Yes or no for turbo timers?

[kalilay]

Basically just wondering whta the general opinion of turbo timers is around here...should i invest in one or not? i dont race its just a DD and has basically no performance mods as of yet? maybe wait till more performance stuff gets done , or is it a good idea now? thanks guys!

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

That was worth while. Wet CHRA's are a waste of perfectly good thermal capacity in your coolant. Use it to cool off something that needs to be cooled off, like the engine. Proper turbo timing works just as well and makes for no hastle when taking the turbo on and off, there are that many less places for coolant to leak from, and you aren't running your coolant through a 500+* center section.

Do you have proof that its nessesary? Where's the are reliability tests? Do you even know the coke point of modern synthetic oil? Or once again is this just a case of, well that's how its been done for years, I have no real fact to back it up I'm just going off what I'm used to?

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef6d0b0

I ran my s16G dry for 3 years and it didn't have a milimeter of shaft play when I sold it. I also currently run my e16G dry, as I will with any turbo I ever buy.


Turbo timers > wet CHRA's

No the post above semi=contributes

Saying "Wet CHRA's are for ####ies. Take those coolant lines off and get a turbo timer."
is stupid. Don't post anything like that again.

 

[DGajre777]

Show me some proof that street turbos need to be water cooled to stay within tolerances or to stay reliable. Like I said, 3 years daily driven, 20psi, no problems. Coking is not an issue with synthetic oil.

Do you have any data proving that? What does the temperature change of the bearings in a wet CHRA's look like as opposed to a dry CHRA's during a 3rd gear pull? There's a reason a wet CHRA is usually offered as an OPTION on most turbos, it just isn't nessesary. Its for people too lazy or too cheap to get a turbo timer.

"Following a hot shutdown of a turbocharger, heat soak begins. This means that the heat in the head, exhaust manifold, and turbine housing finds it way to the turbo's center housing, raising its temperature. These extreme temperatures in the center housing can result in oil coking.

To minimize the effects of heat soak-back, water-cooled center housings were introduced. These use coolant from the engine to act as a heat sink after engine shutdown, preventing the oil from coking. The water lines utilize a thermal siphon effect to reduce the peak heat soak-back temperature after key-off. The layout of the pipes should minimize peaks and troughs with the (cool) water inlet on the low side. To help this along, it is advantageous to tilt the turbocharger about 25° about the axis of shaft rotation.

Many Garrett turbos are water-cooled for enhanced durability."

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_tech101.html?#t101_2

Are you saying that one can run a dry bearing turbo with synthetic oil and after a hot shutdown there won't be any oil coking? If that were true, you wouldn't need a turbo timer on a dry bearing turbo, but you say you use one.

 

[1gjosh]

You dont need or even have a use for a tt on your n/t. Even if you do turbo it, if you use a watercooled turbo, the turbo timer will do little or nothing for the car. If you decide to go with a non-water cooled turbo, then yes, invest in a turbo timer if you dont want to sit with the car idleing for a few minutes after a hard drive.

yes. mitsubishi turbochargers are oil and water cooled, so there is little or no need for a turbo timer. Unless you plan to upgrade to an oil cooled only turbo. then i say go ahead and get a TT. if not, dont waste money.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

I was assuming that you would understand I meant, with COMMON SENSE it isn't an issue. Again.... 3 years, 20psi, zero play, zero leaks. You're more than welcomed to stop by and we'll go take it off my friend's Civic (where it has continued to be run dry for the past 9 months) and examine its condition.

I'm not debating the enhanced durability. If you want your turbo to last for 100,000 miles and you're too lazy or cheap for a turbo timer, then by all means get a wet CHRA. I got a used GReddy timer for $40 and I have no use for coolant lines that complicate my turbo install/removal process, offer many more coolant leak areas, and contribute to higher running temps. Could this be why I'm the only person with a big FMIC, no special ducting, a totally stock (and dirty) cooling system, 1 stock fan, and NO overheating issues?

My friend ran his brand new BB 35R dry for a year with no issues at all. And he's the kind of person that beats on it all the time and only let's it cool when there's a song on the radio that he wanted to listen to anyway.

Syntec oil ownz you.


But to reply to the orginal topic. No its not nessesary at all if you have a wet CHRA, that's the entire point of a wet CHRA. The masses of retards that buy turbo cars would never be able to comprehend why they had to let it run after driving. Manufacturers would never be able to sell turbo cars.

 

[v2ner]

Could this be why I'm the only person with a big FMIC, no special ducting, a totally stock (and dirty) cooling system, 1 stock fan, and NO overheating issues?

You're not the only one.

 

[DGajre777]

I was assuming that you would understand I meant, with COMMON SENSE it isn't an issue. bla bla bla...

But to reply to the orginal topic. No its not nessesary at all if you have a wet CHRA, that's the entire point of a wet CHRA. The masses of retards that buy turbo cars would never be able to comprehend why they had to let it run after driving. Manufacturers would never be able to sell turbo cars.

