Why port the wastegate??

[LKWTSI]

I have read for the last couple of years now everyone talking about porting the wastegate to help cure boost creep. Well, since my engine is being rebuilt and I'm porting all the stuff everyone talks about I thought I might look into this mod and see what it stands for.

I hope my video posts properly, but in it you'll see that when air is applied to the wastegate, it only opens about 3/4". The flapper doesn't even rise above the surface of the turbine housing. I couldn't do it while videoing, but even when I put air to it and then pushed it open further with my hand the thing only opened another 1/4".

So my question out there is this. Is this mod a waste of time or am I doing something wrong?

I've read the VFAQ article and even when you factor in the over exaggerated red lines for where it says to port, the valve doesn't even come that far up. So is the material removal just to allow more gases to escape around the flapper or is it to allow the flapper to open further than I can get it.

Here's the vid's.

Wastegate Travel pictures by LKWTSI - Photobucket

 

[BLINKY619]

dam if my turbo only opened that far i bet i would get hella boostcreep... i think it should open all the way if you put air through the vacuum hose of the wastegate... well thaton my turbo... when i had put the evo3 turbo on my eclipse, it got boost creep on high rpm... so i took it off and ported the wastegate and voila... no more boost creep... personally i think you have a stuck wastegate or a bad one...!!!

heres a piture of when i ported it... hope it helps.... oh another thing, my wastegate did exactly what your does and only open a bit... so i replaced itand it works fine...!

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

Isn't there a mod you can do to get the wastegate flapper to open more?

 

[TSIfreek]

Videos are great I have never seen that done before.
The main reason you want to port the hole is to allow more gasses to escape. Just do the best you can as only way to do it properly is to remove the flapper.
I just moved it as much as I could and did mostly the bottom half. Anything to help it will pervent boost creap and porting the 02 housing helps as well.
I run a full 3" exhaust with no cat and no creep at all its rock solid.

Isn't there a mod you can do to get the wastegate flapper to open more?

No there is not one just port the dam thing we have been doing this for 15 years like this

 

[LKWTSI]

dam if my turbo only opened that far i bet i would get hella boostcreep... i think it should open all the way if you put air through the vacuum hose of the wastegate... well thaton my turbo... when i had put the evo3 turbo on my eclipse, it got boost creep on high rpm... so i took it off and ported the wastegate and voila... no more boost creep... personally i think you have a stuck wastegate or a bad one...!!!

heres a piture of when i ported it... hope it helps.... oh another thing, my wastegate did exactly what your does and only open a bit... so i replaced itand it works fine...!

Just so i'm gettting this right You're saying my flapper should come up/open as far as yours does, in your picture? I put air to my wastegate just like you said and I can't see how the flapper could possibly open that far just on the simple fact the wastegate actuator rod length inside the diaphram is only about an inch of travel before the rod is fully extended, UNLESS, like you say it's jamming.

Can anyone show me or verify that the actuator rod is supposed to move that far. I stupidly threw away my old 14b and don't have another wastegate to compare against.

Thanks for the help.

 

[big_d]

Removing material there is completely pointless... Like you are experiencing, the wastegate doesn't travel near the distance to open the flapper 90 degrees.

 

[LiquidX]

Don't bother porting BEHIND the flapper, just remove the ridge around the hole inside so the exhaust doesn't hit the wall and have to bounce back out toward the hole to exit the o2 housing.

You mainly need to port the inlet for the wastegate and remove a lot of material. The inlet needs to be ported to let the exhaust get in there much easier and to become the path of least resistance unlike when you boost creep.

 

[Spartan coll]

Hey sorry to butt in this thread, but i have a qeustion and since i cant post the thread for some reason, I want to ask about rebulid. Im about to purchase a 97 gst i want atleast 370whp but my goal is 400whp. any of you know of any good bulids because ive been looking. So please if anyone could help. I be would thankful

 

[jeff24680]

Hey sorry to butt in this thread, but i have a qeustion and since i cant post the thread for some reason, I want to ask about rebulid. Im about to purchase a 97 gst i want atleast 370whp but my goal is 400whp. any of you know of any good bulids because ive been looking. So please if anyone could help. I be would thankful

For real?

 

[kimcheefists]

Videos are great I have never seen that done before.
The main reason you want to port the hole is to allow more gasses to escape. Just do the best you can as only way to do it properly is to remove the flapper.
I just moved it as much as I could and did mostly the bottom half. Anything to help it will pervent boost creap and porting the 02 housing helps as well.
I run a full 3" exhaust with no cat and no creep at all its rock solid.


No there is not one just port the dam thing we have been doing this for 15 years like this

Actually there is a mod that you can do to open the flapper more without any porting at all. You just need to mod the the WGA.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...boost-creep-modified-wga-peepers-mod-how.html

 

[Spartan coll]

Yes for real, Im only looking for some help with my bulid. This is the newbie forum it asked a qeustion about a waste gate which is needed to run turbo, im doing a turbo bulid so along with reading i asked a qeustion, whats wrong with that.

 

[kimcheefists]

Yes for real, Im only looking for some help with my bulid. This is the newbie forum it asked a qeustion about a waste gate which is needed to run turbo, im doing a turbo bulid so along with reading i asked a qeustion, whats wrong with that.

