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1990 AWD Talon Flash Red 5spd

Linuxcnc69

Proven Member
42
21
Jul 26, 2022
Pachuta, Mississippi
Great thread Mario! Its good to see names i recognize from the old days!
And now I dont feel so outdated after seeing someone else with a working palm and mmcd! Strut that old school brotha!

Btw, so your gonna stick with the awd eibach springs? If so are the fwd ones available?
 

dsmmario

Proven Member
38
34
Nov 1, 2014
Charlotte, North_Carolina
Are you using the stock 450cc injectors? And stock Fuel pressure?
I was just reading that you could run the Evo MAF with 650cc injectors. That's what I'm going try and do and see what happens. I'm trying to find some 650 low z injectors but it's almost impossible to do so. It seems like nobody has them. The is at least one member here that has successfully ran an evo 399 maf and old school fic 650cc low z injectors with 100% stock tune. And according to him, the car runs great. He mentions that he has supporting mods which should go without saying. But he did no mentioned anything in regards to Fuel pressure. Is it the 1g stock 36 psi or did he bump it up to 43.5 psi? Here is the link: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/evo8-maf-with-650cc-in-1g.495560/
Very interesting indeed.
I was running lean with the evo maf and 750cc's. I'm running stock fuel pressure regulator since I have a 190LPH pump. It idled and drove but the fuel trims were maxed out trying to richen up the mixture. I think it needs another 15% larger injector to run without some kind of tuning with the output Hz output of the evo MAF and the slower deadtimes of larger injectors. It's possible a 2g might get away with it, but not a 1g.
 

dsmmario

Proven Member
38
34
Nov 1, 2014
Charlotte, North_Carolina
Great thread Mario! Its good to see names i recognize from the old days!
And now I dont feel so outdated after seeing someone else with a working palm and mmcd! Strut that old school brotha!

Btw, so your gonna stick with the awd eibach springs? If so are the fwd ones available?
As much as I loved reliving my last DSM from the 90s, I ultimately gave up on the VPC and MCCD. With the 660CC chip I was getting too much timing at 20psi and a 16g so I had to flood it with fuel to avoid knock. Like 9:1. So as much as I wanted to keep it old school I'm transitioning to Link before I blow it up...again. I think I more modest 550CC injector and chip would have been a better choice. But the guy who burned my chip on ebay disappeared so I couldn't get another one.

The FWD springs are available if you are interested. PM me a zipcode and I can get you a price on shipping.
 

El Cuervo

15+ Year Contributor
576
25
Nov 7, 2004
Omaha, Nebraska
I was running lean with the evo maf and 750cc's. I'm running stock fuel pressure regulator since I have a 190LPH pump. It idled and drove but the fuel trims were maxed out trying to richen up the mixture. I think it needs another 15% larger injector to run without some kind of tuning with the output Hz output of the evo MAF and the slower deadtimes of larger injectors. It's possible a 2g might get away with it, but not a 1g.
Very interesting findings. Mario, did you check out the link that I posted? In it, Nuzzi reported that with this combo (stock tune, Evo MAF, 650cc) he had "perfect" idle and mid range. And at 20 psi, he was seeing 11.2 afr. Supporting mods are unknown. But assuming that he has a 255 fuel pump and that he ncreased base AFP at 43.5 psi. Could that be why he got these results? Or, if staying at Fuel pressures of 36psi, would it require a set of 850cc Which is the next step up from 750cc's? A 15% would be an injector of 862.5cc. Unless we would go with a step higher, that would be a 950cc injector.
Mario. What are your thoughts on this?
 

Linuxcnc69

Proven Member
42
21
Jul 26, 2022
Pachuta, Mississippi
The math looks sound but I can see Mario's thinking on this, its intended to be a street car to enjoy which we all know isnt always the nature of a 1g especially. :banghead: As we get older the continued trial and error defeats the purpose.
I remember times it taking my obd1 computer days of driving before accepting a new map on the chip. And link adds allot of new advantages.
 

dsmmario

Proven Member
38
34
Nov 1, 2014
Charlotte, North_Carolina
Very interesting findings. Mario, did you check out the link that I posted? In it, Nuzzi reported that with this combo (stock tune, Evo MAF, 650cc) he had "perfect" idle and mid range. And at 20 psi, he was seeing 11.2 afr. Supporting mods are unknown. But assuming that he has a 255 fuel pump and that he ncreased base AFP at 43.5 psi. Could that be why he got these results? Or, if staying at Fuel pressures of 36psi, would it require a set of 850cc Which is the next step up from 750cc's? A 15% would be an injector of 862.5cc. Unless we would go with a step higher, that would be a 950cc injector.
Mario. What are your thoughts on this?
I saw that post but for some reason it didn't work for me. At the time I had 660s and 720s and tried both and neither worked well. Maybe its because my head has been milled a time or two before. But based off maf ranges in theory the 660s should work but since the air values are lower than what the ecu is actually seeing then the ecu will be in a more aggressive portion of the map which can lead to premature knock. Adding more fuel with fuel pressure might have helped him calm that down.
 

