1991 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD

[We're on Boost]

Yeah, I think I am close

Right. I'm going to watch in that other thread to see how it goes and I'm probably not going to say much if anything about the tuning now that you are to this stage with it. Because I'd like to learn this stuff too. Both times that I needed to tune a new setup, I had the tuning done by a pro. Didn't do it myself, especially this last one with the expensive engine in 2016. So I'm mostly just going to ride along now!

 

[justacanuck]

Right. I'm going to watch in that other thread to see how it goes and I'm probably not going to say much if anything about the tuning now that you are to this stage with it. Because I'd like to learn this stuff too. Both times that I needed to tune a new setup, I had the tuning done by a pro. Didn't do it myself, especially this last one with the expensive engine in 2016. So I'm mostly just going to ride along now!

This is really our practice car... once we have a decent handle on how to do this all properly, we plan to apply all the lessons learned to the process of re-building another DSM with a stroker, that we had purchased as a bundle.

The other car is a white 1993 TSI FWD (*EDITED) that we picked up at the same time in a package deal, with a bunch of spare parts. The GSX is in much nicer shape but since it is FWD, and it may end up closer to 500HP, it is really going to be a "summer only" type of car.

The one we are working on now is really just the winter "beater"

 

[victorgalant]

This is really our practice car... once we have a decent handle on how to do this all properly, we plan to apply all the lessons learned to the process of re-building another DSM with a stroker, that we had purchased as a bundle.

The other car is a white 1993 GSX FWD that we picked up at the same time in a package deal, with a bunch of spare parts. The GSX is in much nicer shape but since it is FWD, and it may end up closer to 500HP, it is really going to be a "summer only" type of car.

The one we are working on now is really just the winter "beater"

Genuinely curious, how a GSX is FWD? They removed the awd trans and diff? And you are gonna keep it FWD?

 

[justacanuck]

Genuinely curious, how a GSX is FWD? They removed the awd trans and diff? And you are gonna keep it FWD?

IDK... maybe I am mixed up, I thought GSX simply meant it was FWD model.

Maybe its not a GSX at all (it does have a leather interior and it is definitely FWD)

 

[We're on Boost]

IDK... maybe I am mixed up, I thought GSX simply meant it was FWD model.

Maybe its not a GSX at all (it does have a leather interior and it is definitely FWD)

I think it's confusing because the Talon and the Eclipse did this differently.
With the Talon, the TSi could be either AWD or FWD and it was still a TSi.
With the Eclipse, the AWD turbo car was the GSX. The FWD turbo car was a GS-T.

Here's a chart shown for it in the Wikipedia article "Mitsubishi Eclipse":

 

[pauleyman]

IDK... maybe I am mixed up, I thought GSX simply meant it was FWD model.

Maybe its not a GSX at all (it does have a leather interior and it is definitely FWD)

Unless you can trace a vin most car have been so messed with options aren't any indication. I met a guy once that thought for years he had an awd because his bumper said gsx. He never bothered to look underneath. Bumper had been swapped.

 

[justacanuck]

Unless you can trace a vin most car have been so messed with options aren't any indication. I met a guy once that thought for years he had an awd because his bumper said gsx. He never bothered to look underneath. Bumper had been swapped.

Haha, yeah, this one is "rebuilt" status too, so it really is anyone's guess what it looked like when new. When we actually start building it again in spring, we will do some more research.

Please forgive my ignorance, it doesn't really have any external badging, we only bought it a few months ago just a few days before it started snowing a bunch, and it really isn't even my car, it is actually my son's car.

I am fairly certain that it is a Talon, not a Eclipse, nor a GSX at all.

This whole project, rebuilding cars and engines etc, is really my idea of grade 12 "shop class" because we are "homeschooling". Maybe I should make him write up all these posts, then he would have extra practice for his upcoming English final exam.

 

[We're on Boost]

it really isn't even my car, it is actually my son's car.

Aha, I was going to ask you when you started saying "we" a while ago, if the "we" was you and one of your kids.
So that's great that it is.
My car was theoretically my son's at first. He convinced me to help him buy it when he was 17. It wasn't hard to convince me actually. We went to drive it at the PO's house, and man it was fun. I had never been in one before.
And when we needed to do fabrication work, if it was something we could make out of aluminum, I treated it like it was sort of "intro to machine shop practices" for my son. And we messed with fiberglass a little bit too.
So I hope all this goes really well with the cars at your place!

 

[justacanuck]

It's been a while, I figured I should post an update.

I had the car running quite well but still not satisfied with the log data, I continued to tweak and refine the tune. Each time the tune got better, and the car ran a little stronger, so I persisted to keep working on it.

I think I have the VE table close to a few percent from perfect now and the results are apparent: It runs so much smoother now, and makes a little more power. According to the virtual dyno, the car appears to hit peak HP of ~320HP between 5500-6k and peak torque ~320ftlbs between 4500-5000. I am seeing +300ftlbs from ~4000rpm to almost 6k.

The car demonstrates a really nice/fat powerband that makes it a pleasure to drive. Boost comes on fairly quick, really just a couple seconds to go from vacuum to +16psi, and hits max boost of ~23-4psi after another second and it continues to hold +20psi past 6k rpm where power and efficiency start dropping.

I must say, I am really impressed with the 4g63 platform. I am very happy with the current tune, as well as the performance. I am not sure that I will bother making any significant tuning changes for a while. I may take another attempt in spring at making more power, after we get the Cyclone intake working.

I have attached a log from today's effort, and picture of the log data for anyone interested, as well as a spreadsheet I built that some might be interested in using to visualize the VE, timing, and ignition tables. (*pictures of 3d charts from the spreadsheet below)

I want to say a big thank you to all the people on this wonderful forum who offered suggestions and provided feedback which helped me get the car running so well. I would add, that I now have a much greater appreciation for the level of effort that goes into tuning on this platform.

I am looking forward to doing this again in another month when we get the stroker finished and installed in the 1993, with bigger turbo, bigger injectors, and stickier tires.