1g 6bolt 400-600 horse build

[1995gsxawd]

Ive been out of the dsm ring for awhile and im just now getting back into it. I went and bought one of the new dodge challengers and love it. BUT I still feel there is nothing like a DSM. I have a 1g DSM with a 6 bolt and i want to try and put down 500-600 but would settle for 400-500 depending on the prices I am wanting a street legal beast. It may be daily driven but i think it will mostly be a weekend getaway car. I have been out for awhile and i searched this site for about 3 hours and havent really found a build that has followed through with what the first post questioned. I am in no hurry to build it and it will take a few months to save up about 4 or 5 grand. I know some of the basics. I want to run on 93 pump gas so ill need like 1000cc injectors. Ill tune with DSM link. Im thinking Wiseco piston and eagle rods All ARP hardware. High flow fuel rail Aeromotive fuel Pressure regulator Walboro 255 id like a 272 cam i just dont know which make is for what i want. Im just unsure of a lot of things and want to get them straightened out before i go on a spending spree. What kind of compression do i want? Should i overbore? What do i need for head work? I just need some steps in the right direction before i make my first purchases. Any help at all is appreciated. i would like stay non stroked 2.0. Most parts i buy are going to try to be from deals on here and locally. Let me know what you guys think i tryed to post pretty descriptive

 

[cody92talon]

you seem to be heading in he right direction. the fuel rail is not needed the stock ones flow pretty much fuel and will be sufficient for your goal.if you want over 500 whp you might want to think about a dual 255 wally setup because 500 is pushing it on one pump. kelford makes really good cams but make sure to included kiggly behive springs when running them. also for the 500 range on pump gas your going to need a good size turbo some where along the 35r line or a holset which would be more budget friendly

 

[SupremeDsm]

Well I got the supertech dual valve springs for my kelfords but havent installed them yet. Should I take them back and get the kiggly behives?

 

[frankenstein406]

No those will be fine. Also if theres nothing wrong with your bottom end leave it stock except put arp bolts in the piston rods. Hx 40 with tube mani and external gates should get you close.

 

[e85_4g63]

First thing you need to do is pick an actual goal. I mean you did say 500 to 600hp, then you say you'll be happy with 400 or 500hp. They're is a HUGE difference (in price and parts selection) between 400hp and 600hp. I'm not being rude here, but if you don't have an absolute goal in mind, you'll just keep spending money and never get to really enjoy the car. Stock 6 bolts will do 400hp reliably day in a day out with nothing more then a refresh. 600hp on the other hand, is forged parts territory.

Well I got the supertech dual valve springs for my kelfords but havent installed them yet. Should I take them back and get the kiggly behives?

No, you'll be fine with the Supertech duals. Just make sure they are installed at the right height.

 

[SupremeDsm]

Does anyone know what the height is fpr those?

 

[TurBoneRed]

Go with a hx40 set up and skip on the pump gas, e85 ftw

Stock block
Tripple layer head gasket
ARP head studs ftw
Hx40
Ets fmic
Jackal speed Density
walbro 255 rewired
1600cc injectors
E85
-6an fuel lines
Shep trans
Crower 272s


This should suit you nicley if you have a healthy motor, I would skip dsmlink because Jackal costs only $20.00 and does everything link does plus its speed density, with the mony you save you can use it on other things. I would shoot for 475awhp until you can forge your internals.

 

[TSI from Hell]

e85_4g63 said it best. You don't just do the transition between 400hp to 600hp... 200hp; that's technically more than the horsepower of a stock DSM... Trying to achieve that over 400hp is not going to be as easy as saying it.

I do wish you good luck; and I also suggest an hx40 (or bigger) ...or else you'll blow that $5,000.00 quite quickly.

 

[1995gsxawd]

you seem to be heading in he right direction. the fuel rail is not needed the stock ones flow pretty much fuel and will be sufficient for your goal.if you want over 500 whp you might want to think about a dual 255 wally setup because 500 is pushing it on one pump. kelford makes really good cams but make sure to included kiggly behive springs when running them. also for the 500 range on pump gas your going to need a good size turbo some where along the 35r line or a holset which would be more budget friendly

Yeah i was thinking of running a holset ive read good things about them. OK thanks abunch for your help. Ill make a note of the dual 255 wally. What all do i need for an E85 setup? I hear good things about thoseas well

No those will be fine. Also if theres nothing wrong with your bottom end leave it stock except put arp bolts in the piston rods. Hx 40 with tube mani and external gates should get you close.

