'll take another look.

The car has been at the shop, and I've only been able to stop by if I have time after work. It moves back to my house this weekend, and I plan to play! Ill take pictures of the set-up and snap a couple shots of the Cam marks. Ill log some runs, and take video, and maybe even test the 268whp #'s, if PR is open for TestNTune this weekend :)

Maybe I'm just overly enthusiastic about the Idle. I've owned 13 vehicles and only ever had stock cams even when I was into Muscle Motors. I've only been into DSMs for about a year, and non of my friends have them. Its something I took on by my own interest. I'm sure bigger cams seem normal after you get use to them, but its a new thing to my ears.

I Can't wait to start showing her off! I've been talking about the car since Fall, but very few people have seen it. I tired to make it as clean as possible and I think she looks good :)

........Check back this weekend to take a look, and tell me what you think! :thumb:
 
Well we are talking about something different than the setting the timing via a timing gun. We are talking about the mechanical aspect of how the cams line up when installed vs. the mark on the harmonic balancer. When you have the timing mark on the harmonic balancer lined up with the TDC mark on the timing cover, the marks on the cam gears need to be horizontally perfectly facing each other and both the key ways in the cams/cam gears need to be facing up.
Here is a pic I took of a friends car after I installed cams to verify the cam timing:
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This was after he had drove a few hundred miles.

BTW: Turn up the boost once everything is broke in and you will start to love your DSM. They are great cars and these 4G63 are powerful motors and quite robust. Just be prepared to have thick skin because these are older cars and we are making well over 200 hp per liter, things break.
 
Good trick to make sure timing belt is dead on-
Get a small philips screwdriver that can fit between the gears and stick it between them until it touches the head. The tip should point right at the gap between the head and the block when the gear notches are lined up and the crank sprocket/pulley is at TDC. This eliminated a lot of guesswork for me where I was never quite sure it was right.
 
I took off the timing belt cover and took a quick glance at the gears. I tried to do a quickie check... trying what Caithness is talking about, but I dont quite understand it. I'll have to research it when I have more time.... I thought by now I'd have time to play, but other things keep comming up. I'm gonna be sure to make time for the car this weekend. SUMMER WEATHER IS STARTING TO SHOW; I CANT MISS THAT!

Here's a quick little Vid: Idle @ 1000
I have a sleeper set-up, so its quiet, but sounds real nice.

EDIT: If you have a Laptop you probably wont hear the muffler tone.

http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a387/S73V3B/?action=view&current=MOV00475_.flv
 
i didnt read alot of this, but i had a buddy with the same setup with a pretty crappy tune in my honest opinion put down 310 on pump gas in his gst...he was running somewhere in the 18lb range...just an fyi
 
Also 1 thing that makes me wonder about the timing is that...When I 1st start it... it cranks for a few seconds before it starts up.... I don't know if thats the AEM_EMS or not. Normally when I hear of a car that dosent start right away... it usually think timing or tuning is off??? As soon as I get a chance I will let you know what I've found. Mean while here are a few pics too.
Thanks:thumb:

When I 1st bought the car
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And now....
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The Rad overflow is temp hung on the Batt. I have a small battery that I'll install, and then Ill install the Rad overflow reservoir somewhere near the bottom of the chassis so that it won't show-up.

EDIT:
Sounds works for me and other computers that I'm not logged in with.
I did see a delay of sound the 1s time I ran it.... maybe give it a couple seconds. Thanks
 
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