If you were going to post in this thread asking about a rebuild, you should've expected a comment like that. Your question had NOTHING to do with wastegates.

 

[JusMX141]

The actuator doesn't have to move more than 3/8" to control boost on properly-working systems.

If you're having boost creep issues, you'll need to add some restriction to your exhaust, use an o2 dump, or do the supporting mods to allow you to run over 20psi where creep will not be an issue.

 

[BLINKY619]

ok i stand corrected
its funny cause mine does open all the way....!!!!!! AND BEFORE THE MOD... I HAD ALOT OF BOOST CREEP

 

[JusMX141]

its funny cause mine does open all the way....!!!!!!

Interesting. I've NEVER seen a MHI actuator that moved more than 3/8"; even the brand new Evo III actuators I have at the shop.

Post a video or something....I need to see this.

Actually there is a mod that you can do to open the flapper more without any porting at all. You just need to mod the the WGA.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...boost-creep-modified-wga-peepers-mod-how.html

Flapper travel has nothing to do with boost control. A properly-functioning wastegate system will open fully when the initial max boost level is reached, then slowly close as the RPMs climb. If it stayed open fully, you'd have dropping boost as a result.

Even Mr. Peepers had trouble with boost creep with one of his special actuators when running a 7cm housing on his 14B. It's all about turbine restriction in the exhaust housing and the exhaust system which follows.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/blogs/mr-peepers/455-boost-creep.html

 

[LKWTSI]

The actuator doesn't have to move more than 3/8" to control boost on properly-working systems.

If you're having boost creep issues, you'll need to add some restriction to your exhaust, use an o2 dump, or do the supporting mods to allow you to run over 20psi where creep will not be an issue.

I get what you're saying, but here's the problem!! I'm in the middle of a complete engine rebuild and I'm adding stuff I never had prior to my old motor giving up(this is a completely different motor not the same one that broke) and PRIOR to taking this turbo off I was running 15 psi on a 3" exhaust cat eliminated and stock O2 housing. I now have a stainless ported O2 housing and 2g ex Manifold.

I did have a bit of creep after I installed my new exhaust and basically what I'm doing now is getting all the porting done that everyone talks about and ran into the wastegate issue.

So I guess I'm asking everyone Is the wastegate supposed to open more than in my vid or is it not??

 

[LiquidX]

We already stated that the wastegate only opens up a little. You wastegate actuator is fine.

This should help you out with your porting questions as well.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...s-about-porting-my-evo-iii-16g-wastegate.html

 

[JusMX141]

PRIOR to taking this turbo off I was running 15 psi on a 3" exhaust cat eliminated and stock O2 housing. I now have a stainless ported O2 housing and 2g ex Manifold.

The new o2 housing has much less post-turbine restriction than the stock housing; combined with a catless 3" exhaust, you have a recipe for boost creep.

 

[pboglio]

Your average exhaust valve lifts 9-11 mm, that ain't alot but its all that is required. Once your "curtain" area exceeds the cross sectional area of the wastegate orifice, there is little to be gained opening it further. That's why they only open 3/8" or whatever.

 

[LKWTSI]

The new o2 housing has much less post-turbine restriction than the stock housing; combined with a catless 3" exhaust, you have a recipe for boost creep.

Good point, I guess I'll have to look into some extra mods to take care of this.

Your average exhaust valve lifts 9-11 mm, that ain't alot but its all that is required. Once your "curtain" area exceeds the cross sectional area of the wastegate orifice, there is little to be gained opening it further. That's why they only open 3/8" or whatever.

Thanks, that's what I was hoping for.

 

[jlr2196]

I actually run a setup close to yours, Evo3-16G with the Evo3-O2 housing & 3" Apexi full exhaust (no cat). I ported my wastegate housing extensively by opening it up to the size of the gasket (you would be surprised how much difference there is) this also allowed me to match it to the O2 housing as well. I then focused on any lips or areas that would hamper the exhaust from getting out of the flapper area. I believe there is a healthy lip around the exit point, I then slightly opened up the flapper hole/port but be very, very careful here otherwise the flapper wont seal when closed (you can also do the larger flapper mod as well but you still have to open that port). I then heavily ported the O2 housing, opening up the wastegate passage as much as possible without sacrificing the integrity of the housing. Or you can go with tubular O2 housing as well.

Don't waste your time cutting back the area behind the wastegate flapper as shown in the pic, as others have already stated your flapper WILL NOT OPEN THIS FAR because it is physically IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE WASTEGATE ACTUATOR to move it that far. THIS IS A FACT!!!! Even with the extended actuator arm it won't open that far.

I can set my mbc down to 10 psi and I will slowly creep to a max of 13psi, I can easily set my boost to 15psi with no creep at all and at my boost setting of 18psi I again have no creep issues.

Hope the info helps because I don't believe some of the statements are very accurate about NOT being able to control creep with your setup and no cat. You indeed CAN control creep with your combo, you just have to do a little work.

 

[LKWTSI]

Hope the info helps because I don't believe some of the statements are very accurate about NOT being able to control creep with your setup and no cat. You indeed CAN control creep with your combo, you just have to do a little work.

Glad to hear of your success and I did take some of the advice about my setup with a little bit of skepticism

I do have a SS Tubular O2 housing and the only thing I need to do is port the WG opening a little more like you said and I think I'm good.

Thanks for all the help and opinions guys.