Wideband Placement

[Absit]

Just curios, where do you put your wideband sensor if you're running an external wastegate and electric exhaust cutout?

 

[gsxboost19]

about 36" from the turbo. Just make sure you have it in parallel to the ground. You want it sticking strait out the side of the exhaust pipe. It will help with contamination

 

[TurboFritz]

...well either way you want it to be a bout 2 to 3 feet from your head, but i dont really know with the whole dump issue, i run a dump and just tune the car from what exhaust is still going through the pipe, i mean shit my car runs great times for what it is so it must be alright to do... thought the cutout i mean it shouldnt change much as if you tune it off the full exhaust side, its a little better flow but i mean i guess i dont have that experience

and you dont need it parallel you just need it on the upper side of the piping or at the 180 mark, the whole condensation thing is only because it sits in the bottom of the pipe so you want it off the bottom.

 

[Absit]

So with the cutout open it'll still be accurate 3ft from the turbo (and consequently 2ft behind the cutout)? Alright, thanks.

 

[TurboFritz]

yea i mean if you haev a sensor in your cutout piping it will work great as long as you put it a few feet bakc from the head, the fact that you have no real exhaust doesnt matter, the only ? that people like to bring up is how you tune off an external wastegate or o2 dump, like i said i jsut tune off the exhaust that is still going through the main exhaust and it works great for everyone i know

 

[knochgoon24]

Put it before the cutout. People have run widebands located in the stock front o2 sensor location just fine.

You don't want a leak in your cutout or flex section to cause inaccurate readings.

 

[TurboFritz]

yea about that whole puttin it in the fornt o2 spot... its a wee bit hot there and though it will work for a bit the sensor is over $100 and is designed to be 2 to 3 feet from the head. these things dont like heat or race gas as ive found out, well leaded race gas haha dont ask. But if ya want to half ass it hell put it in the rear while your at it. But it is very important to make sure you dont have leaks, a leaky flex pipe can cuase the number to be 1 or 2 degrees to lean, so in that case all that will happen is that you will run a little rich.

 

[Absit]

Has anyone with the sensor in the stock location had their's fail?

You're suggesting I just weld a bung into the downpipe then?

 

[zatomz]

If you were to install an electric cutout you could weld it in the proper place and tune it with the cutout closed and then you would be on the safer side. Also, install an EGT gauge in the bung on the exhaust manifold and if you know how to read it right you can determine roughly if your rich or lean (that's how they did it back in the day)

There is, or was at least, a guy in the classifieds selling one for like 8-10 dollars (electric cutout)

 

[Demon33]

Has anyone with the sensor in the stock location had their's fail?

You're suggesting I just weld a bung into the downpipe then?

I've had my Bosch LSU4.2 WB sensor mounted in the stock O2 housing for over a year without failure. It's seen 91 octane as well as E85 and it hasn't skipped a beat.

Based on information here, max exhaust gas temp for the Bosch LSU4.2 sensor is less than 1030 degrees C with an operating gas temp of 930 degrees C. My EGT probe mounted in the #1 runner about 2" from the head never sees more than 900 degrees C at WOT so I know the exhaust temp at the WB O2 sensor is lower and completely safe for the WB O2 sensor due to the distance from the head and from the heat lost to the turbo.

 

[TurboFritz]

ok well either way it goes if you are to read any wideband instructions from any top name manufacturer they say 2 to 3 feet from head for most accurate reading, so non the less yes front o2 sensor hole will work but your ecu needs that stock narrowband sensor for proper adjustments in its own tune, if you get rid of it your ecu will only use your tune no matter the conditions and in hand you will lose power and gas milage every day the temp or humidity changes..... unless you tune everyday, ive ran without the front o2 i know this.... NOW FIGHT THAT POINT HAHA!!! sorry but it is true, yes just weld a o2 bung on your piping and do it right!!!

Are you plannin on runnin a full exhaust besides the cutout dumping exhuast???

 

[Absit]

Heh, just finished reading the Ceddymod thread, seems people can run without the front O2 if tuned for it. I think I'm going to run a tubular O2 housing with external wastegate to keep it recirculated. The question then is where to put the actual NB02.

I plan to run a modest exhaust because the one on the car has holes, no bigger than 2.5" though, with a stock looking and sounding muffler.

 

[LiquidX]

I run my LC-1 in the front location with narrow band simulation on ECMLink v3. Have been doing so for a while now with no ill effects and others have been doing it longer than I have and it's still working 100%.

