1996 Eclipse GST makeover HELP

[ktgurl87]

Alright guys and gals. My husband is overseas (yay military). He has asked me to 'fix' his car while he is gone. I am all about this, as I do not much care for sharing my truck Anyway... his "baby" is a 1996 Eclipse GST. This car has been nothing but a headache for me ever since he brought it home. The car never wants to start for me. I hate how the 4g63 motors have the starter mounted on the back of the motor. All it is, is the hotwire is loose. All you have to do is reach underneath there, push and wiggle the little clip, and she'll start right up. What I am having to replace is the turbo, darn near the whole a/c system, and the exhaust. What I've got ordered so far is a replacement 16g turbo (the exact same as what is on there now, except new), new oil feed lines for the turbo, new a/c parts (compressor, condenser, drier, and expansion valve), and a new air filter (does anyone know how hard it is to find another cone air filter that has a 5" inlet?). Now this new turbo has an internal wastegate, but my husband wants a blow off valve also. From what I have been told, the wastegate and blow off valve provide the same purpose. Is this correct? And even so... what would be a good name to look for in finding a blow off valve? I found some cheapo ones on eBay, but a friend told me that is not the way to go, and to try and find one by Greddy or HKS. Do I really need to go that route? I love my husband and all, but I'm really not trying to spend loads of money on this car . And does anyone know what size the exhaust manifold bolts are? We seem to have lost one somewhere along the line and now it has an exhaust leak and a burnt up gasket. If not I can snag another one off and go find one at Ace hardware or something. And any other opinions on maybe what else I can/should do to this thing while it's down would be mighty helpful. I want this car to run like it's supposed to, not like a hunk of red crap. And if any needs pictures of anything, let me know. I have a camera at the ready! Thank You in advance for your opinions and/or answers.

 

[19Eclipse90]

The car never wants to start for me. I hate how the 4g63 motors have the starter mounted on the back of the motor. All it is, is the hotwire is loose. All you have to do is reach underneath there, push and wiggle the little clip, and she'll start right up.

Disconnect the negative battery cable, put the car on jack stands, get under there and tighten the connection to the starter. That will eliminate this problem.

From what I have been told, the wastegate and blow off valve provide the same purpose. Is this correct? And even so... what would be a good name to look for in finding a blow off valve? I found some cheapo ones on eBay, but a friend told me that is not the way to go, and to try and find one by Greddy or HKS. Do I really need to go that route?

Waste gates and BOVs are not the same thing. The waste gate is a simple device that regardless of the design has a single purpose, to divert energy (exhaust gas) away from the turbine of the turbo. It accomplishes this by basically opening up another passage for the air to flow through. A balance must be made where the energy gained by the turbine must equal the energy transferred to the intake air. Taken from: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/109324-finally-going-explain-boost-creep.html

The BOV works mechanically to recirculate excess, metered air back into the intake. In a DSM, airflow is measured before entering the turbocharger. There it is compressed, sent through the intercooler, and up to the intake manifold. The BOV uses a pressure differential between the intake manifold (after the throttle body) and the midstream of the intake pipe after the intercooler (before the throttle body) to diffuse the extra, but already metered air back into the intake. As the throttle plate in the throttle body opens, more air and, consequently, more fuel will be injected. Once this stream is suddenly cut off, i.e. the throttle plate closes, there is high pressure on the BOV side and low pressure on the intake manifold side and excess air must escape -- a la the BOV.

For all practical purposes, an OEM BOV from a 1990-94 DSM will work just fine and cost much less than a GReddy or HKS unit. Those from later year DSMs were not of the best quality. There are really much better places to spend money than on a BOV.

And does anyone know what size the exhaust manifold bolts are? We seem to have lost one somewhere along the line and now it has an exhaust leak and a burnt up gasket. If not I can snag another one off and go find one at Ace hardware or something. And any other opinions on maybe what else I can/should do to this thing while it's down would be mighty helpful.

