What turbo for my build? 4g63 guys jump in

[freakingbori617]

Ok guys I have a turbo 420a 10.5:1 cr. Here is my build thread if it helps, 2GNT.com Forums - Viewing topic - Freakingbori617 Turbo Build. I have since upgraded to BC0166 cams and im running e85, my problem is Ive been switching turbos left to right trying to find the right one. I want to make at least 400hp but 500hp would be nice. Since I have high compression does this mean I can run a small turbo and still achive high numbers without getting choked up top?

 

[gabytech]

First thing to take into account, will the car be a daily driver, street/track, or track race car ???? The right turbo setup depends on what type of racing will you plan on doing. There's more into play than targeted horsepower when it comes to chossing the right turbo size. There are a lot of ppl that bolt a big turbo on a street car and tend to change to a smaller turbo after realizing they went overboard. I would suggest to call a well knowledgable DSM turbo shop like Forced Performance, they will definetly guide you towards choosing the right turbo for your build. A lot of ppl will tell you which turbo to use, but I could bet most of them don't know how to read a compressor map. For a daily driven DSM I would suggest a Big T28 and for a street/track DSM a FP HTA DSM76 Ball Bearing turbocharger.

 

[KAOI]

I want to make at least 400hp but 500hp would be nice. Since I have high compression does this mean I can run a small turbo and still achive high numbers without getting choked up top?

When you say "small turbo" I'm assuming literally a small turbo not a "smaller" turbo.....

A reasonable target for say a 14b would be 270 (some are nailing 300-320 with supporting mods). With say a big 16g you're pumping out around 38 lb/min you might be able to eek out 42 but ideally you're probably gonna be looking at 370 with supporting mods i.e. fuel mods.

Past that you're looking at big turbos

There are limitations with the 420 engine when compared to the 4g63 when it comes to boosting... however if you have the funds anything is possible.

Moral of the story is you need a large turbo to reach those numbers.
good luck

P.S. Just checked out the build man. Love it. Looks good.

 

[freakingbori617]

First thing to take into account, will the car be a daily driver, street/track, or track race car ???? The right turbo setup depends on what type of racing will you plan on doing. There's more into play than targeted horsepower when it comes to chossing the right turbo size. There are a lot of ppl that bolt a big turbo on a street car and tend to change to a smaller turbo after realizing they went overboard. I would suggest to call a well knowledgable DSM turbo shop like Forced Performance, they will definetly guide you towards choosing the right turbo for your build. A lot of ppl will tell you which turbo to use, but I could bet most of them don't know how to read a compressor map. For a daily driven DSM I would suggest a Big T28 and for a street/track DSM a FP HTA DSM76 Ball Bearing turbocharger.

I do realize this and but failed to mention. This is my daily driver I also like want a turbo that doesnt bore me to death on the street but that can also put some ponies down. I also am limited to a t3 turbo on my manifold. I also dont want to run anything above 21-23psi, I do understand everyturbo flows different at any given pressure.

 

[dsmvenge]

what about an hx35 or 40

 

[freakingbori617]

When you say "small turbo" I'm assuming literally a small turbo not a "smaller" turbo.....

A reasonable target for say a 14b would be 270 (some are nailing 300-320 with supporting mods). With say a big 16g you're pumping out around 38 lb/min you might be able to eek out 42 but ideally you're probably gonna be looking at 370 with supporting mods i.e. fuel mods.

Past that you're looking at big turbos

There are limitations with the 420 engine when compared to the 4g63 when it comes to boosting... however if you have the funds anything is possible.

Moral of the story is you need a large turbo to reach those numbers.
good luck

P.S. Just checked out the build man. Love it. Looks good.

I used to have a gt35 but was too laggy for my liking. Even with my cr I would have to go with a big turbo for those numbers? I currently run a godspeed .50 trim, just doesnt feel right to me. I need to find a good balance between the two.

