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2G 1998 Eagle Talon - Excessive Clutch Fork Free Play

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nh90tsi

Probationary Member
5
1
May 31, 2022
Concord, New Hampshire
1998 Eagle Talon - Excessive Clutch Fork Free Play

Just picked up a 98 Talon and I'm working through the clutch. There's a noticeable amount of free play in the clutch fork, more than I'd expect even with a worn slave cylinder. The clutch also engages almost all the way at the bottom of the pedal travel.

I've already got the turbo, intercooler piping, and battery brackets pulled off for restoration, so access is about as good as it's going to get right now.

I've attached a photo of the current slave cylinder and a video showing the fork movement by hand so you can see what I'm dealing with.
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My question: with the fork play and the low engagement point, does this sound like something beyond the slave cylinder? Could it be a worn fork, pivot ball, or clutch disc on its way out? Since I've already got everything apart, is it worth just pulling the transmission now to inspect while I have the access? Or should I install the new slave, button everything back up, and see how it drives, knowing I may have to tear it all down again if the problem is deeper?

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It's normal for the fork to move like that without the slave cylinder installed. However, to me it looks like the end of the fork is positioned too far towards the passenger side in the trans cutout when it touches the pressure plate. It should be closer to centered. I'm surprised the clutch disengages like this - and explains why it engages at the floor.

Incorrect flywheel step height, worn pivot ball, worn or bent clutch fork, worn or broken TOB, missing or loose transmission mounting bolts are all possible culprits. Not to mention the slave cylinder is leaking and needs to be replaced.
 
Thank you. Your response aligns with my suspicion, the fork is positioned way too far forward. I haven't run into this before and wanted to ensure I wasn't pulling the transmission for no reason. There is a missing bolt in the transmission, but it looks to be tight all the way around and I don't think the missing bolt is contributing to this issue. Guess I'm going to have to pull the trans and see what's going on.
 
Adjust the pedal by adjusting the rod on the master cylinder. Don’t create a problem if there isn’t one. I wouldn’t pull the trans unless you are specifically replacing the clutch, because if you’re dropping the trans you are opening a can of worms. The worms being replacing the throw out bearing, replacing the clutch fork, replacing the rear main seal, replacing the axle seals, replacing the trans fluid and diff fluid
 
Appreciate the link luv2rallye. I've read in other threads not to pump the clutch when bleeding. In your opinion, is pumping the clutch the way to go or a single pressing of the clutch in is sufficient?

Chrysler Kid - I am torn on this. It is "driveable" at the moment. However, there are times where I need to "finesse" it in order to get it into gear and I think it is related to limited pressure applied to the clutch. My plan was to adjust the clutch via the master, but I started second guessing this approach when I noticed the clutch fork is so far out of center. I'm not sure any amount of adjustment of the master is going to help. I suppose it is worth a shot, if I can avoid dropping the trans that would be the preferred route.
 
Keep in mind, even though the clutch "works," you're on the limit of any adjustability and likely have very little or no tolerance between engaged and disengaged. The next thing that starts wearing are the transmission synchronizers, which should be avoided. I'm not telling you to go pull your trans and replace a bunch of stuff, but if you have the means to do so, I think it would be wise.

There's no harm in pumping the clutch when bleeding. I do it because it's easy. Best case it helps ensure the system pulls enough fluid from the reservoir to get proper movement. Worst case your helper complains.
 
Appreciate the link luv2rallye. I've read in other threads not to pump the clutch when bleeding. In your opinion, is pumping the clutch the way to go or a single pressing of the clutch in is sufficient?

Chrysler Kid - I am torn on this. It is "driveable" at the moment. However, there are times where I need to "finesse" it in order to get it into gear and I think it is related to limited pressure applied to the clutch. My plan was to adjust the clutch via the master, but I started second guessing this approach when I noticed the clutch fork is so far out of center. I'm not sure any amount of adjustment of the master is going to help. I suppose it is worth a shot, if I can avoid dropping the trans that would be the preferred route.
That fork is way out. You're on borrowed time and if you have to "finesse" it you're already eating synchros. My opinion is drop the trans. Replace whatever is worn. Check clutch and flywheel step. Especially flywheel step.
 
I've been going back and forth on what to do here. Finally got around to inspecting a little more and thought, maybe I'll just pull the rubber boot off and see what I can see.... Wow, it's worse than I thought and to echo what dwb was saying, I'm surprised it works at all. The fork is literally pushing against the bell housing and building pressure that way. Thank you to everyone who replied, I'll post updates as I dig into this more.

The cascading effect when fixing these things. I'll update my profile to give a full sequence of events.

Cliffs notes - previous owner put a aftermarket fuel pump with 550cc injectors and FPR. No tuning mechanism whatsoever. Car ran and was driveable but obviously not running right - sluggish and stuttering under power at times. I bought the car initially for the transmission to replace in another car. The car ended up being in much better shape than I was anticipating and I decided to go through everything and try to run it as is. This would give me something to play with in the meantime and allow me to take my time on the car I ultimately plan on putting the transmission into. No grinding in any gears and although the clutch engaged at the bottom of the peddle press, it engaged and disengaged just fine when I test drove it.

Have a ECMlink that I hadn't installed yet, so started with installing that thinking I could tune out whatever was going on with stuttering / hesitation. Installed a new wideband as a solution to the failed 02 sensor, installed a fuel pressure gauge to ensure fuel pressure was set correctly (the FPR that was on there had no gauge so I had no idea what the fuel pressure was set to). Great, all of that is dialed in so I can rule that out. Got everything to idle and run somewhat ok. Something still didn't feel right and I started looking at the fmic, intercooler piping, emissions and figured I would replace all the couplers, remove the egr and at least get it to a point where I can rule out any boost / vacuum leaks.

I was told the clutch had just been replaced and only needed adjusting. Went into all of this thinking that was actually true. I'm still happy with what I got for what I paid for it, just a lot more work than I was anticipating when I started.

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Yeah to me that fork looks maxed out, bottoming out against the housing. The fork also looks pretty corroded and possibly bent.

I have bought 3 “project cars” in similar condition, people with credit cards and a tool set trying to go fast. The black car in my signature had everything you can buy thrown at it and he was trying to have 2 different guys remote tune away his mechanical problems. Anyways long story short this car would buck so back when warmed up that it was un driveable. It turned out to be the throttle position sensor was not calibrated and when cruising and not applying throttle the car would shut off.

The easiest way for me to diagnose stuff is to start back at stock, running stock injectors and a stock ecu and verify why the car isn’t running like stock.
 
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