I assume you mean the exhaust studs. First, make sure the "lost one" has not broken off with part of the stud stuck in the head. Now, there are two different size studs used on these cars and you will have trouble sourcing these at any hardware shop. The two (2) outermost studs are M10 x 1.25 mm pitch x 28 mm in length; Mitsubishi's part number for these two is MD146938. The other seven (7) inner studs are M8 x 1.25 mm pitch x 28 mm in length and are Mitsubishi part number MD005317. The nuts and washers can be found at any automotive store but if you want Mitsubishi parts, the numbers are as follows:

M10 x 1.25 Exhaust Manifold Flange Nut (qty. 2): MR224500
M10 Exhaust Manifold Plain Washer (qty. 2): MD050076
M8 x 1.25 Exhaust Manifold Flange Nut (qty. 7): MR212302
M8 Exhaust Manifold Plain Washer (qty. 5, yes FIVE): MD041192

Other than what you have asked for, if you do not know when the most recent timing belt service was performed, you may want to look into it. This is all assuming, of course, that the engine runs already. A very thorough, and maybe overdone, list of items to check and/or replace can be found in the first post here: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/maintenance-repairs/364640-maintenance-list.html

At the very least, replace all timing components (belt, hydraulic tensioner, tensioner pulley, idler pulley, and if applicable, balance shaft belt and tensioner; use only OEM/Mitsubishi parts for those parts), water pump, front main seal, camshaft seals, valve cover gaskets including the four (4) spark plug well gaskets and half moon (these items should come in a single kit), oil, coolant, spark plugs and wires.

Hope that helps point you in the right direction and doesn't scare you away.

 

[rarest_90_DsM]

Good info on the last post. Welcome to the dsm world, I'm glad someone informative got to you before anyone could lead you down the wrong path . Do you plan on working on the car yourself?

 

[ktgurl87]

I plan on doing what I can with the car. I will take it to a shop for the a/c stuff obviously because I don't have the time or the patience to even try and mess with it. There is not enough ibuprofen in the world to get me to do it. For the nuts, I was referring to the exhaust manifold stud nuts. There aren't any washers on there currently (not that I can see anyway). And as far as tightening up the connection on the starter, there is no way to "tighten" the piece that is loose. When I said hotwire, I meant the little itty bitty wire that has a little clip that slides over the spade on the starter itself. But it doesn't snap on, or click, or anything. It just slides on. Which is definately crappy. And the car runs just peachy. Just replaced spark plugs and wires, but I may do it again before it's all said and done. I don't want to mess with the timing components if I don't have to. Thank you Eclipse90 for explaining the differences between the BOV and wastegate. I am the first one to admit that I don't know a whole lot about turbos. I did read on how they work on "howstuffworks.com" . But now I can get a better idea of what else I need to get.

OK... to make things more fun to look at, I have taken pictures!

First: Motor

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Second: Ugly-Getting-Replaced-Too Front Bumper

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Third: Just a fun side view picture

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pictures make everything better! Also... in the first picture you can see one radiator fan is not there... this is what happens when turbo heat meets plastic fan assemblies >.<

 

[engineerthis87]

as far as the BOV goes, i have a greddy type S but i do know that the HKS holds up to higher boost levels than the greddy. Also, if you go to K&N, they'll hook you up with the air filter you need. By the way you are awsome for doing this for your husband. Just a little extra piece of advice, ,, , throw a new intake pipe and upper intercooler pipe on there and he is butter in your hands! If your interested in this i have some old greddy hard side mount pipes laying around that i will give to you just for you paying shipping.

 

[ktgurl87]

i actually found the exact same air filter he's got on there (except brand new, clean, and bright red) FOR A DOLLAR! yay go me. so i bought two . but as far as the intercooler goes, there's a cute little baby one that's mounted in front of the passenger side wheel. he wants this one put up there (pay no attention to the turbo in this picture, we were trying to sell them) :

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so as far as piping, i know i'll need more of it because this one goes in front. i am assuming it goes in the very very front, like, in front of the condenser, front. am i correct in assuming this? and i have found a bunch of different plumbing kits for intercoolers, but do i need ALL of those pieces to make the switch from a side-mount intercooler to a front-mount? i know i'll need a couple anyway.

and i just wanna say thanks to you guys. you've been a huge help so far

by the way... if anyone is interested in that turbo, i still have it . it is smaller than the 16g, so like, STOCK stock turbo. my husband did tell me it had a teeny bit of play in the uh, fins? the little wheel with the blades . but i'm sure you can slap a rebuild kit on that sucker and be good as new!

