Which is cheaper and more reliable? Engine swap or rebuild my current engine?

[PearlSweatshirt]

Hey guys, I'm really new to dsm's and I just recently got my 95 gs and it is in no way shape or form perfect lots of cosmetics that need replaced. But the engine and tranny have 192,000 miles on them. And I'm basically going to project car it but idk whether I should just rebuild the engine or swap it with another one. I would like to know which is cheaper and what you guys would do. I appreciate it.

 

[BossGreen]

It'd probably be cheaper to sell the car and buy a gst or gsx. Not many people on here really take the 420a engine on as a "project". Either way good luck to you!

 

[bryanwheat]

It'd probably be cheaper to sell the car and buy a gst or gsx. Not many people on here really take the 420a engine on as a "project". Either way good luck to you!

You'd be awfully surprised how many people mod the 420a engine. There is nothing wrong with it, there however isn't near as much aftermarket support in the tuning department. There are quite a few good options though. As for the original poster, it is really hard to tell which will he cheaper or more reliable. You could buy a junk yard engine and it last a month and then need another. There is also the chance that if you aren't experienced that you will not get the other motor put back together properly if you rebuild it. There are really too many variables.

 

[BossGreen]

You'd be awfully surprised how many people mod the 420a engine. There is nothing wrong with it, there however isn't near as much aftermarket support in the tuning department. There are quite a few good options though. As for the original poster, it is really hard to tell which will he cheaper or more reliable. You could buy a junk yard engine and it last a month and then need another. There is also the chance that if you aren't experienced that you will not get the other motor put back together properly if you rebuild it. There are really too many variables.

I'm sure people do! I guess maybe whenever I see someone modding a 420a there's always those couple guys that try to flame them. Never really understand why people feel the need to do that

 

[PearlSweatshirt]

You'd be awfully surprised how many people mod the 420a engine. There is nothing wrong with it, there however isn't near as much aftermarket support in the tuning department. There are quite a few good options though. As for the original poster, it is really hard to tell which will he cheaper or more reliable. You could buy a junk yard engine and it last a month and then need another. There is also the chance that if you aren't experienced that you will not get the other motor put back together properly if you rebuild it. There are really too many variables.

I appreciate the advice man, but I was looking more at like getting either option professionally done ik that's not the traditional way which is to get someone to help me myself but if I was to take it to a mechanic which would you suggest?

 

[David9er]

Just thinking out loud but....the 4g63 out of a gen 4+ EVO is situated in the same manner as the 420A, How far off are the mounts and how difficult would it be to make that swap?
I know its probably not realistic and the question itself is out in left field but you never know......

 

[PearlSweatshirt]

Just thinking out loud but....the 4g63 out of a gen 4+ EVO is situated in the same manner as the 420A, How far off are the mounts and how difficult would it be to make that swap?
I know its probably not realistic and the question itself is out in left field but you never know......

That would definitely be something. I'm just trying to start my high performance life out and don't really know which way to start

 

[crimsondragon]

Just thinking out loud but....the 4g63 out of a gen 4+ EVO is situated in the same manner as the 420A, How far off are the mounts and how difficult would it be to make that swap?
I know its probably not realistic and the question itself is out in left field but you never know......

Such a swap definitely won't be cheap if you want it reliable. And it won't be reliable if you build it cheap.

97 Eclipse gs Evo V// swap - Page 4 - Automotive Forums .com Car Chat

Thread died off 5 years ago. I can only assume the project did as well.

 

[codym]

You really have to think long term. If you plan on keeping your dsm for a good while than you have tons of options in all reality.

If you swap in another engine , it's not just the motor and your done.
You need a wiring harness , ecu , a complete long block, transmission , as the 420a is a completely different engine and setup than the 4g.

I hope you can weld

 

[grothe3297venge]

He would still have to fab new motor mounts (and be sure they are positioned to keep the engine level), and than re-run all wiring because nothing we have will work with an evo engine. Would take a lot of fab, and that doesn't include anything being done to make the trans fit and work..

