1st log and it looks very wrong

[DSM-Franek]

Any suggestions? I posted here since i'm a "new member"

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What is with my o2 voltage?


Thanks
-Frank

 

[BISHILVR]

Yes, its correct for your timing to drop when adding fuel. Especially on the 2g because it has higher compression from the factory and they were very greedy on the timing tables.

 

[BISHILVR]

I'm not a big 2G guy, but I'd suggest resetting your base timing once you get your fuel dialed in.

Base timing is not adjustable on a 2g unless it has a 6 bolt cam/crank angle sensor or a complete 6 bolt swap.

 

[DSM-Franek]

Base timing is not adjustable on a 2g unless it has a 6 bolt cam/crank angle sensor or a complete 6 bolt swap.

I do have a 6 bolt

Heres another log.. o2v is more normal now but is that timing safe?

You can see where i floored it.. It wasn't from the start but you can see where boost hit in the timing on this log.

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Thanks!
-Frank

 

[DSM-Franek]

This is also creeping to 20psi

-Frank

 

[JayRolla]

You timing is still pulling like crazy. I would richen up all settings untill you get a smooth timing curve. If you run a little rich it will get rid of knock and then you can work your way back a little.

What are the SAFC settins at now??

 

[DSM-Franek]

You timing is still pulling like crazy. I would richen up all settings untill you get a smooth timing curve. If you run a little rich it will get rid of knock and then you can work your way back a little.

What are the SAFC settins at now??

High Settings:

1k -10%
2k -15%
3k -17%
4k -17%
4.5k -16%
5k -17%
6k -17%
7k -15%

Thanks!
-Frank

 

[kenamond]

I do have a 6 bolt

Heres another log.. o2v is more normal now but is that timing safe?

You can see where i floored it.. It wasn't from the start but you can see where boost hit in the timing on this log.

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Thanks!
-Frank

Next time you do a pull, floor it from 2500rpm. Is this a 3rd gear pull? Also, if you can stop logging the rear O2 sensor, you will get more samples in your log (it will sample faster, because there's one less sensor value to sample). The log should record a full throttle pull that starts *before* your turbo hits full boost. That way, we can see first boost in the log.

The timing curve should be high before boost comes on, then it should take a nose-dive when boost hits and rise smoothly from that minimum all the way to redline. Any dips you see after first boost are signs of knock. Notice that your timing drops to 11* at around 3200rpm and your airflow jumps. I'm not sure if that's where you floored it or when boost hit. That's why I'm asking for a new log floored from 2500rpm. If you had it floored before 3200, then the timing should increase smoothly from 11* for the rest of the pull. It's definitely not smooth right now. Also notice that your O2v are lean everywhere except at 4400-4700 rpm.

Your O2 values look better, but timing is still pulled, so you're still knocking. Try getting your O2v up to 0.94v or so and see if the timing curve improves.

 

[JayRolla]

Your very first logs look the best. Im guessing you are getting rich knock. Go back to -30 and do another run from 2500-7500rpm. Your timing was way higher which indicates less knock.

 

[DSM-Franek]

Next time you do a pull, floor it from 2500rpm. Is this a 3rd gear pull? Also, if you can stop logging the rear O2 sensor, you will get more samples in your log (it will sample faster, because there's one less sensor value to sample). The log should record a full throttle pull that starts *before* your turbo hits full boost. That way, we can see first boost in the log.

The timing curve should be high before boost comes on, then it should take a nose-dive when boost hits and rise smoothly from that minimum all the way to redline. Any dips you see after first boost are signs of knock. Notice that your timing drops to 11* at around 3200rpm and your airflow jumps. I'm not sure if that's where you floored it or when boost hit. That's why I'm asking for a new log floored from 2500rpm. If you had it floored before 3200, then the timing should increase smoothly from 11* for the rest of the pull. It's definitely not smooth right now. Also notice that your O2v are lean everywhere except at 4400-4700 rpm.

Your O2 values look better, but timing is still pulled, so you're still knocking. Try getting your O2v up to 0.94v or so and see if the timing curve improves.

I will try and get those o2v up to .94 ad see what that does to the timing.

Your very first logs look the best. Im guessing you are getting rich knock. Go back to -30 and do another run from 2500-7500rpm. Your timing was way higher which indicates less knock.

But on those logs I was rediculously lean I think.. The car felt alot slower in the first logs also and not nearly as smooth as it feels now.

Im beginning to think that I don't have 660 injectors When I bought the car the guy said it had 660s but by how much fuel i'm needing to add i'm thinking they are not.

Noob question: If I took an injector out, is there writing on them that would tell me the "cc" ? Or could I take a picture and have someone on here give me some insight to what they really are?

Thanks so much for the help so far!!!
-Frank

 

[kenamond]

I will try and get those o2v up to .94 ad see what that does to the timing.