 

[19Eclipse90]

...in the first picture you can see one radiator fan is not there... this is what happens when turbo heat meets plastic fan assemblies >.<

Yes, but more so that is what happens when the appropriate heat shields are not in place. There is a lower and upper heat shield for the turbocharger/O2 housing and exhaust manifold, respectively. It is wise to keep both fans, especially if the plan is to install a front mount intercooler (FMIC). Additionally, that extra heat freely radiating from the turbocharger/O2 housing can dramatically shorten the life of your alternator, so it is best to have some sort of heat shield there.

so as far as piping, i know i'll need more of it because this one goes in front. i am assuming it goes in the very very front, like, in front of the condenser, front. am i correct in assuming this? and i have found a bunch of different plumbing kits for intercoolers, but do i need ALL of those pieces to make the switch from a side-mount intercooler to a front-mount? i know i'll need a couple anyway.

Yes, that intercooler is a FMIC unit and goes in front of the condensor and radiator in the front fascia "grill" space. Finding the plumbing for a FMIC can be a daunting task; it is half the reason I haven't installed one on my own car. One approach would be to seek out a custom installer, someone who can fabricate pipes to make it work. Otherwise, you take your chances with universal piping kits or spend your time looking for an appropriate, fitted piping kit without an intercooler core. If you are considering a kit, post a link up and I'm sure we can let you know if it is what you are after or not.

Clean engine bay, by the way

 

[ktgurl87]

it is funny that you mention shortening the lifespan of the alternator.... that alternator has been replaced twice >.< still have the top heat shield, he took it off when he took the turbo off a little while back. it is sitting in the garage with it's bolts waiting ever-so-patiently to be put back on. i was thinking of investing in a turbo jacket. i was not aware there was also a bottom heat shield. a friend of ours said that an exhaust shop could bend some piping for it.. is that true? because we do have a couple exhaust shops around and since i am talking about exhaust... is it going to be hard to find another muffler that sounds kind of throaty and not like a pissed off bumble bee? from what i've seen, most of the exhaust kits i've found come with a bigger muffler that looks similar to what he's got on there now. my husband also mentioned something about a new exhaust manifold. can't i just take that one off and clean it up and maybe paint it with some exhaust paint? i work at a freaking auto parts store and i look at the mess all the time. (20% discount on all that crap too, wee!) what would be a reason for a new exhaust manifold besides looks? because that one does look a wee bit nasty. but it's not cracked or broken anywhere. i was also thinking about taking the valve cover off and cleaning it up and maybe painting the whole thing or possibly just the letters. and i also found this: Import Evolution. that looks cool, and the wire cover that's on there now is the black plastic and a couple of the screw-bolt holes are broken, so i would want to replace it too. is it worth the money? it looks nice . anyway... i'm going to bed now. i'm off ALLLLLLL weekend and i'm hoping i might see a part or two on my door step soon. i'll be enjoying before and after pictures

 

[LunarEclips]

First off!! Way to go Wifey!! Its awesome to see the effort you're putting in on this project! +1 for that!!

On to the tasks:

-One thing i noticed is that red hose coming from the valve cover. Its not connected according to my eyes. Its supposed to go into the 2 nipple coming from the intake rubber pipe.

