Would this loose bolt mimic a Busted Shift Fork?

[greekgodchaos]

1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD M/T W5M33 23 Spline

Okay so here is the back story: I rebuilt my transmission with basically all the same parts but cleaned up, and everything was fine until about 2 days ago where I was at a stop light, shifted into 1st and then moved forward, I go to shift to 2nd and 1st was just LOCKED in place, it took both hands and some grunting in order to move it into 2nd, this terrified me so I went to my friends place and long story short;

1st and 2nd = No Movement, and a SH*T ton of grinding.
3-4-5-R = Movement.

Then I had to drive 18miles using 3rd gear as my "1st", which cooked my clutch disc. So this morning I began tearing everything apart in order to remove and dismantle the transmission.

Then I came across this:

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Would this bolt (interlock plate bolt) being loose cause the same symptoms of having a busted 1-2 fork? I mean this bolt was LOOSE, mainly because of my BS Delete and Drilled Prothane Motor Mounts, I have been loosing any and all bolts that didn't have lock washers on them, and I am finding that I have lost at least 10 bolts in separate areas because of the damn vibrations.

Here is another picture of it, courtesy of Dre's rebuild manual:


When I had the transmission apart the first time, I noticed that without this bolt, shifting from 1-2 into 3-4 was nearly impossible since the plate wasn't being held in place like it should to keep the rails straight. Also earlier I was able to move the shift linkage ends (on the transmission itself) into all gears no problem, but that's likely because the car was off. Any suggestions at this point? Should I just continue and drop the transmission? I have to anyways to replace the clutch disc with my 6-puck, but between me and my dad, we have 4 cars and are now down to 1. I am seriously hating my car at this point since I could go either way with this

So now here is where I am at:
*The bolt is tightened up now
*I can use the shift levers on the transmission to select every gear
*The transfer case is OFF
*The transmission is DRAINED
*The linkages are OFF (I also found out, for whatever reason, I have 2g linkages)
*The clutch needs to be replaced since it will probably fail soon if I don't.

I will still pull the transmission and most likely tear it apart, but if I only have to replace the clutch that would be so much better. I didn't see any metal chunks in the fluid, just some very fine metal shavings (from the stupid amount of grinding no doubt)...UGH does anyone have any helpful insight into this??

UPDATE: Found this bolt ("Restrict Ball Assembly") Was about 3/4 backed out, here is a picture:

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[____Kurt____]

Since no one has said anything yet I'm going to say give Shep or Jacks transmission a call and ask the professionals.

 

[greekgodchaos]

I finished the tear down, turns out the roll pin for 1-2 FELL OUT. Then bounced around a little bit, funnily enough it didn't damage anything else THANK GOD! Ordered new 5th Synchro Ring, Stake Nuts, Roll Pins, and Lube Rail (broke mine by accident).

 

[turboglenn]

damn, did the pin come out because you set the groove where it can compress when shifted?? that's something i double checked when biulding the 2nd trans after the bolt my friend dropped in my first one came out in 9 miles

i've heard it can happen, this would be the first case i've seen of it though

 

[evileclipse909]

That same roll pin fell out of a tranny I built causing the exact same issue. Good luck with rebuild #2.

 

[JackM]

It is unusual for bolts to just come loose like that unless the engine is vibrating beyond what is considered normal. When you performed the BS elimination, did you remove both shafts or only disconnect the belt? We have seen people disconnect the BS belt and think that's all they need to do when the other BS is still rotating and creating excessive vibrations without the other to counter it.

Also, it appears the bolts you have which are loose are bolts which require a crush washer. If you are reusing the old washers, that could be your problem too. A new washer will crush correctly and hold the torque.

 

[greekgodchaos]

It is unusual for bolts to just come loose like that unless the engine is vibrating beyond what is considered normal. When you performed the BS elimination, did you remove both shafts or only disconnect the belt? We have seen people disconnect the BS belt and think that's all they need to do when the other BS is still rotating and creating excessive vibrations without the other to counter it.

Also, it appears the bolts you have which are loose are bolts which require a crush washer. If you are reusing the old washers, that could be your problem too. A new washer will crush correctly and hold the torque.