 

[KAOI]

what about an hx35 or 40

Hx-35/40 would totally get you over the 400 mark.... Its just
OP has 10.5:1 comp. Granted he's running e85 but you're going to have to boost to 20+ psi to see near 400 hp

 

[gabytech]

I do realise this and but failed to mention. This is my daily driver I also like want a turbo that doesnt bore me to death on the street but that can also put some ponies down. I also am limited to a t3 turbo on my manifold.

A well combined and tuned 300hp car will eat for breakfast a 400hp car that was build just by thowing parts to the engine. The first most common mistake when building a performance car is targeting a hp figure. If this project car you are building will be your daily driven car, mid range will be as important as top end.

A few years ago, I built a street daily driven 2G for a customer and we went with a Big T28 and all I can say the customer was NOT at all bored to death with the results he ate Corvettes and Supras day and night... He went mid 12s in his daily driven drag radial GST Eclipse, which is a beast car for a daily driven machine. If my memory serves me right, it was in the 350ish hp range when dyno tuned.

Don't wrap your head in building a 400-500hp daily driven car... Wrap your head in having a reliable fast daily driven machine.

 

[DSMTyson]

Any variation of the Garrett GT30R would be perfect for your goals.

I think an FP 3052 or 3065 would suit your setup nicely. Or even the newer DSM76HTA.

 

[gabytech]

Those 3 turbo are amazing turbos for a street DSM, but for a DAILY DRIVEN DSM the best turbo flat out is the Big T28. A weekend street car wont be driven the same way as a daily driven car. A Big T28 is the perfect turbo for a car that will be daily driven and will perform when stepping WOT pedal.

TRUST ME BORICUA !!!!

 

[eclipse420ags]

A 16g or 20g would be fun. 16g wont get you to 400hp easily tho.

 

[DSMTyson]

The T28 is nothing special. Mostly a waste of money. Its going to grenade at some point just like the T25s. Sure it spools fast, but it costs way more then its worth. An Evo III 16G would even be a better decision..

4-500hp.

Not 320whp with no top end whatsoever...

 

[gabytech]

The T28 is nothing special. Mostly a waste of money. Its going to grenade at some point just like the T25s. Sure it spools fast, but it costs way more then its worth. An Evo III 16G would even be a better decision..

4-500hp.

Not 320whp with no top end whatsoever...

I get the Big T28 is a expensive turbo compared to Evo III 16G. Still the Big T28 is more than capable on taking big machines in the streets day and night and keep the car daily driven reliable. We can have a debate back and forth about turbo selection and I'll still stand up for the Big T28 been the best turbo for a daily driven 2L performance car, DAILY DRIVEN BEEN THE KEY WORD... If it would be a weekend fun performance car since it will be a whole other ball game, I would definetly suggest a bigger turbo than the Big T28.

BTW, if you think a Big T28 has no top end power whatsoever, definetly you have never been behing the wheel of a Big T28 DSM. A REAL DAILY DRIVEN MACHINE DOESNT SOLELY RELY ON TOP END POWER MORE THAN MID RANGE POWER.

And to add to it, we plowed a GSX running a bigger turbo with our little GST running the Big T28 turbo on the streets. HORSEPOWER AINT WHAT MATTERS, COMBINATION IS THE KEY WORD....

 

[freakingbori617]

Those 3 turbo are amazing turbos for a street DSM, but for a DAILY DRIVEN DSM the best turbo flat out is the Big T28. A weekend street car wont be driven the same way as a daily driven car. A Big T28 is the perfect turbo for a car that will be daily driven and will perform when stepping WOT pedal.

TRUST ME BORICUA !!!!

Ya tu sabe papa!!! But the problem I see with using a t28 is that my compression is already high plus the added spark with e85 and a smaller turbo like that. I feel that then im going to run into some serious traction problems.

The T28 is nothing special. Mostly a waste of money. Its going to grenade at some point just like the T25s. Sure it spools fast, but it costs way more then its worth. An Evo III 16G would even be a better decision..

4-500hp.

Not 320whp with no top end whatsoever...