- - While on the topic of the intake, this is a cool hard pipe that is inexpensive and helps a little while giving a little cool shine to the engine bay and they make the couplers in red. =) 95 96 97-99 MITSUBISHI ECLIPSE TURBO GST/GSX Air Intake: eBay Motors (item 330459956390 end time Sep-10-10 07:23:17 PDT)

-Here's a bumper for the front that fits the car and helps fit your front mounted intercooler project. Factory fitted bumper. BUMPER COVER mitsubishi ECLIPSE 97-99 front 98 1997 CAR: eBay Motors (item 250685450015 end time Sep-18-10 22:16:38 PDT)

- Here's the new Greddy Type RZ blowoff valve. They work great and sound cool too. =) EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - GReddy Type-RZ Blowoff Valve: Universal

- And lastly, the piping for your husband's car prefabed already and you can order it with the greddy flange that you need in order to mount your new Greddy Blow-off Valve to. Comes in black or stainless steel. EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - Extreme Turbo Systems Complete Intercooler Piping Kit: 2G DSM

 

[engineerthis87]

If youre looking to do a fmic on the car, i would suggest getting a fmic kit from somewhere and maybe selling that core you have. The reason i say this is, you can get a vrsf fmic kit or punishment for close to the same price and WAY less hassle than piecing together your whole kit, hell i got my vrsf kit for 280 shipped to my door and it works great! Also, with getting a fmic kit they will set you up with the right flange for the BOV you want. Big time saver there. And yes you can clean up the exhaust manifold thats on the car and heat coat paint it, but carefully inspect it for any cracks. Before i got my FP manifold, My stock 2g mani had 3cracks in it.

 

[ktgurl87]

about the intake.... is where it is not a good spot for it? because a couple folks have said putting a pipe and everything on it. don't wanna really go the route of like a cold-air intake or routing the intake down to the bottom because of where we live. lots of rain and pot holes = possible sucking up of water :\ and as far as the bumper... i found one that is the "duraflex" material. he doesn't want fiberglass or plastic. he wants the urethane but it is so bloody expensive and this bumper that i found is kind of cool. this one: Mitsubishi Eclipse Extreme Dimensions Duraflex Fiberglass Aggressive Front Bumper - 101870 by Extreme Dimensions Body Kits Conversions
that one could work for the fmic too right?
and for the BOV. this is gonna sound like a goofy question... but can someone tell me where exactly it is? i was looking at the motor and it looks like the piece that is mounted in the intake like right above the little radiator hose lookin deal. is that the right piece? or perhaps someone can circle it for me? i'm sorry to sound like such a... gr 'newb' but this will be my first time actually disassembling this car. i've messed with the 420a motor a little bit but i've done more work on my Dodge than anything else . i CAN do it, i just need to know where all these things are exactly. and Lunar, i will definately check out the red hose. now that i look at the picture, it doesn't look hooked up to me either. so once it stops raining (thank you earl) i can go back outside and start playing with this thing. thanks guys!

 

[19Eclipse90]

For the BOV:
http://members.shaw.ca/dsm.1000q/Engineprimer/2G/bov.htm

For everything else under the hood:
Virtual Tour of the DSM Engine Bay - Quadrant map


As to your previous post:

it is funny that you mention shortening the lifespan of the alternator.... that alternator has been replaced twice >.< still have the top heat shield, he took it off when he took the turbo off a little while back. it is sitting in the garage with it's bolts waiting ever-so-patiently to be put back on. i was thinking of investing in a turbo jacket. i was not aware there was also a bottom heat shield.

Many people leave off the lower heat shield without a lot of problems. But creating any sort of shield between the exhaust and the alternator will definitely not hurt. The top shield should be installed, regardless.

a friend of ours said that an exhaust shop could bend some piping for it.. is that true? because we do have a couple exhaust shops around and since i am talking about exhaust... is it going to be hard to find another muffler that sounds kind of throaty and not like a pissed off bumble bee? from what i've seen, most of the exhaust kits i've found come with a bigger muffler that looks similar to what he's got on there now.

Any exhaust shop should be able to bend pipes for your intercooler setup. The manner in which they bend the pipes should be something to consider. Many shops will press bend the piping; performance enthusiasts generally prefer mandrel bends which flows better. The downside to mandrel bends is that it costs more. There won't be a huge difference between the two on a near lightly modified vehicle, but there is a difference.