Hey don't blame it on my common sense, when you lack the ability to clearly explain yourself

And I agree with you about the masses of retards comment. I had a few guys ask me why I drive a turbo car and don't have a turbo timer. Did you know that Volvo has a note in their owner's manual that states extended run times on their turbo cars after being driven on the highway? And they have wet CHRAs.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

I love the copious amounts of hearsay on display in this thread.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Hey don't blame it on my common sense, when you lack the ability to clearly explain yourself

And I agree with you about the masses of retards comment. I had a few guys ask me why I drive a turbo car and don't have a turbo timer. Did you know that Volvo has a note in their owner's manual that states extended run times on their turbo cars after being driven on the highway? And they have wet CHRAs.

I believe the Evo does as well. Better safe then sorry I guess. So when someone comes in with a failed turbo, the service manager points to that part of the manual and says "Did you follow this?" and the person says "huh?" and they say, WARRANTY CLAIM DENIED!

 

[nightspeed87]

That was worth while. Wet CHRA's are a waste of perfectly good thermal capacity in your coolant. Use it to cool off something that needs to be cooled off, like the engine. Proper turbo timing works just as well and makes for no hastle when taking the turbo on and off, there are that many less places for coolant to leak from, and you aren't running your coolant through a 500+* center section.

Do you have proof that its nessesary? Where's the are reliability tests? Do you even know the coke point of modern synthetic oil? Or once again is this just a case of, well that's how its been done for years, I have no real fact to back it up I'm just going off what I'm used to?

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef6d0b0

I ran my s16G dry for 3 years and it didn't have a milimeter of shaft play when I sold it. I also currently run my e16G dry, as I will with any turbo I ever buy.


Turbo timers > wet CHRA's

Honestly, to stay on the safe side, Id rather have a wet turbo, still have a turbo timer, while still useing synthetic.
Then you cant go wrong.
To me I understand why your saying you want to take all the coolant lines off because it makes installation easier and makes everything look more simple, trust me I agree with you because I deleted half the useless stuff out of my engine bay.
But then again, not running with all that coolant stuff to your turbo when it could be there just so you can have less to take off whenever you change turbos is still a matter of being lazy. As lazy as ppl who cant idle there car for a half a min after hard driving.

Basically I still dont think you should take coolant lines off that were originially there just to say you will just get a TT to let cool. Sounds easier to me just leaving those coolant lines and not needing a turbo timer. Im sure you will drive your car hard and park it more often then you will take off turbos. For most ppl Id say just leave the coolant lines and dont worry about a turbo timer...
Not to argue with you, you have good points, but thats just my opinion.

 

[mavisky]

I love my HKS Type-1. I run a dry center cartridge td05 18g (no coolant passages in the thing even) and I've been running the HKS on it since day 1. I use it in full auto mode where it monitors engine speed over the last few minutes to calculate the needed cooling time. This is almost always way on the conservative side. 30 minute drive straight to work at 3000rpm for most the way usually equals to about 2-2:30 worth of time down.

The nice thing about the Type-1 is that it's more than just a turbo timer in that I can monitor voltage in the vehicle, I can program both a shift light and a shift beep into the unit (6700 and 6800rpm respectively on my stock cammed car), as well as g-tech like functions for 0-100km/h 0-200km/h and cool rolling timers like from 100-200km/h which can be nice for testing hp. That would equate to a pull from 62.5 to 125. I think there's also ome from 100-150km/h as well.

Point is that it's more than just a turbo timer and with the added hks harness it takes literally minutes to install with a simple tap for the vehicle speed sensor and emergency brake signal line.

 

[GVR4592]

That was worth while. Wet CHRA's are a waste of perfectly good thermal capacity in your coolant. Use it to cool off something that needs to be cooled off, like the engine. Proper turbo timing works just as well and makes for no hastle when taking the turbo on and off, there are that many less places for coolant to leak from, and you aren't running your coolant through a 500+* center section.

Do you have proof that its nessesary? Where's the are reliability tests? Do you even know the coke point of modern synthetic oil? Or once again is this just a case of, well that's how its been done for years, I have no real fact to back it up I'm just going off what I'm used to?

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef6d0b0

I ran my s16G dry for 3 years and it didn't have a milimeter of shaft play when I sold it. I also currently run my e16G dry, as I will with any turbo I ever buy.


Turbo timers > wet CHRA's

If a turbo center section was 500 degrees, it would last a couple of seconds then sieze. Most synthetic oils have a flash point below 475 degrees, 500 degrees means your oil is on fire. Do YOU know the coke point of modern synthetic oil?

Coolant temps are not affected by a water cooled chra in my experience. I've had many different turbo's on my car over the years, 14b, 2 big 16g's, TO4E 60 trim(oil cooled), TO4E 60 trim (oil and water cooled), and coolant temps are always exactly the same. I have a big FMIC, 1 stock fan, 180 degree thermostat, no special ducting or other tricks.

