Will a thicker head gasket help?

[TurboTalonAwd95]

I recently blew a head on my talon and bought a head and was sent to me already machined. i installed the head with a cometic head gasket. the head bight prevously machined was shaved down too much and my valves are hitting my pistons. i was told that a thicker head gasket such as a mitsu. 4 layer or hsk should fix this problem. i know the cometic is about .051 and the hks is somewhere aroung 1.2..technally it should work but does anyone know if this will actually work or is the difference not enough? or has anyone ever had this problem?? thnaks for any help

 

[dsmkid4g63t]

where did you buy the head from man? that sounds like some bad luck...im not sure if the gaskets will help....never had this happen...

 

[rst95eclipse]

It really depends how much material was removed when the head was decked. Only you or a machinist inspecting the head would be able to find out what you have to work with. Normally people use this formula:

.000 decked on block + .000 decked on head = .000 combined + .000 thickness of OEM HG = .000 thickness of new HG

If you can't find a headgasket thick enough, it's either time to O-ring or get rid of the head (it's now junk). Hope that helps. Happy DSMing.

 

[pooker]

To thick will lower your compression, there should be no reason for you blowing headgaskets like that if your not running a major setup. I can guarantee your problem lies else where, in certain cases with new rebuilds I have seen absolutely no blowby because of the rings not being gapped wide enough and blowing headgaskets constantly, but I sure hope thats not your problem.

 

[RayPeters]

This may be a non issue, but are you sure the cam timing is correct?

 

[somdturbo]

Worst case scenario, give cometic a call. they make custom order head gaskets all the time. My brother did it last year, worked great.

 

[TurboTalonAwd95]

ya bad luck is i've been throught three heads. stock=blew, second one my idiot friend installed the cam caps wrong, third one was shave too much. and yes stupid of me it was from ebay. and ya im only running a14b with proper supporting mods. but raypeters i have the piston set at TDC and am turned the cams to enshure they didnt hit and they do at about 3/4 of the way.

 

[delta448]

To thick will lower your compression, there should be no reason for you blowing headgaskets like that if your not running a major setup. I can guarantee your problem lies else where, in certain cases with new rebuilds I have seen absolutely no blowby because of the rings not being gapped wide enough and blowing headgaskets constantly, but I sure hope thats not your problem.

If the head was decked, the compression ratio was already increased. That will blow a stock type HG as quick as anything. A thicker HG could lower it back down if it is not too extreme a thickness. Blowby is not a good thing, the ring gap should be almost nill (but never touching) so that the pressure acts on the piston and not the PCV.

ya bad luck is i've been throught three heads. stock=blew, second one my idiot friend installed the cam caps wrong, third one was shave too much. and yes stupid of me it was from ebay. and ya im only running a14b with proper supporting mods. but raypeters i have the piston set at TDC and am turned the cams to enshure they didnt hit and they do at about 3/4 of the way.

Put them in time and turn the crank and cams together. The 4G63 is an interference engine, which means the pistons and valves occupy the same space at different moments in the cycle.

 

[TurboTalonAwd95]

ok thanks for all the info guys ill try it agian and post pack on my results... this is why i love the site!!!

 

[delta448]

PM replied to. Anything else, post it here for everyone else to use as reference in the future.

 

[TurboTalonAwd95]

Originally Posted by TurboTalonAwd95
hey delta thanks for the info. so your saying turn them together, Simultaneously by hand with or with out the belt on?

Put the T-belt on, make sure you have the cams aligned with the crank for correct timing, and then put a wrench on the crank and turn it over a couple of times ...slowly. If you feel any abnormal resistance or hear a metal click stop immediately, it may be the vlaves hitting the piston(s).

-Zack

 

[TurboTalonAwd95]

Fist off i know theres a hundres plus topics and post on low compression but i have a little bit different problem. I recently blew a head on my 95 talon turbo so i got a new one. It was resurfaced by a local machine shop. I installed ARP headstuds and a cometic head gasket. I did a compression test. it was 25 accross the board. I know its not the valves because i did a leakdown test and nothing for the intake or exhaust. my question is when you resurface a head, do the guiding dowels need to be shaved also and if they werent would this be the problem not letting my gasket and head seal all the way letting all the compression leak? I checked and all timing looks to be set. Any other thoughts on what it may be?

 

[travunder]

The only thing i can think of is to check your block.That could be off a little and wont hold a head gasket.Best a luck to you.

 

[edenTSI]

maybe your head is warped? did you bolt it down properly going from the centre outwards?

 

[FORMONTOYA]

maybe your head is warped? did you bolt it down properly going from the centre outwards?

And if you did do this....did you torque the nuts down in steps, 30%, 60%, then 100% or there abouts? Or did you just torque them down "in one fell swoop"?

No, the dowel pins do not have to be shaved.

 

[TURBOCASS]

Check your piston rings. I had the same thing happen to me and it took the rings out also.

 

[TurboTalonAwd95]

turboclass: you said that you head went also? what exactly happened to you... i blew out a valve? you think that it would take out a ring and if so it would be almost exact same compression on all cyclinders?

 

[TurboTalonAwd95]

finally put the head on and everything but no the car wont start.. I was told by the mechanic that it was like 25 on every cyclinder and that the dowel pins need to be shortened because there too long and not allowing the head and gasket to seal all the way down? does that sound right? do i need to do anything to the rings for it to run properly to correct for the compression change on the decked head?
p.s i went with the cometic gasket

 

[GVR4592]

I'm guessing it's a cam timing issue or a lifter issue. Double check cam timing just to be safe. Did you bleed the lifters when you installed them?

http://vfaq.com/mods/lifters.html

 

[Defiant]

It wasn't the gasket, it was your timing. That's what bent your valves.
You're not going to shave a head far enough for valve/piston contact.

 

[flashburn02]

It wasn't the gasket, it was your timing. That's what bent your valves.
You're not going to shave a head far enough for valve/piston contact.

+1 that would have to have been a MAJOR deck job. Why don't you get a known good head out of the classifieds here on the forums? Put it back to stock and work from there.

If by chance the head was shaved so much that the dowels can't let it seal then you need a new head because that head is garbage. I can't even imagine a head the was shaved so much that a thicker gasket still doesn't it let it clear the dowels.

 

[TurboTalonAwd95]

well after going through two used heads ( one from here ) i used my STOCK head and had it rebuilt ( to stock specs ) with the valves from the head i purchased from online that had a rebuild before it was sent to me. but from other posts it says lifters need to be bleed and im going to check the timing because i think hes an idiot. I dont think he bleed them and he didnt do a leak down or compression test untill everything was back on. so the problem may lie else where...maby the rings?? doesnt seem likey but another member told me he had that happen to him...

 

[TurboTalonAwd95]

ok so i took out the lifter to bleed them..everything went good. i soaked them overnight and i just went to work on them and they wont pump at all. and also the paper clip broke off inside. so now im screwed. but im thinking if you dont bleed them and you try to start the car the valve may bend right..well the mechanic tried to start it...maby he bent my valves on a new rebulid?? im thinking that im gona see if there bent because there was no compression after he "fixed it"
Is there any easy wasy to see if there bent without pulling the head or just compression test??

 

[kyanox]

Something im thinking too is, does your headgasket leak fluid everywhere?

We had a recent problem on mine, hence the research to reexamine what's going on, the problem was this, the head didn't sit on the dowel's correctly, i think they were binding up, so the head slightly rocked back and forth, long story short it didn't seal. Maybe your head isnt seating right. I would check when you put the head on to see if it rocks slightly.

Chris