I would start sourcing either a junkyard engine, or start looking for people parting out and are willing to separate their engine from the car and what not. First thing is first though, you need to plan a goal of what you want to do, and go from there. Example, you want to stay stock and have a reliable DD, go buy a decent running junkyard engine (make sure its running, check mileage, do a compression test). If you want to install a turbo in the future, don't cheap out as it will bite you in the ass in the end (buy decent low comp pistons, rods, and new bearings and good to go..).

So really, it depends what you can spend and how far you are really wanting to go with your car. Just got done building my engine and I was collecting parts (engine, pistons, rods, 2.7 pt rockers and lifters, arp head studs, and etc.) for nearly a year and a half to make sure I had all parts needed and to do it correctly once. Guy once told me Cheap, fast, reliable - choose 2.

 

[PearlSweatshirt]

He would still have to fab new motor mounts (and be sure they are positioned to keep the engine level), and than re-run all wiring because nothing we have will work with an evo engine. Would take a lot of fab, and that doesn't include anything being done to make the trans fit and work..

I would start sourcing either a junkyard engine, or start looking for people parting out and are willing to separate their engine from the car and what not. First thing is first though, you need to plan a goal of what you want to do, and go from there. Example, you want to stay stock and have a reliable DD, go buy a decent running junkyard engine (make sure its running, check mileage, do a compression test). If you want to go the turbo in the future route, don't cheap out as it will bite you in the ass in the end (buy decent low comp pistons, rods, and new bearings and good to go..).

So really, it depends what you can spend and how far you are really wanting to go with your car. Just got done building my engine and I was collecting parts (engine, pistons, rods, 2.7 pt rockers and lifters, arp head studs, and etc.) for nearly a year and a half to make sure I had all parts needed and to do it correctly once. Guy once told me Cheap, fast, reliable - choose 2.

Well I definitely want to turbo it. So what you are saying is that I should rebuild the engine with good performance parts and then go from there? Sorry I'm just really new to dsm's and really motors in general

 

[grothe3297venge]

That is exactly what I am saying. If you plan on doing a performance build, know that you are in it for the long haul . Just for the love of everything, do it once and do it right so you aren't back tracking to fix things. As I said, you need your car running this weekend, go get a junkyard engine and use it. Then take the engine that is out and work your way up with it.

Nevermind you said it was a project. Honestly, do some of the work yourself, save some cash incase something goes wrong. I never built an engine in my life, followed a write up on 2gnt and did a lot of research before hand and my car was running great before I stored it for winter. Some patience and triple checking torque specs, you could easily put the head on yourself and do timing components and what not!

 

[PearlSweatshirt]

I really appreciate the advice man. Just my second car, but it's basically all I've ever wanted. So I'm gonna make it count.

 

[grothe3297venge]

I really appreciate the advice man. Just my second car, but it's basically all I've ever wanted. So I'm gonna make it count.

No problem! All the details you will ever need can be found on here and 2gnt.com. Only thing I would say I would of done differently with my built engine is install it, broke it in, and than put the turbo kit on. I put the turbo kit on right way with the built engine and unhooked the wastegate, which took that much more time for install and what not! Good luck, can't wait to see what you decide to do!

Lastly, don't go cheap when you get to how you want to tune the car. Have only a couple choices sadly which are the Portfueler and megasquirt. Depending on your goals will decide which one you will want/need. Pleassssse do not go with an 12:1 FMU setup !

 

[David9er]

Normally when it comes it comes to just about any engine it is usually cheaper to rebuild assuming you can rebuild it yourself. This process also nets you a brand new engine with essentially 0 miles on it, something you can't get out of a swap unless it is a crate motor or block but in that case you are probably shelling out the cash.

The issue you will have is that there is a limited market of parts for the 420A motor that is in your car, sure you can get a rebuild kit and and other OE parts from autozone and O'rielys, But you said this is a project car so I would imagine you want to push the envelope and that is going to be difficult. If you want to get really serious like 500+ hp you will end up having to get parts like pistons, rods, manifolds, etc custom made. The vast majority for cars you will see on here have the 4G63 motor which has a ton of aftermarket support.