But on those logs I was rediculously lean I think.. The car felt alot slower in the first logs also and not nearly as smooth as it feels now.

Im beginning to think that I don't have 660 injectors When I bought the car the guy said it had 660s but by how much fuel i'm needing to add i'm thinking they are not.

Noob question: If I took an injector out, is there writing on them that would tell me the "cc" ? Or could I take a picture and have someone on here give me some insight to what they really are?

Thanks so much for the help so far!!!
-Frank

Maybe they are smaller injectors. Or maybe your AFPR isn't properly adjusted. If it's too low, you'll flow less fuel.

Maybe it's a coincidence that your 3.5k SAFC setting is the richest and that's the only place you get 0.94v on the O2, or maybe you're close in that range. If your logger lets you query the values after a pull, you might be able to do 2 or 3 adjusting the SAFC between them to see the effect. Doing them a day or two apart makes it harder for you to remember how much of one change caused what effect on O2v.

 

[DSM-Franek]

Alright. I made 2 more logs.
I made 1 then made some adjustments and made the 2nd one. How do they look?

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Timing is still jumpy.. Does it look like i'm still lean? This log creeped from 17psi-20psi

Thanks!
-Frank

 

[JayRolla]

Yes you look lean. Timing should dip and slowly raise to redline. Your getting down to 9* which is real low. Im really confused that you first logs felt worse. There was less timing pull which would give you more power. The last log pulls hard at redline and you should almost feel that timing pull its so large.

I would pull an injector because I know my 550's said RC-550w or somehting like that. Maybe call up the old owner and ask him where he got them and your having a tuning problem. Now did you buy the car with all the mods?? Where was the safc settings at when you bought it??

Your whole goal is to get that timng back up. Your first logs looked way better, had a lot more timing. Which indicates a lot less knock. Are you positive the car felt worse on he first logs, because it really doesnt show that in the logs.

Second log looks better so your getting there. Timing dips at 4592rpm to almost 7000rpm. Add a little more fuel in this area and see if it gets smoother. What are safc settings now? I would not go back to your old settins I wrote this before reading your logs better.

 

[DSM-Franek]

Yes you look lean. Timing should dip and slowly raise to redline. Your getting down to 9* which is real low. Im really confused that you first logs felt worse. There was less timing pull which would give you more power. The last log pulls hard at redline and you should almost feel that timing pull its so large.

I would pull an injector because I know my 550's said RC-550w or somehting like that. Maybe call up the old owner and ask him where he got them and your having a tuning problem. Now did you buy the car with all the mods?? Where was the safc settings at when you bought it??

Your whole goal is to get that timng back up. Your first logs looked way better, had a lot more timing. Which indicates a lot less knock. Are you positive the car felt worse on he first logs, because it really doesnt show that in the logs.

Second log looks better so your getting there. Timing dips at 4592rpm to almost 7000rpm. Add a little more fuel in this area and see if it gets smoother. What are safc settings now? I would not go back to your old settins I wrote this before reading your logs better.

In my very first 2 logs i was -30ish so i had to be CRAZY lean then if im still lean now.. at -16 - -18ish

The car definitely felt like it was holding back in the 1st 2 logs on page one of this thread.

thanks!
-Frank

 

[JayRolla]

Yea im just surprised you where seeing more timing. Add some more fuel and see if the timing gets smoother like I said in last post. It looks like its getting close but you should be seeing about 16* by redline. It also looks like you have 550's not 660's from where you settings are now. Also from what ive seen on friends cars the settings should kind of be like a curve. The higher rpm the more fuel you need to keep up with the motor.

 

[kenamond]

Yea im just surprised you where seeing more timing. Add some more fuel and see if the timing gets smoother like I said in last post. It looks like its getting close but you should be seeing about 16* by redline. It also looks like you have 550's not 660's from where you settings are now. Also from what ive seen on friends cars the settings should kind of be like a curve. The higher rpm the more fuel you need to keep up with the motor.

The SAFC hides airflow from the ECU. In his first couple of logs, he was hiding A LOT more air from the ECU, so the ECU was way advanced on the timing map. That's probably why his timing was higher.

I think he's okay but maybe still a bit lean between first boost (looks like 3200) and 4500rpm. Then it takes a timing hit (O2v drop a bit there below 0.94 down to 0.9) at 4500 (both logs). In the 2nd log, timing climbs back up to 6300 and gets dinged again.

I still see wacky O2v below 3200. Richen that area up.

Looks like you have to richen it up progressively more between 4500 and redline - meaning that you richen a bit at 5k, a bit more at 6k, and even more at 7k. If you can spend some time doing pulls, pulling over, looking at the O2v, tweaking the SAFC, and repeating, you should be able to get your AFR out of the lean and start seeing proper timing curves. Try to get EVERY O2v on your log to be 0.95 or so (wherever you're at full throttle in the log) and see what your timing curve looks like then.