I don't use a heatsink and I'm using a Holset HX40 to heat things up at 25+ psi on pump gas

If you put it up in the front location either you need to use narrow band simulation or have a bung welded right after the curren bung. Closer to the source the better. NBS is preferred as you'll loose a sensor that would need replaced and you free up an ECU input.

 

[Absit]

I'm going with ECUFlash which if my reading was right last night can't do narrowband sim yet, if that's the case when I get to this part of the build I'll just weld 2 bungs in.

 

[knochgoon24]

If you use an LC-1, the actual control unit has narrowband simulation built in. You just wire up one of the analogue output wires to your ECU where the front o2 sensor normally connects.

 

[LiquidX]

I believe the AEM UEGO has that function as well.

 

[gsxboost19]

The wastegate dump does not matter because at WOT, your ECU does not rely on o2 sensor readings, and you normally only open the wastegate at WOT. And you are fine with the wideband 36" even if the cutout is 2' away

 

[LiquidX]

The wastegate dump does not matter because at WOT, your ECU does not rely on o2 sensor readings, and you normally only open the wastegate at WOT. And you are fine with the wideband 36" even if the cutout is 2' away

WOAH!!!

That is bad, bad, bad, placement then there buddy. That's essentially a massive exhaust leak that the wideband sensor would be seeing then if it's after the cut out; 12ft<36ft.

Closer the better for the sensor if you want very accurate readings.

 

[Swish]

umm now im confused. I installed my glowshift WB (the one that has the optional logging included) and tapped the narrow band logging wires into the stock narrow band signal + /- under the hood and it seems to be reading the same signal my WB is putting out so says evoscan.. i didnt even bother hooking up the wideband logging signal to the ecu didnt feel like pulling the ecu out so i ran some wire under the hood to the o2 plug no probs yet.. (crosses fingers) Someone please let me know if this is going to create a problem



*** I almost forgot.. i am however throwing a code saying the front o2 heater wires or not working or something. is there anyway to short these like you can short the rear o2? or is the same way?

 

[donniekak]

I run all of mine in the stock location, the response is noticeably faster. I haven't had one fail there yet. The inventor of dsmlink runs his there also. People forget that these wideband sensors are oem on a lot of newer cars, and are located 6-8" from the exhaust port many times, by oem manufacturers.

 

[Swish]

If you use an LC-1, the actual control unit has narrowband simulation built in. You just wire up one of the analogue output wires to your ECU where the front o2 sensor normally connects.

ok i over looked this.. i did this but its giving me the heater circuit cel crap now

 

[LiquidX]

It's giving you issues most likely because you were cutting and splicing wires together. You cannot rig stuff and expect it to work the way it was intended 100% of the time.

If the heater isn't working then the o2 sensor will foul up quick and become damaged.

 

[Swish]

It's giving you issues most likely because you were cutting and splicing wires together. You cannot rig stuff and expect it to work the way it was intended 100% of the time.

If the heater isn't working then the o2 sensor will foul up quick and become damaged.

Ok now im even more confused..
because the wideband has its own heater wires coming from the control box. i just took the plug that the narrowband used to hook up to and spliced into the +/- signal wires because i didn't feel like pulling the ecu out to solder the fake narrow band signal from the control box to the pin out. so in actuality, i cant be fouling up my o2 sensor..

here maybe this will help

http://www.glowshift.com/instructions/7-Color-Series/GS-702DL-WideBand-Datalogging-Gauge.pdf

see where it says datalogging/analog out.. i just ran the narrow band signal cables to the corresponding wires at the plug int he engine bay..

question is how do you get rid of the heater circuit issue? im guessing its throwing that code because there is nothing hook up to the heater pins on the plug.

 

[LiquidX]

From what I read, you need to be using a logger. What are you using to log the wideband that is making you use the corresponding ECU inputs? According to your profile, you aren't using anything at all.

Those 3 wires are only to be used with a logging solution that will designate the ECU inputs you tapped into to register the wideband.

Say with ECMLink for example. In the program it shows a list of available inputs to use. Take for example the front and rear o2 sensor. If you tap into the wires, you need to tell the ECU that the o2 sensor is not longer there and this is what is now there (wideband) so everything is registered correctly.

Also, unless you have a way to remove CELs then you will have a light pop up as the ECU is noticing that there is an error with the sensor you tapped into.

So unless you are logging, you leave the wires alone.

 

[Swish]

evoscan and according to evo scan the ecu is reading the same as the wideband is reading.. just on the narrow band line and pin.