The problem is in the early days Mitsubishi put the 4G63 in DSMs backwards from any other FWD car ever made not named Honda and used an extra shaft in the transmission so the wheels would spin the correct way. Your engine is made by Chrysler so it was installed on the opposite side of the engine bay facing the other direction.

The EVO was always Mitsubishi's golden child because it was raced in the WRC so it got all the new good parts every year while the DSMs where the red headed stepchild and thus got hand me downs every so often. As a result of the competion in the WRC Mitsubishi decided that the extra shaft in the transmission was too much of a drawback for its poster child. After the EVO III they moved the 4G63 to the passenger side of the car and redesigned the tranny and diff but never got around to doing it for the DSMs.

This is why I think there may be a chance that the 4G63 from an EVO 8 or 9 might fit but it would probably take some serious modification and you would have to come up with a drive shaft, rear end, and probably the rear suspension from a GSX to make it work. Easier said than done.

 

[bryanwheat]

Normally when it comes it comes to just about any engine it is usually cheaper to rebuild assuming you can rebuild it yourself. This process also nets you a brand new engine with essentially 0 miles on it, something you can't get out of a swap unless it is a crate motor or block but in that case you are probably shelling out the cash.

The issue you will have is that there is a limited market of parts for the 420A motor that is in your car, sure you can get a rebuild kit and and other OE parts from autozone and O'rielys, But you said this is a project car so I would imagine you want to push the envelope and that is going to be difficult. If you want to get really serious like 500+ hp you will end up having to get parts like pistons, rods, manifolds, etc custom made. The vast majority for cars you will see on here have the 4G63 motor which has a ton of aftermarket support.

The problem is in the early days Mitsubishi put the 4G63 in DSMs backwards from any other FWD car ever made not named Honda and used an extra shaft in the transmission so the wheels would spin the correct way. Your engine is made by Chrysler so it was installed on the opposite side of the engine bay facing the other direction.

The EVO was always Mitsubishi's golden child because it was raced in the WRC so it got all the new good parts every year while the DSMs where the red headed stepchild and thus got hand me downs every so often. As a result of the competion in the WRC Mitsubishi decided that the extra shaft in the transmission was too much of a drawback for its poster child. After the EVO III they moved the 4G63 to the passenger side of the car and redesigned the tranny and diff but never got around to doing it for the DSMs.

This is why I think there may be a chance that the 4G63 from an EVO 8 or 9 might fit but it would probably take some serious modification and you would have to come up with a drive shaft, rear end, and probably the rear suspension from a GSX to make it work. Easier said than done.

Oh get out of here, there are many many 420a forged parts on the shelf of tons of vendors that will support 500+ horsepower. You would not have to have one single custom made part to achieve this kind of power. There is no reason to start with the which is better conversation here. The guy asked which is more reliable, a junk yard engine or a rebuilt engine. Pretty simple, he wasnt asking if he should just sell his car or spend 20k plus to pay someone to swap an Evo engine in his car.

 

[DSM1G90]

Honda was the only FWD company from Japan to have the belt side of the motor on the right (US passenger) side.

Some of the early FWD vehicles from Japan also had the belt side on the left (US driver's) side.

Kinda makes sense to have the motor spin opposite direction of the front wheels for more direct power than having an intermediate shaft to spin opposite to turn the wheels the same direction of the crank and lose some power in the process.

Old Kawasaki twin cylinder motorcycles also rolled their crank opposite of the rear wheel direction.

I call a rebuilt a more reliable one than a junkyard one - who knows, that junkyard block could have internal cracks, scarred piston walls or similar for some odd reason and you got yourself a good doorstop or a boat anchor.

And the 420A is an undersquare motor, which is internally balanced and no BS shaftwork to worry about - gives you lots of easy windup off the line .. kinda made for rally driving.