Yeah i read up on the bottom end Im going to leave them stock besides arps. Yeah im looking deeply into an HX40 Setup i just got to figure out which is the best way to run.

First thing you need to do is pick an actual goal. I mean you did say 500 to 600hp, then you say you'll be happy with 400 or 500hp. They're is a HUGE difference (in price and parts selection) between 400hp and 600hp. I'm not being rude here, but if you don't have an absolute goal in mind, you'll just keep spending money and never get to really enjoy the car. Stock 6 bolts will do 400hp reliably day in a day out with nothing more then a refresh. 600hp on the other hand, is forged parts territory.

I would really like to get 500-600. I plan to forge no matter what.

Go with a hx40 set up and skip on the pump gas, e85 ftw

Im honestly thinking about E85. But the nearest gas station that sells E85 is about 30 miles away. Ill just Tank some and use it later i guess Ill have to read more deeply into the hx40 setup and make sure it will carry me into the 500-600 range and read about the BEP housings and what not and as to which is the best setup

e85_4g63 said it best. You don't just do the transition between 400hp to 600hp... 200hp; that's technically more than the horsepower of a stock DSM... Trying to achieve that over 400hp is not going to be as easy as saying it.

I do wish you good luck; and I also suggest an hx40 (or bigger) ...or else you'll blow that $5,000.00 quite quickly.

Yeah im Just trying tog et prices on 400 then prices on 500- 600. Well 400 doesnt seem to be expensive so im looking at 500-600 for sure. E85 seems to be the best way With a holset

 

[richard33]

Yeah i was thinking of running a holset ive read good things about them. OK thanks abunch for your help. Ill make a note of the dual 255 wally. What all do i need for an E85 setup? I hear good things about thoseas well



Yeah i read up on the bottom end Im going to leave them stock besides arps. Yeah im looking deeply into an HX40 Setup i just got to figure out which is the best way to run.



I would really like to get 500-600. I plan to forge no matter what.



Im honestly thinking about E85. But the nearest gas station that sells E85 is about 30 miles away. Ill just Tank some and use it later i guess Ill have to read more deeply into the hx40 setup and make sure it will carry me into the 500-600 range and read about the BEP housings and what not and as to which is the best setup



Yeah im Just trying tog et prices on 400 then prices on 500- 600. Well 400 doesnt seem to be expensive so im looking at 500-600 for sure. E85 seems to be the best way With a holset

people make 600+ and go high 130s low 140s with an hx40.

Your goal and budget are pretty far off though. You can make the power with that much money but you will need to think about wheels and tires, suspension, etc. Especially being FWD trust making anything over 300whp is not much fun on the street without some tires. I could do rolling burnouts from 40mph.

If I were you, I would build the motor, and then see where your budget is at. Adjust your goals accordingly. A 16g on e85 is a FUN street car. An hx40 making 600whp is not that much fun honestly for FWD on the street.

My hx35 build for reference which netted me low 500s whp on e85

6 bolt 9:1 eagle/wiesco motor.
stock balanced and polished crank
arp head studs
Stock 7 bolt head with supertech dual valve springs and BC272 cams
8 blade hx35
3in ebay intercooler with custom IC piping.
mishimoto alum. Rad with 2 slim fans.
tial Q BOV and tial 38mm WG
Evo3 intake mani
SLS exhaust mani
Single rewired walbro255
stock fuel lines
bosch 1600 injectors.
stock fuel rail
aeromotive AFPR
Tien s-tech lowering springs
hoosier 26x9.5x16 QTPs

The motor alone cost me a few thousand by the time it was machined and put together.

 

[1995gsxawd]

people make 600+ and go high 130s low 140s with an hx40.

Your goal and budget are pretty far off though. You can make the power with that much money but you will need to think about wheels and tires, suspension, etc. Especially being FWD trust making anything over 300whp is not much fun on the street without some tires. I could do rolling burnouts from 40mph.

If I were you, I would build the motor, and then see where your budget is at. Adjust your goals accordingly. A 16g on e85 is a FUN street car. An hx40 making 600whp is not that much fun honestly for FWD on the street.

