Wilwood brake pedals and master cylinders?

[Ludachris]

So I'm revisiting the idea of swapping in Wilwood brake/clutch pedals, master cylinders and proportioning valve. What info would we need to determine the bore size of the master cylinders for each? And what would be the best way to route the lines to the proportioning valve?

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

Find your total piston area for each caliper, determine what you want your brake bias is and call Wilwood. They will advise you based on piston area, and of course the line size.

 

[underradar92]

If you mean the 3 master (2 brake/1 clutch) deal, there is a balance bar so, no proportioning valve is necessary.

 

[Ludachris]

Hey Jim, you're right about that, I forgot. Todd at TCE got back to me with his recommendation, since he knows the piston sizes I'm using (4-piston calipers with the larger pistons - nearly the same piston area as the 6-piston calipers). He suggested the 3/4 bore master cylinders, or the 13/16 bore for a stiffer pedal feel.

 

[underradar92]

Any news on this install? I was just under my dashboard again and scrutinizing the layout with an eye on doing this swap. I'd love to ditch the booster and remote(er) mount the reservoirs, much like you see on "real" roadrace cars.

 

[Ludachris]

Got everything sitting in the garage, just have to get around to ripping all the stock stuff out. By looking under the dash I'm guessing I'll have to get the pedals to straddle the steering column. And I'll have to weld a plate to the firewall for reinforcement.

Here's a pic I found of a VR4 - encouraging - even though it doesn't look like a VR4.

 

[underradar92]

That all looks suspiciously right hand drive. Japan/Down Under somewhere?

Still in all, not a bad bit of inspiration, nice find. Might even get me out into the garage again. Kind of been slacking this week.

As for welding in a plate, yeah, that and maybe even a link of some sort to the strut tower or like that. I've seen that on a very fast STI, seemed to be made to eliminate firewall flex.

 

[LONEWOLF01]

Any updates on the new setup?? I am interested since now that I have a real solid daily driver.

 

[Ludachris]

Any updates on the new setup?? I am interested since now that I have a real solid daily driver.

Everything's still in boxes man. And I just moved half way across the country and haven't fully unpacked the garage or the car. We'll see how soon I can get to this, but my guess is it won't happen until this winter most likely.

 

[turboAWDfanatic]

It's Winter!!!! Sorry, I'm just dying to see how this turns out. Have you been able to figure out how you want to go about it?

 

[kamikazeredneck]

Sorry to bring this back from the dead but I know that Wilwood also makes a unit that mounts on the floor so the problem of the steering column would not be a problem and might make mounting easier. I have been planning this setup and was having the same problems with mounting and so I found some that mount to the floor and those would work perfect. I am looking to be doing a complete brake overhaul in the next year and so I have been really exploring my options. I would also like to hear some input on people that have this setup to make my decision for what I would like to do in the future.

 

[Ludachris]

Only problem with the floor pedals is that you probably will have to extend the steering column and mess with the throttle pedal - two things I really didn't want to mess with if I didn't have to. If I absolutely can't get the hanging pedals to fit I'll move on to that plan though.

 

[underradar92]

I have looked at this area of my parts car and think that it may be possible to put a balance bar into the OEM brake pedal. Then making a dual cylinder mount plate for the firewall would be a snap.

Not certain how wide the balance bar is however. This would be a less PITA fitment if it would fit, me thinks.

Car is very low priority these days so it'll be a while before I do any experimenting with all that. Getting a tow rig is next on the table but, someday...

Floor pedals? Like driving older Porsche's. Feel weird at first but not for long. Problem is, not driving a Porsche.

There is no room ahead of a floor-pedal setup for master cyls. but hotrods use a setup that locates the MC's aft of the pedals. This could work.

Chris, was Todd's master cylinder piston diameter recommendation based on aftermarket pedal hangers?

 

[kamikazeredneck]

Floor pedals? Like driving older Porsche's. Feel weird at first but not for long. Problem is, not driving a Porsche.

There is no room ahead of a floor-pedal setup for master cyls. but hotrods use a setup that locates the MC's aft of the pedals. This could work.

I was thinking about the setup where it brought the masters back towards you lying flat on the floor. Considering you have to make and re plumb the whole system this actually could be a very good solution to the problem. I bet with the size brakes we would need around 3/4" master cylinders with remote res mounted under the hood or behind the dash in a more convenient place than sitting under your legs. The reason for the remote res is because if you have the res bellow the caliper you will also have to run a residual valve and figure out how big you need it to be kinda like the ones on drum brakes. To me one less thing to go wrong is the best policy which is why I am planning this Willwood setup and ditching the booster and proportioning valve.

 

[Ludachris]

I have looked at this area of my parts car and think that it may be possible to put a balance bar into the OEM brake pedal. Then making a dual cylinder mount plate for the firewall would be a snap.

Not certain how wide the balance bar is however. This would be a less PITA fitment if it would fit, me thinks.

Car is very low priority these days so it'll be a while before I do any experimenting with all that. Getting a tow rig is next on the table but, someday...

Floor pedals? Like driving older Porsche's. Feel weird at first but not for long. Problem is, not driving a Porsche.

There is no room ahead of a floor-pedal setup for master cyls. but hotrods use a setup that locates the MC's aft of the pedals. This could work.

Chris, was Todd's master cylinder piston diameter recommendation based on aftermarket pedal hangers?

Jim, actually Todd helped me choose the correct size master cylinders for the piston sizes I have in the calipers.

 

[Ludachris]

I was thinking about the setup where it brought the masters back towards you lying flat on the floor. Considering you have to make and re plumb the whole system this actually could be a very good solution to the problem. I bet with the size brakes we would need around 3/4" master cylinders with remote res mounted under the hood or behind the dash in a more convenient place than sitting under your legs. The reason for the remote res is because if you have the res bellow the caliper you will also have to run a residual valve and figure out how big you need it to be kinda like the ones on drum brakes. To me one less thing to go wrong is the best policy which is why I am planning this Willwood setup and ditching the booster and proportioning valve.

Hell, in the 2g, I think the best spot for remote reservoirs would be where the passenger airbag is. Mount them right up there for easy access.

 

[underradar92]

Hell, in the 2g, I think the best spot for remote reservoirs would be where the passenger airbag is. Mount them right up there for easy access.

That is where you see them on a lot of racecars where the rules allow. Out of the hot engine bay and refilling on the go without spilling on the driver FTW!

Jim, actually Todd helped me choose the correct size master cylinders for the piston sizes I have in the calipers.

Yeah, I was curious if that was using the aftermarket pedal hangers or the stock pedals. I'm presuming differing leverage ratios betwixt the two setups, is the reason for the inquiry.

 

[Golfer]

Hell, in the 2g, I think the best spot for remote reservoirs would be where the passenger airbag is. Mount them right up there for easy access.

Any idea when you might be able to install yours?