1g talon will not start!Can anyone help????

[supermanvick]

I just dropped a new motor into my car and everythings hooked up. I tried cranking the motor and it cranks but does not start. The compression is perfect. So first i took the #1 plug out to check for a spark and yes we got a spark. So then i checked to see if the fuel pump was pumping into the rail and that was also working. As of right now im stuck and not sure what to do! The gas in the car was about a year old so we took it out and put new gas in it. The motor still wont start. My dad thinks that the old gas got into the oil and is stopping it from starting. I thought it could be the coil pack is not getting the right spark to start the motor! But if anyone has any ideas please inform me cause i'm so frustrated with this car, i've been trying to start it for a week now and cant figure it out!!!!

 

[redleader36]

I had very similar problems a couple weeks ago when i swapped a 90 motor into my friend's 92 talon. First of all, what year is your motor? If the motor is from a 90 and the car is a 91, then 2 pins will have to be moved around on the ecu harness. It is pins 6 and 14. check this vfaq for more info http://www.vfaq.com/mods/ecu-harness-1G.html

If the above is the case and you have a 90 motor in a 91 car, you may also have to swap in a 91 transistor if you havent already.

Also, take the cam angle sensor off (or use a second cam angle sensor if you have one) and keep it plugged into the harness. With the key on, spin the cam angle sensor rotor with your finger. Do you hear the injectors clicking? If the injectors aren't clicking you may have a bad ecu or cam angle sensor. If they are clicking look at the maf and the coolant temp sender. At any rate, just see if the injectors are actually opening

 

[steve]

I had very similar problems a couple weeks ago when i swapped a 90 motor into my friend's 92 talon. First of all, what year is your motor? If the motor is from a 90 and the car is a 91, then 2 pins will have to be moved around on the ecu harness. It is pins 6 and 14.

You should double check the wiring on your swap. Depending on how the engine harness connects to the body harness there may be no difference since the 91+ cars ahready have the wires running to the right pins on the ECU connectors for their 91+ ECUs.

The issue is when switching ECUs in the cars because the ECU pinouts are different.

Steve

 

[Newlogics]

I just dropped a new motor into my car and everythings hooked up. I tried cranking the motor and it cranks but does not start. The compression is perfect. So first i took the #1 plug out to check for a spark and yes we got a spark. So then i checked to see if the fuel pump was pumping into the rail and that was also working. As of right now im stuck and not sure what to do! The gas in the car was about a year old so we took it out and put new gas in it. The motor still wont start. My dad thinks that the old gas got into the oil and is stopping it from starting. I thought it could be the coil pack is not getting the right spark to start the motor! But if anyone has any ideas please inform me cause i'm so frustrated with this car, i've been trying to start it for a week now and cant figure it out!!!!

Take a spark plug out and and crank it. See if you can smell/see fuel vapor (to make sure injectors are firing).

Is there no sign of any kind of combustion at all, or does it cough and sputter but nor start?

Is cam angle sensor installed at least close to proper position?

Is MPI fuse installed?

Do you hear fuel pump relay go on and fuel pump prime?
(to check that, turn the ignition off, wait for the relay under your center console click (about 5 sec after the ignition is off), then turn ignition on again. You should hear a click, that indicates replay coming on, and a short whine from the pump that indicates priming.

Does your check engine light come on for several seconds when ignition is turned on ?

 

[steve]

Do you hear fuel pump relay go on and fuel pump prime?
(to check that, turn the ignition off, wait for the relay under your center console click (about 5 sec after the ignition is off), then turn ignition on again. You should hear a click, that indicates replay coming on, and a short whine from the pump that indicates priming.

This doesn't happen with any 1G DSM I've ever worked on unless for some reason the ECU sees a CAS pulse. The fuel pump doesn't usually run until you hit the starter.

Steve

 

[Newlogics]

This doesn't happen with any 1G DSM I've ever worked on unless for some reason the ECU sees a CAS pulse. The fuel pump doesn't usually run until you hit the starter.

Steve

hmm. never had a problem doing that. The trick was to let FP relay click off before turning ignition back on, and it primed every time.