My hx35 build for reference which netted me low 500s whp on e85

6 bolt 9:1 eagle/wiesco motor.
stock balanced and polished crank
arp head studs
Stock 7 bolt head with supertech dual valve springs and BC272 cams
8 blade hx35
3in ebay intercooler with custom IC piping.
mishimoto alum. Rad with 2 slim fans.
tial Q BOV and tial 38mm WG
Evo3 intake mani
SLS exhaust mani
Single rewired walbro255
stock fuel lines
bosch 1600 injectors.
stock fuel rail
aeromotive AFPR
Tien s-tech lowering springs
hoosier 26x9.5x16 QTPs

The motor alone cost me a few thousand by the time it was machined and put together.

o i will be running AWD for sure. I agree tho ill build the motor and see whats left at the end of the build. Im going to be looking for good deals locally and on here to catch a deal and snatch it up which will help me save money as well. So its officially ill be running E85 with a holset setup with forged internals on stock botom end w/ polished crank Im just going to need the small things worked out. Which is better to run the 6 bolt head or the 7 bolt head? Small little things like that i am unsure about

 

[TSI from Hell]

Both heads are good really... It's debatable but I'd use the 6bolt head, even tho most says that the 7bolt head has better airflow.

 

[livedsm4g63]

Forged internals with stock bottom end? That's something I didn't know was possible. Jk

 

[1995gsxawd]

Forged internals with stock bottom end? That's something I didn't know was possible. Jk

Ha ha I meant Forged pistons and rods with stock bottom end

 

[fallenauthority]

If its forged rods and pistons then that's not a stock bottom end

 

[1995gsxawd]

If its forged rods and pistons then that's not a stock bottom end

Ha ha Alright I just woke up give me a break . I got forged rods and pistons on stock crank

 

[frankenstein406]

Why bother with forged pistons and rods? If your using e85 pretty much no detonation, unless your piston ringlands are cracked your wasting money. Just put arp bolts in the rods. I would worry about valve float before the bottom end. Also use a $30 fel pro headgasket not a steel one. You want a weak point in your engine if it goes, and $30 for a headgasket is cheap to replace.

 

[richard33]

Why bother with forged pistons and rods? If your using e85 pretty much no detonation, unless your piston ringlands are cracked your wasting money. Just put arp bolts in the rods. I would worry about valve float before the bottom end. Also use a $30 fel pro headgasket not a steel one. You want a weak point in your engine if it goes, and $30 for a headgasket is cheap to replace.

why risk it? Ya some people make 500-600 on a stock 6 bolt. What about all the other people that throw rods with less power?

Build the motor and use a good head gasket.

 

[frankenstein406]

why risk it? Ya some people make 500-600 on a stock 6 bolt. What about all the other people that throw rods with less power?

Build the motor and use a good head gasket.

Why not? Plenty of people make that power and plenty of people half ass a build and wonder why there car blew up. Fel pro is a good head gasket. Idc waste money if you want, send some to me to.

 

[goodbuds]

super hx40 7blade about 600-900 bucks will easily flow 600whp with right mods.

 

[1995gsxawd]

If i build it im going to build it to where i shouldnt have to worry about it at all.

 

[e85_4g63]

If i build it im going to build it to where i shouldnt have to worry about it at all.

"Now that's thinkin' with yer dipstick, Jimmy!" . If you setup a definite goal for us, we can give you good, sound advice on what to buy, and more importantly, what to avoid buying! Buying things twice sucks!

 

[1995gsxawd]

"Now that's thinkin' with yer dipstick, Jimmy!" . If you setup a definite goal for us, we can give you good, sound advice on what to buy, and more importantly, what to avoid buying! Buying things twice sucks!

ha ha ha!! Id like to run 500 whp 400 is so so and 600 seems a little high for my budget. Id like to run 500 solid

 

[e85_4g63]

ha ha ha!! Id like to run 500 whp 400 is so so and 600 seems a little high for my budget. Id like to run 500 solid

500AWHP it is then. I see your interested in a Holset and e85. The e85 I can help with, the Holset on the other hand I can not. I am not against Holsets, I just personally a different brand of turbo. A rebuilt 7 blade (or maybe even 8 blade) HX35 should get you to your goal (on the stock 12cm housing too if I understand the Holset threads correctly).