It's basic brother is the DODGE NEON 420A

Find pistons to lower compression down to 8.5 or so to make a turbo monster out of it with the necessary equipment to make it run right.

 

[DogWhistle]

The OP's key words were "I'm really new to dsm's...". All of us know that even just rebuilding an engine involves more work and parts than we originally planned on. The OP does not need to dive into an engine swap for his first DSM project.

OP: Rebuild your current engine and enjoy your car. You'll learn so much about DSMs in the process. You can always swap in a different engine later when you've learned more about your options.

 

[tylersevo]

OP: Rebuild your current engine and enjoy your car. You'll learn so much about DSMs in the process. You can always swap in a different engine later when you've learned more about your options.

Agreed. I rebuilt my stock 7 bolt with the help of a local and it was one of the best learning experiences I've ever been engaged in. Not to mention you will learn to love your car that much more!

 

[David9er]

Oh get out of here, there are many many 420a forged parts on the shelf of tons of vendors that will support 500+ horsepower. You would not have to have one single custom made part to achieve this kind of power. There is no reason to start with the which is better conversation here. The guy asked which is more reliable, a junk yard engine or a rebuilt engine. Pretty simple, he wasnt asking if he should just sell his car or spend 20k plus to pay someone to swap an Evo engine in his car.

I had no idea there was that much support for the 420A. Very good info to know and I will defiantly keep it in mind. I was not trying to start a debate on anything. All I was trying to do was Inform the OP since he stated he was new to the DSM scene, hence the history lesson.

He did state this is not his DD and that this was going to be a project. Most people take the "gloves off" when it comes to a pure project car so I simply wanted to show him the options available to him since he can't simply take the same route most of do.

As far as options go, DSM1G90 has a great one that completely slipped my mind. The 420A is a cousin of the PT Curiser GT's A855 and Neon SRT-4 A853 so that may be a very viable option with minimal fabrication.

At the end of the day these are just options. How much time, effort, and money you put into it depend on what your goals are which is your preference.

 

[Wanagofast]

Rebuild the 420a its a good engine. You take car of it and it will take care of you. Its no racer but you can always build it the way you want it. (fast or eco) I rebuilt mine and it runs great. I drove the thing off a 8 foot incline going 60. Only broke the line to my slave cylinder. bent everything else. Only thing i regret in that car is having my friend drive me and the girl in my car home in his girl lil prelude.

 

[bigdnno98]

Agreed. If you like the car and aren't looking to make 500hp just rebuild your current engine. Much cheaper and it's actually a good motor

 

[PearlSweatshirt]

high performance life?.. well err... then get rid of the 420A...

I mean I'm not looking for insane horsepower and speed etc. I just want something that will turn a head or two. Lol I'm not gonna throw my car in drag races.

 

[shifty2006]

I started with a n/t years ago had two motors for it one to drive one to smog hit hard times and had to sell the toy and keep it Eco my ex blew the motor months later after crashing her car (should have been a sign) you have it you can get a lot done with it but don't expect to drop small cash and push like a 63 motor rebuild it they are tuff but if you are going to boost for any decent gain then you are going to put in way more then someone with a 63. Some took it as a pride thing to run that motor since all the big cars were 63 but it's all what you want. I used to get told all the time mine was the cleanest dsm they had seen.. I traded it for a lancer to commute my ex.. Big mistake. But just know the facts if your n/t and have to worry about smog every two years I had to swap. But I had a blast with it now I have someone else's hack job of gst and doing my best to keep it moving. Don't give up on the 420a it will take a beating but it will take time to get it to move like you want and if you ever switch to a 63 motor it's a stiff learning curve like a fine women only wants the best stuff.

 

[grothe3297venge]

high performance life?.. well err... then get rid of the 420A...

You sir are a genius.. If you read the thread than you knew exactly what he meant so get out of here with that shit, don't have anything relevant to the topic other than sell it, don't say anything.

Again, OP take comments like that with a grain of salt.. Have you figured out what you're gonna do build wise and what not yet?