Oil temps are affected by a water cooled chra. I noticed oil temps don't increase nearly as much after a 1/4 mile run, with a water cooled chra. That's one good thing about leaving the coolant lines hooked up.

Originally Posted by evonation tech article
The bearing housing on the Evo (and 98% of all turbo cars on the road today) is water cooled. Water cooling of the bearing housing is something developed in the '70s when oil was not as good as it is now. It was developed to keep the bearing housing cooler after engine shutdown and avoid oil burning on the shaft. It is still used today by all manufacturers but these days modern oils do not burn on the shaft even after hot shutdowns.

That's not true, have you ever taken a turbo apart that was run with synthetic? I pulled the turbo from my cousin's Evo, he uses Mobil 1 synthetic every oil change. That means it's never seen anything but Mobil 1 synthetic. There was coked oil in the bearing housing.

I used Mobil 1 for the 1st 15k miles of my new engine's life. I went through 2 brand new turbo's in that time and both had small amounts of coked oil. One was watercooled, one was oil cooled.

Could this be why I'm the only person with a big FMIC, no special ducting, a totally stock (and dirty) cooling system, 1 stock fan, and NO overheating issues?

If half of the cars with a huge fmic, stock cooling system, no special ducting, and 1 stock fan overheated, people wouldn't buy huge fmic's. You're crazy if you think you're the only person without cooling issues.

Water cooled chra's in ball bearing turbo's are REQUIRED. There is not enough oil volume to keep the chra cool enough to last any reasonable amount of time.

And why do you have to be so disrespectful to people when you post? It's getting pretty old.

 

[compression]

I believe the Evo does as well. Better safe then sorry I guess. So when someone comes in with a failed turbo, the service manager points to that part of the manual and says "Did you follow this?" and the person says "huh?" and they say, WARRANTY CLAIM DENIED!

i dont know about the 2gs but on the backside of my visor it says, precautions for cars with a a turbocharger, says something along the lines of letting it idle, and some other stuff,

but i dont use a turbo timer i am my own turbo timer

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

I have a huge fmic, stock condensor, radiator, and fans AND i put my tranny coolers in series in between the fmic and condensor -- which not only further blocks air flow but in fact add heat to the condensor. No overheating issues here and my a/c still cold.

Florida heat too, not temperate new england.

 

[Defiant]

WTF
You're going to compare a street car to LeMans LMP car that sees WOT for 12-24 hours at a time?

No. The intent was to point-up the difference. I'd be surprised to hear of them using water-cooled spools at LeMans, or in any other racing.

Show me some proof that street turbos need to be water cooled to stay within tolerances or to stay reliable.

You seem to have something backward here. You were the one saying they're not needed. You prove that. Neener, neener, neener.

Like I said, 3 years daily driven, 20psi, no problems. Coking is not an issue with synthetic oil.

I'm sorry, when did we turn onto the synthetic street? Whiplash!

Do you have any data proving that? What does the temperature change of the bearings in a wet CHRA's look like as opposed to a dry CHRA's during a 3rd gear pull?

Again, you're the one with the smart mouth and the claims. You make your case. I believe Mitsubishi, Garret, et al have made mine. I was there when Cannon kits were seizing-up and eating bearings because of coking. Which was when timers were invented- for those who couldn't be bothered to respect an engine, and its turbo, and let it idle-down.

There's a reason a wet CHRA is usually offered as an OPTION on most turbos, it just isn't nessesary. Its for people too lazy or too cheap to get a turbo timer.

Or for manufacturers who want to stay in the turbocharging business.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

And why do you have to be so disrespectful to people when you post? It's getting pretty old.

How am I "disrespectful" every time I disagree with you guys? I see a guy with a blue 1G that posted his differing opinion at the top this page. I didn't see him take any offence to anything I said, he just disagreed. Don't act like I'm attacking you personally whenever I disagree with you, I'm not calling names and I'm not bad mouthing anyone, but yet you all have the balls to keep telling me I "disrespect" people and have a "smart mouth".


BTW, Mobil 1 sucks. Do a google search and look at all the comparision between Mobil 1 and Amsoil or Royal Purple. I know everyone swears by it, but I stopped using it a long time ago.

Dry s16g, 3 years, 20psi, daily driven, zero play, zero leaks, stilling running strong. I think that proves my point right there. Idling the car for a minute or two is just as effective at preventing CHRA heatsoak as running it watercooled. You just need to invest in a turbo timer.

And yea nightspeed, I agree, I'm being lazy too. Tomatoes, tomaatoes, I prefer my form of laziness.

 

[nightspeed87]

its all good.if i ever get a dry chra then ill know who to talk to.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

I think all points have been proven.

If you have a wet CHRA no turbo timer is needed.
If you have a dry CHRA you either get a turbo timer or you stand out by the car while it idles.