At 500whp you need to seriously consider forged internals for reliability reasons. Not saying the stock bottom end can't handle it, but just for peace of mind, and more importantly for "room to grow" in the future. Horsepower is addicting, 500 won't be enough after a while...

You can use a very basic build to meet your goals. I would consider the following:

Manley H beam rods and 8.3 to 8.5:1 pistons. These two items can be picked up from DSM Grave Yard (a supporting vender on here) for less then $700 to your door. I'm not going to recommend higher compression, solely based on the fact that your not within rocks throwing distance of an e85 station. Pump gas will work just fine with the lower compression ratio's listed above.

Stock main bolts (or ARP studs) will work just fine. A balance shaft elimination kit, and some fresh bearings (will the correct machine work) will have your bottom end setup for 600whp (if you feel the need to go beyond 500).

ARP studs and a Mitsu MLS head gasket will be just fine for your goal.

A 272 cam variation (HKS 272's, FP2's, or genuine Comp 101200's) with some good quality springs and retainers will be all that's need "engine build" wise. Other bolt on's will depend on exactly what turbo you choose. Also having the cylinder head "de-burred" would be helpful at this point, with some gasket matching and a good kevlar timing belt will be more then enough.

Look into porting the oil filter (housing) relief valve when doing the BSE.
Head and block you'll want machined to a "40 R.A." or better finish for the head gasket, if your machine shop guy looks at you dumb when you say that, walk away... quickly!

Sorry for the novel. I know some of these parts may not be "needed" (like the 272's), but the build I'm suggesting is a mix of what's "needed" for 500whp and what's "common place" in 600hp cars. Remember, it sucks buying parts twice. Don't get a Eagle rods for 500whp and have one create a window in your block because you want 600whp after driving around with 500....

Anything else you want to know just ask..

 

[1995gsxawd]

500AWHP it is then. I see your interested in a Holset and e85. The e85 I can help with, the Holset on the other hand I can not. I am not against Holsets, I just personally a different brand of turbo. A rebuilt 7 blade (or maybe even 8 blade) HX35 should get you to your goal (on the stock 12cm housing too if I understand the Holset threads correctly).

At 500whp you need to seriously consider forged internals for reliability reasons. Not saying the stock bottom end can't handle it, but just for peace of mind, and more importantly for "room to grow" in the future. Horsepower is addicting, 500 won't be enough after a while...

You can use a very basic build to meet your goals. I would consider the following:

Manley H beam rods and 8.3 to 8.5:1 pistons. These two items can be picked up from DSM Grave Yard (a supporting vender on here) for less then $700 to your door. I'm not going to recommend higher compression, solely based on the fact that your not within rocks throwing distance of an e85 station. Pump gas will work just fine with the lower compression ratio's listed above.

Stock main bolts (or ARP studs) will work just fine. A balance shaft elimination kit, and some fresh bearings (will the correct machine work) will have your bottom end setup for 600whp (if you feel the need to go beyond 500).

ARP studs and a Mitsu MLS head gasket will be just fine for your goal.

A 272 cam variation (HKS 272's, FP2's, or genuine Comp 101200's) with some good quality springs and retainers will be all that's need "engine build" wise. Other bolt on's will depend on exactly what turbo you choose. Also having the cylinder head "de-burred" would be helpful at this point, with some gasket matching and a good kevlar timing belt will be more then enough.

Look into porting the oil filter (housing) relief valve when doing the BSE.
Head and block you'll want machined to a "40 R.A." or better finish for the head gasket, if your machine shop guy looks at you dumb when you say that, walk away... quickly!

Sorry for the novel. I know some of these parts may not be "needed" (like the 272's), but the build I'm suggesting is a mix of what's "needed" for 500whp and what's "common place" in 600hp cars. Remember, it sucks buying parts twice. Don't get a Eagle rods for 500whp and have one create a window in your block because you want 600whp after driving around with 500....

Anything else you want to know just ask..

What kind of turbo would you prefer? IM not worried about not being close to and E85 station. It just gives me an excuse to go some place on the weekends and i wont drive the car that much. So if E85 is a better choice then im game for it. So forged pistons and rods but what about the crank? Will the stock crank be fine? IM for sure running ARP hardware wherever i can. On the BSE i did one on my stock 7 bolt but i wasnt for sure about the porting and im still not 100% for sure on the porting. Can there be to much? Or to little? I Appreciate everything you said man. I cant say thank you enough