 

[supermanvick]

the fuel pump is working perfect. I hear the whine everytime i turn the key. The motor will just crank and crank but no start and the tach moves above zero just a bit. So your positive about the pins needing to be switched on the ecu? The timing is already set on the belt area, but my dad did mess with cas. Will that have anything to do with it? If so how do i know where it needs to be? I know were getting a spark but not sure if the its good enough. Do i need a new transitor too?

 

[supermanvick]

Im using the stock ecu that was already in the car cause the motr didnt come with a ecu. and yes the motor im using looks like it did come out of a 90 cause it has the oil cooler lines coming out of it! the motor came small 16g and 550 injectors!

 

[Newlogics]

Im using the stock ecu that was already in the car cause the motr didnt come with a ecu. and yes the motor im using looks like it did come out of a 90 cause it has the oil cooler lines coming out of it! the motor came small 16g and 550 injectors!

No, you don't need to swap pins!
As long as wire harness is the same year as ECU, you don't need to rewire anything. Rewiring is only needed is you're using '90 ECU in a 91 car or vice versa.

However, ar all the electronic components (such as TB, coilpack, pwr. transistor from a 90 or 91?
You better use coil pack that is same year as your car (well, 91-94 at aleast), same goes for pwr. transistor.

Is cam angle sensor a rewired 90, or plug-in 91 ?

 

[supermanvick]

im using the stock harness that was already on the vehicle which is a 91 if thats what your asking! but the cas that was on the motor is a 90 im sure of! When i turn the key to the on position without cranking it all the indicator lights in the dash stay on like the check engine light and etc. I thought the check engine light was supposed to at least go off. I checked the ecu and the board and the caps in it look brand new with no leaks. I'm totally frustrated with the motor already. I'm thinking about taking it to a shop for them to start it up for me causse im stumped!!!!!

 

[Newlogics]

im using the stock harness that was already on the vehicle which is a 91 if thats what your asking! but the cas that was on the motor is a 90 im sure of! When i turn the key to the on position without cranking it all the indicator lights in the dash stay on like the check engine light and etc. I thought the check engine light was supposed to at least go off. I checked the ecu and the board and the caps in it look brand new with no leaks. I'm totally frustrated with the motor already. I'm thinking about taking it to a shop for them to start it up for me causse im stumped!!!!!

So your answer was in front of you all this time.

Scan the code, and chances are, that would be your problem.

Now tell me, how exactly did you conect '90 CAS to a '91 harness without cutting/splicing wires? 90 CAS has pigtail and a plug, while 91 CAS has a connector port right on it.

 

[supermanvick]

why does the connector connect right to the cas then if i have to rewire it. Its all just plug and play. Everything connected just fine. Not to be mean but im not sure what your trying to say.

 

[Newlogics]

why does the connector connect right to the cas then if i have to rewire it. Its all just plug and play. Everything connected just fine. Not to be mean but im not sure what your trying to say.

I'm trying to say that if CAS connected right up, then it can't be a '90 CAS, but you said the engine is a '90. So if you used a CAS that came with the engine, then engine must be a '91+ (or someone has put a '91+ CAS on it for kicks).

So clear this up once and for all, did you use CAS that came with engine, or did you put your old CAS on the new engine?
(if you posted a pic of your engne bay, it would clear some things up)

And did you have a chance to scan CEL code?

 

[supermanvick]

im using the cas that came with the motor and nope sorry dont have anything to scan it with! I just figured the motor was a 90 cause of the oil cooler lines still connected! i will try and post some pics in a bit here!!!

 

[Newlogics]

Here's supermanvick's engine bay

 

[Newlogics]

Well, I looked at pictures you sent me, and even though I couldn't see enything definitive, here are couple of spots to check:

Check injector resistor pack. The harness side of the connector should have red, and four black wires coming out of it, each with a color stripe: red, white, yellow and blue. The plug is the same as idle control motor plug, so make sure you didn't swap them by accident.

What kind of power transistor are you using (original from the car, or the one that came with the engine?)

Have you pulled plugs and cranked the car to see if fuel is being injected? (you can tell right away by smell, and foggy blows from the plug holes.)

And again, scan the code. There is a procedure described here on how to do it without a logger (with a paper clip). Find it and perform it.

 

[supermanvick]

im using the transitor that came with the motor! I will try and fine the procedure and try it thanks!!!