Exhausts are a matter of personal preference. Search Youtube for DSM exhaust clips. I guarantee you will find a ton of results.

my husband also mentioned something about a new exhaust manifold. can't i just take that one off and clean it up and maybe paint it with some exhaust paint? i work at a freaking auto parts store and i look at the mess all the time. (20% discount on all that crap too, wee!) what would be a reason for a new exhaust manifold besides looks? because that one does look a wee bit nasty. but it's not cracked or broken anywhere. i was also thinking about taking the valve cover off and cleaning it up and maybe painting the whole thing or possibly just the letters.

You surely can take if off and clean it up. Exhaust paint, as mentioned previously, will work. Another thing to consider is with the upper heat shield in place, you hardly see the manifold at all. Spend the time cleaning the heat shield and making it look good and you won't have to worry about what the exhaust manifold looks like.

and i also found this: Import Evolution. that looks cool, and the wire cover that's on there now is the black plastic and a couple of the screw-bolt holes are broken, so i would want to replace it too. is it worth the money? it looks nice .

Like the fascia in your last post, not my cup of tea. The spark plug cover looks nice and would go well with a chromed heat shield. It just isn't something I would do. The fascia (bumper), again, is a personal preference thing.

 

[ktgurl87]

Thank you! That helps alot . And yeah so the BOV was what and where I thought it was on the car. Spiffy! I'm ready to tear this sucker apart now. I'm just waiting on parts to start getting here so I can put the new piece on when I take the old part off. I figure I'll get way less confused that way. Thanks guys! Any any opinions about that bumper I posted?

 

[engineerthis87]

I say no to fiberglass! but as far as the looks, you wont find many people on this website who like many bumpers other than stock.

 

[nothingfiction]

My thoughts...

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PLUS

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EQUALS

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HOWEVER

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PLUS

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EQUALS

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[ktgurl87]

el-oh-el used to have a talon btw. '96. was given to us because the dude couldn't ever figure out why he had to jump his car to get it started all the time... battery was wrong, too big, and the strut bar was grounding it out. anywho... was looking at this here intercooler i have, and it is a JDM Sport, missing two bolts to mount it with, and some of the fins on the outside are smooshed a little bit. should i worry about it? or just get a whole new kit?

i've got another question and this may be answered already somewhere, in which case, just silently post a link and i'll bite my lip . what is the deal with silicone radiator hoses? are they better? are they more for racing or would they function pretty well on a daily driver as well? thank you in advance for any responses

 

[engineerthis87]

i love 2gb talon fronts btw. As far as your intercooler you should be fine with the stock side mount until starting to up the boost a bit. do you happen to know what boost he has been running?

 

[ktgurl87]

no idea... it's all a pretty much stock setup. he just wants the fmic. he basically told me what all he wants done, and then as i go along, i'm finding more things that i want to do to it also. not gonna add any real 'mods' to this car as he has a heavy foot first 3 months of owning this puppy and he had 3 speeding tickets. so it doesn't need to go any faster .

after inspecting the car underneath the hood, it appears the manifold has a crack right on top so i guess i need to get another one. a friend said i need to get a cast iron one because all of the other metals just don't hold up as well with heat.

my husband said i should get the turbo put on at a shop because i don't know what this turbo is "set at" what does he mean? since this turbo is just a stock upgrade, i shouldn't have to worry about settings, should i? any input on that would be fantastic. and i'm looking at intercooler kits, and an intake pipe. i might start ripping out the interior soon, because the carpet is kind of nasty. i've decided against getting the seats recovered in another color, because then i'd have to redo the whole interior, and that is just a big headache. but is there anything i can resecure the cover on the airbag with? it's peeling up on the corner.

 

[ktgurl87]

weeee! got the first of many packages for this car in the mail today! -squeal-

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it's so beautiful!

any opinions on silicone radiator hoses?

edit to add: do these motors really like synthetic oil? we've been running Castrol GTX high mileage and it seems to do okay. any comments on oil choice would be awesome too. thanks guys!