El Cuervo

15+ Year Contributor
576
25
Nov 7, 2004
Omaha, Nebraska
I saw that post but for some reason it didn't work for me. At the time I had 660s and 720s and tried both and neither worked well. Maybe its because my head has been milled a time or two before. But based off maf ranges in theory the 660s should work but since the air values are lower than what the ecu is actually seeing then the ecu will be in a more aggressive portion of the map which can lead to premature knock. Adding more fuel with fuel pressure might have helped him calm that down.
Indeed Mario. That might very well be the case. Not to mention that every setup is different for each one of our cars. I'm looking at purchasing an Evo 399 MAF and some 650cc low z injectors to experiment with this set-up. Play with the afpr and see if I can replicate what Nuzzi did. If in fact this ends up being successful, then it will be another option to have. My only problem is that I can't find a set of fic 650cc low z injectors. It seems like nobody has any.
 

dsmmario

Proven Member
38
34
Nov 1, 2014
Charlotte, North_Carolina
I was eventually planning to do some fancy led 4x6 bulbs but Rock Auto has these private label Napa headlights on close out for $5:each. So they will do for now. Supposedly 20% brighter. Even though I don’t usually drive at night since tow trucks are easier to call during the day. Haha.

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dsmmario

Proven Member
38
34
Nov 1, 2014
Charlotte, North_Carolina
As much I loved having back a HKS VPC/AFC combo like I had with my last DSM I wanted to be able to control my timing which tends to go crazy high when you run piggy back fuel computers with large injectors. So I sold my previous setup and purchased a 90 ecu with DSMlink V2. It didn’t come with a cable so I purchased a V3 cable and I can confirm it does work with the V2. Now I just need to start the tuning process now that I have it setup with my Evo 8 MAF and 750cc injectors. I’m thankful we live in a time of YouTube and there are a lot of good resources out there so watching these videos over and over made it less overwhelming.

Scott Laird has a great video on V1/V2 and the MAF comp sliders:

I bought the same AEM wideband as Today’s Project Guide so I appreciated his input on setting up Linear wideband:

Jafromobile’s help with wiring for the wideband was also helpful. I wired into the EGR Temp since I wanted to keep the narrow band.

And since I have a 1990 Boosted Beaver’s guide on the clutch cut wire was useful as well.

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dsmmario

Proven Member
38
34
Nov 1, 2014
Charlotte, North_Carolina
I bought an X-series AEM wideband second hand that the seller said the gauge hadn’t been installed. The gauge wasn’t installed but the sensor was used. And dead. So I bought a LSU 4.9 sensor from Autozone (Bosch Exact Fit Oxygen Sensor 17212) and I able to get plausible numbers. The lead on the Autozone sensor was much shorter but i had some extra cable length to spare. So much for saving a buck. But at least I can start tuning my Link now.

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dsmmario

Proven Member
38
34
Nov 1, 2014
Charlotte, North_Carolina
I bought an ecu with DSMlink V2 marketplace that said it was a 90 on the case. But when I tried to run it I noticed I had no idle switch response on DSMLink. But after swapping pins 6 and 14 the idle parameter worked. Plus my NLTS didn’t work wired up the 90 way so apparently what I bought was a 91+ ecu in a 90 case. It wouldn’t be a big except the tach doesn’t work under boost. The joys of being a 1990 model.

 

dsmmario

Proven Member
38
34
Nov 1, 2014
Charlotte, North_Carolina
Sometimes I look forward to moving on from my DSM, but tonight I cleaned her up and took her out to a car show and had a few good conversations with people that were happy to see it. Those moments make all the frustrating times seem worth it. Plus it was also nice to see s few nice Evos as well.

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dsmmario

Proven Member
38
34
Nov 1, 2014
Charlotte, North_Carolina
Im not a big audiophile but after Jafro’s recent video about upgrading his subs and simplifying his setup I thought about improving mine a little. The car came with some Pioneer separates in the door but I upgraded the front 4” from stock (on 600hz crossovers), and put some NOS 6x9 Sonys in the rear. They all were running off the Kenwood head unit the car came with. It’s rated at 20wx4 and struggled to replicate any deep bass notes. So I bought a Kenwood KAC m1814 4x100w amp. It’s been tested for around 50w rms. So I put the door speakers and the rears on the amp and left the dash speakers on the head unit. The amp fit nicely under the head unit so I didn’t have to figure out a place to mount it in the back. I may add a self-powered sub but for now the bass notes are a lot deeper and the mids and highs a lot clearer.
 

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Dericsh

Supporting Member
1,463
694
Nov 25, 2002
Pearl River, Louisiana
Nice, I like that little amp. Audio has changed a lot since back when I was in high school and into all that stuff.

I liked those under seat subs that Jafro did. That seemed like a nice compromise to not have to lose any trunk space to a big box and less obvious for thieves.
 
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dsmmario

Proven Member
38
34
Nov 1, 2014
Charlotte, North_Carolina
Nice, I like that little amp. Audio has changed a lot since back when I was in high school and into all that stuff.

I liked those under seat subs that Jafro did. That seemed like a nice compromise to not have to lose any trunk space to a big box and less obvious for thieves.
Of course with the 1g there is no room under the seats unlike Jafros Sonata. I was thinking of a powered 8” bass tube that would sit lay by the spare tire to further improve the bass. But it truly is amazing the power of small class D amps these these days for the size.
 

Wizeman76

15+ Year Contributor
43
11
Aug 29, 2005
Wales, United Kingdom, Europe
Love this thread. I still use my palm, so robust. Had to replace my eprom ecu as the caps melted the board, so ended up with a non eprom about 15 years ago. Just never got round to dsmlink because of the ecu. Totally get why you moved on. Nice to see “mature” tinkering on these 1GAs.

I was on a mission to get eibach awd springs in 2010, couldn’t get them so ended up with H&R, which feel great. They do ride a little high but it is what it is. I recognise that little chip at 12 o’clock on your fender/wheel arch, I’m sure you did that with the spring top hat, I feel your pain and each time I see mine I remember exactly how it got there.
 
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