Also, stop logging airflow and log TPS instead so we can see where you tromp it.

The bottom line is that you should try to get it rich everywhere as soon as you can and then lean it out until it knocks. You're running your motor hard and lean right now, and it's knocking like mad, and neither of those are good for anything. Get the O2v up so that the timing behaves, then lean it out as much as you can without seeing knock.

Keep us posted!

 

[kenamond]

I saw your other thread trying to find out what those injectors are. I Googled for about 15 minutes and couldn't come up with anything.

Anyway, another thing you should check is your AFPR setting.

Maybe a guru could chime in with a back-of-the-envelope calculation for injector size based on a -15% SAFC setting.

 

[JayRolla]

550's

 

[DSM-Franek]

The SAFC hides airflow from the ECU. In his first couple of logs, he was hiding A LOT more air from the ECU, so the ECU was way advanced on the timing map. That's probably why his timing was higher.

I think he's okay but maybe still a bit lean between first boost (looks like 3200) and 4500rpm. Then it takes a timing hit (O2v drop a bit there below 0.94 down to 0.9) at 4500 (both logs). In the 2nd log, timing climbs back up to 6300 and gets dinged again.

I still see wacky O2v below 3200. Richen that area up.

Looks like you have to richen it up progressively more between 4500 and redline - meaning that you richen a bit at 5k, a bit more at 6k, and even more at 7k. If you can spend some time doing pulls, pulling over, looking at the O2v, tweaking the SAFC, and repeating, you should be able to get your AFR out of the lean and start seeing proper timing curves. Try to get EVERY O2v on your log to be 0.95 or so (wherever you're at full throttle in the log) and see what your timing curve looks like then.

Also, stop logging airflow and log TPS instead so we can see where you tromp it.

The bottom line is that you should try to get it rich everywhere as soon as you can and then lean it out until it knocks. You're running your motor hard and lean right now, and it's knocking like mad, and neither of those are good for anything. Get the O2v up so that the timing behaves, then lean it out as much as you can without seeing knock.

Keep us posted!

Will do. I made some adjustments and then added 2% across the board . I'll see what that does to the timing and see if its less jumpy and also see what it does to the o2v.

Will post a log tomorrow sometime!

I saw your other thread trying to find out what those injectors are. I Googled for about 15 minutes and couldn't come up with anything.

Anyway, another thing you should check is your AFPR setting.

Maybe a guru could chime in with a back-of-the-envelope calculation for injector size based on a -15% SAFC setting.

Thanks for the attempt.

I can't seem to find much either

550's

That's what im beginning to think also based on that picure of the evo 550s in my other thread and the settings that i'm needing.


Thanks for the help so far guys it is truely appretiated.
-Frank

 

[DSM-Franek]

Now I don't think that those are the same injectors as in the other pic in my other thread (http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=151124415#post151124415) because the plug looks a little different I'm lost

-Frank

 

[kenamond]

Now I don't think that those are the same injectors as in the other pic in my other thread (http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=151124415#post151124415) because the plug looks a little different I'm lost

-Frank

If your AFPR is properly set, it won't matter if they're 550s or 660s as long as they're delivering enough fuel for the maximum airflow your turbo is pumping; just get a good and safe tune with whatever you've got. If you upgrade to 660s, you'll already know how to tune to them, and it'll go faster.

After you do a pull with the 2% increase, pull over and look at the O2v from the log and also look at the timing. If you still see lean spots, but not everywhere, then add more fuel in the lean areas but not everywhere. If you can make mental notes (or write them down) of what you changed and what effect it had on your log, you can make better guesses as to how much fuel to add the next time around.

 

[DSM-Franek]

AFPR is set at 43.5 psi (stock 2g) wtih the line disconnected

-Frank

 

[kenamond]

AFPR is set at 43.5 psi (stock 2g) wtih the line disconnected

-Frank

Cool! And you've done a boost leak test recenlty and don't have leaks? If you have leaks, you'll be tuning to a leaking intake - and if you fix the leaks after you've got a good tune, your SAFC settings will all of the sudden be too lean.

 

[DSM-Franek]

No leaks

Thanks for your help I will be making another log later.
-Frank

 

[DSM-Franek]

Anyone have any ideas to why my o2v wouldn't cycle at idle like it's supposed to? It just sits at .02v and the fuel trims just sit there too..

The sensor reads fine in my logs and is only 2-3k miles old

-Frank

EDIT: going to make a new thread for this question

 

[BISHILVR]

Because it has'nt warmed up yet, or the heater circuit is out of it or your looking at the wrong o2 sensor.