I did the full elimination, both balance shafts, OEM bearing blockers, etc. I also installed prothane motor mounts, but I drilled the side ones with 8 holes to lessen the heavy vibration, it helps but its still a bit... shaky, I guess I am still trying to get used to it.

As for those crush washers, I will be putting new crush washers on those both. I have to put lock washers on every other bolt on the engine itself, the motor has damn near shaken at least 10 various bolts off of things; stupid on my part

I ordered some stuff from you a few days ago and I am just waiting for the parts to show up; my Jeep is on the fritz and now I have 0 working cars So I am sort of trapped within a 5 mile biking radius

Oh by the way, could you advise me as to how to clean my intermediate, input shafts, as well as the other transmission components? They just came out of the transmission and there were some small metallic flakes that came from my reverse gear (still fine) and I want to clean them out especially behind the roller bearings, but do not want to accidentally ruin the brass (or bronze?) synchro rings by washing it with something damaging.

 

[JackM]

I would say you are safe using anything. Brake clean, solvent, etc, as long as it won't cause rust and you are able to rinse everything thoroughly. Another idea is maybe talking to your near-by machine shop. They may have a very nice parts washer in which they can run your parts through for a few bucks. I get a lot of people with engine build jobs which want to use my 110gal Ultrasonic for their parts to assure all dirt and junk is completely off.

Another option, and only do this if you have no other choice, is to assemble the trans, and then run ATF in the unit. Run it around the block and drain it. Fill it with ATF again and drive it to work and back, then drain it and put real gear oil in. ATF has a lot of detergents which will help clean and flush your trans. That is another way to get most of the junk out.

Good luck!

Jack

 

[turboglenn]

I would say you are safe using anything. Brake clean, solvent, etc, as long as it won't cause rust and you are able to rinse everything thoroughly. Another idea is maybe talking to your near-by machine shop. They may have a very nice parts washer in which they can run your parts through for a few bucks. I get a lot of people with engine build jobs which want to use my 110gal Ultrasonic for their parts to assure all dirt and junk is completely off.

Another option, and only do this if you have no other choice, is to assemble the trans, and then run ATF in the unit. Run it around the block and drain it. Fill it with ATF again and drive it to work and back, then drain it and put real gear oil in. ATF has a lot of detergents which will help clean and flush your trans. That is another way to get most of the junk out.

Good luck!

Jack

good advice that so few seem to know about the ATF, it also has friction modifiers in it that help shifting and in wet clutches help with clutch grab. dex III w/ mecron is ok and Type F is better, When i raced moto and super cross until i was hurt that 's all i ran in those two stroke trannnies, and even ford uses ATF in their tremec T5/56 units.

I was unable to find gl-4 here recently twice and used a system recomended to me by a friend and it's worked awesome over GL5 which is all i can get, and that's to put a 3/4- to one quart of ATF Type F or Dex III in and then finish the fill with GL-5 if you can't get GL4, Over the time i was forced to use GL5 whiel waiting on MT90 to get here through mail i noticed that by draining a quart of gl5 and putting in a quarty of dex III w/ mercron the shifing improived like crazy (and since it's a lot thicker than synchromesh, i'd say it's probably better to mix gl4 and type F than to run synchromesh alone being it's so thin unless you're 300hp or less..maybe i'm wrong)

as for the mixing of ATF in gear oil, I mentioned this to my engine machinist and he;d bnever heard of it, but there was a guy that circle track races and overheard me and said that it was a common secret they used in claimer class

 

[greekgodchaos]

A question: 5th gear and the VC are always a PITA to get off, can I use Anti-Seize on the end of the shafts so i can easily remove them next time I have to pull the transmission apart?

 

[JackM]

A question: 5th gear and the VC are always a PITA to get off, can I use Anti-Seize on the end of the shafts so i can easily remove them next time I have to pull the transmission apart?

I wouldn't. In time, it will all be washed away and very little to none will be left. When it gets washed away, it mixes with the trans fluid which can possibly wear parts quicker.

 

[turbowop]

Your motor mounts aren't causing bolts to loosen. While they may cause the driver/passenger to feel more vibrations, they don't actually create anymore vibration than the motor itself was already making and those bolts were already subject to.