X-brace?

[Revolution]

Cool were on the same page. I know of a manufacturer, but do they make one for the eclipse/talon/laser that I dont know as of yet.

The reason you'r fwd car doesnt like to turn is because you cant ) turn sharply while on the throttle ,,unless you progressivly yank the e-brake to induce a rear mini slide,and be because fwd will always understeer.

In japan most tuners will use bigger sway bars in the rear with different wheel offsets and harder tire compounds to help the rear end rotate more freely around corners.
This is where we can learn from the honda boys.

In touring "A" these guys use a technique called left foot braking with sharp turn ins to enduce the rear end to move outward thus helping you when getting back on the throttle.

In north america the tuners lock down the suspension tuning alot more .Club racers will use say a 400 lb spring rate in the front while using a 600 lb spring in the back. Now touring racers will use a 700 lb in the front with a 1200 in the rear.

In an awd car we have to use the same technique to swing the rear end side ways (like drifting).

For example when heading into a corner fast in third ,,you have to slam on the brakes ,while doing this you should turn in sharply, ,(this is what causes the loss of rear grip) as soon as this is done turn half out and stomp on the gas this will for awd drive cars cause a mini drift wich can only be controled by "only" steering while on the gas.


It takes tons of practice, but after trying flying donuts ,you can better understand the mini drift explanation I just gave .

Any how I'll look for the company's name and post a link , unless you can already do that.

 

[Revolution]

Heres the link .

http://www.lokarmotorsports.com/


have fun.

 

[AutoX DSM]

"Useless" is way too strong a term to use when describing non-triangulated STBs.

Yeah, sure, triangulated would be stronger, but here I first have to ask a question: do you really have the lateral grip to make the added strength of triangulated (over plain) STBs useful? Unless you're on R-compounds with decent shocks and springs, I doubt it. And even if you do have the grip to make triangulated useful, there are two other issues to consider: is there a good place for the triangulation to mount? and do the rules under which you compete allow this? In the front of a 2G, there's nowhere to put the chassis point. In the rear of a 2G, you don't need triangulation. And, if you're doing this because you autocross, then take note that triangulation is illegal in Stock, Street Prepared, and Street Modified; a full X-brace will bump you to F/Prepared. And lot's-a-luck there!

- Jtoby

Ding Ding Ding !

Did anyone else read this? you guys are saying that for autoX a triangulated bar would be great, but like jtmcinder is saying here it would actually screw you over. Yes technically it would work better but in reality it's against the rules in any class that a DSM would have a prayer in. I run a VPE rear tower brace, RRE front lower, and Pilot POS front upper brace (that I got for <$20 shipped off ebay) I have found all the bars to lead to improvements even with street tires if you ask enough of the car. The front upper brace made the least difference but that was before I was running RM sways and Konis with coilovers like I am now. (PS my car runs in the Street Mod class)

I am still looking for the ultimate front upper brace and I'll let you know when I find it and who makes it, but even now I can jack up an entire side of my 2g with just the front jacking point. In fact the front tire is only about an inch off the ground before the rear lifts off completely, I'd say that's pretty stiff, and I have no roll bar/cage installed in the car.

There are bigger gains in handling to be had out there than some triangulated STB, if you haven't done sway bars yet I'd say that should be your first stop, when you have the sways chassis rigidity becomes more of a factor and a front upper brace becomes useful. Stiffer springs and a rear brace will really firm up the car but the springs WILL make the ride harder, it's something I'm willing to accept. The last step would be the RRE lower tie because it improves turn in response but you really need to be driving hard before turn in becomes a factor. I also did a full prothane bushing kit and I really like the results from that, it just made everything more precise, predictable, and solid feeling. I don't know why everyone seems to think poly bushings ride badly, I noticed almost no change in harshness over the stock bushings, I think 99% of ride harshness comes from spring/shock setup.

Anyway the point is a triangulated brace will put you in the same class as tube frame purpose built racecars, is that where you really want to try and compete?

 

[Revolution]

It may be illeagle to use for auto x but not for daily driving, would you really need "it" to drive to the grocery store,,,no not really .

In all honest to god truth their is no point about talking about this x brace because ,that said company doesnt make them for the talons or eclipses.

I am still realativly new to this autocross game , and after a 3 events I realized what it would take to be fast in the modified class let alone competative.

Their has to be finess , wich gives me a whole lot more respect for miatas .

If you want to autox ,then the only peice of advice I can give some one is always preview the course lay out the first time out in an event. I ran off the course twice the entire day,wich never impresses the lady friends.

 

[ACM]

If you have a sunroofed DSM and good sticky tyres - say 245/40.17 Kumho MXs - then a rear strut bar of the type RRE sell will stop the sunroof from creaking - ie it's having an effect. A non-sunroofed 2G will not detect any difference unless it's making gobs of power, probably over 400 I'd guess.

If you run good race tyres and good suspension an RRE-type rear STB will improve any DSM.

Charles

It may be illeagle to use for auto x but not for daily driving, would you really need "it" to drive to the grocery store,,,no not really .

In all honest to god truth their is no point about talking about this x brace because ,that said company doesnt make them for the talons or eclipses.

I am still realativly new to this autocross game , and after a 3 events I realized what it would take to be fast in the modified class let alone competative.

Their has to be finess , wich gives me a whole lot more respect for miatas .

If you want to autox ,then the only peice of advice I can give some one is always preview the course lay out the first time out in an event. I ran off the course twice the entire day,wich never impresses the lady friends.

 

[Revolution]

If you have a sunroofed DSM and good sticky tyres - say 245/40.17 Kumho MXs - then a rear strut bar of the type RRE sell will stop the sunroof from creaking - ie it's having an effect. A non-sunroofed 2G will not detect any difference unless it's making gobs of power, probably over 400 I'd guess.

If you run good race tyres and good suspension an RRE-type rear STB will improve any DSM.

Charles

Ok well I never did stipulate on whether a rear strut tower bar wasnt affective , because I already know it is. The question of the matter of topic was about this companys x brace for the cabin /rear hatch http://www.lokarmotorsports.com/

I stated their was no point in continuing this discussion on this said x brace for the simple fact they dont make it for dsm's . I have no doubt that if it were made for dsms that it would have some benifits to ridgidness. But they dont so I no longer care to talk about the matter. I have never liked the what if questions .

I to thought they did make them for dsm's but I see that they dont , so lets focus on the braces and suspension parts that we can bolt on our dsm's.

 

[98spyderboost]

The spyder's have a x-brace built into the body.

The part numbers are 76020R and 76020L. Plus there's 2 other parts in the diagram which are supports for the braces I think. I can't remember on my car. The part numbers for them are 76070R and 76070L.

Next time I take my trunk apart I'll let you know whether they're bolt in or weld in. But I'm guessing weld in. I wonder how much Mitsubishi wants for the pieces?

They are welded in pretty well actually. I am going to be experimenting with different setups in this area very soon. x-brace out and making a little more user friendly setup from 1" or so tubes.