A big 16g seems like a good option IF IT CAN GET ME TO MY GOAL. Would I be better off going with maybe a 18g or 20g? Or should I give the 16g a shot?

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

Wow. People really don't read. He said he's limited to a t3 cause of his manifold and don't want to run more then 21. Most of those turbos you will need to run 25+ psi to get the rang he wants.I would go hx35 or 40. Might not give you 400-500hp but it's durable as hell and a good platform if set up right.

 

[KAOI]

You can knick the 400's by maxing a big 16g... You could reach 400's much easier with an 18g but you still are going to run into that pesky issue of high comp ratio + boost.

 

[freakingbori617]

Wow. People really don't read. He said he's limited to a t3 cause of his manifold and don't want to run more then 21. Most of those turbos you will need to run 25+ psi to get the rang he wants.I would go hx35 or 40. Might not give you 400-500hp but it's durable as hell and a good platform if set up right.

If I were to run a hx35 should I run the stock turbine housing or get a .63 housing ?

 

[gabytech]

Ya tu sabe papa!!! But the problem I see with using a t28 is that my compression is already high plus the added spark with e85 and a smaller turbo like that. I feel that then im going to run into some serious traction problems.

High compression motors will spool quicker and make more power at the same boost level than a lower compression motor, the difference is that its a lot easier to avoid detonation with lower compression. E85 fuel will help prevent detonation, but will decrease fuel mileage. E85 holds a lot of promise as a renewable motor fuel, but it must be used in dedicated engines that are engineered to take advantage of its pros while mitigating its cons. Been your car will be a DAILY DRIVEN CAR, I wouldn't recommend E85 and high compression piston combination as your fuel and pistons choice. But you already have high compression pistons, so you have to work with what you got. If you decide to run with E85 go with a bigger turbo than a Big T28, like the DSM76HTA.

REMEMBER YOUR KEY WORD SHOULD BE DAILY DRIVEN !!!!!!!!!

Im not about to slap face what Ive done before once again, but Im going to say Im a certified ASE Technician and a certified Mercedes Benz USA Technician with over 10+ years experience wrenching and fixing cars, race cars and road race sportbikes. This aint my weekend hobby, this is how I make my living. I know what Im talking about.

 

[freakingbori617]

High compression motors will spool quicker and make more power at the same boost level than a lower compression motor, the difference is that its a lot easier to avoid detonation with lower compression. E85 fuel will help prevent detonation, but will decrease fuel mileage. E85 holds a lot of promise as a renewable motor fuel, but it must be used in dedicated engines that are engineered to take advantage of its pros while mitigating its cons. Been your car will be a DAILY DRIVEN CAR, I wouldn't recommend E85 and high compression piston combination as your fuel and pistons choice. But you already have high comprssion pistons, so you have to work with what you got. If you decide to run with E85 go with a bigger turbo than a Big T28, like the DSM76HTA.

REMEMBER YOUR KEY WORD SHOULD BE DAILY DRIVEN !!!!!!!!!

Im not about to slap face what Ive done before once again, but Im going to say Im a certified ASE Technician and a certified Mercedes Benz USA Technician with over 10+ years experience wrenching and fixing cars, race cars and road race sportbikes. This aint my weekend hobby, this is how I make my living. I know what Im talking about.

I only live 15mins at most from a e85 station. I dont drive my car much, but I use it everyday. Even with the worst fuel economy I still only seem to go once a week to fill up.

 

[Clutch450]

Definitely look into the HX35 and HX40 turbos. Both can carry you way over 400hp. They spool very quickly for their size and relatively cheap to buy.
Or go full ball bearing and look into FP's HTA turbos or the 3065

 

[gabytech]

I only live 15mins at most from a e85 station. I dont drive my car much, but I use it everyday. Even with the worst fuel economy I still only seem to go once a week to fill up.

Sounds fair enough. I would suggest to give either Forced Performance, Garrett, or Turbonetics, etc a call and talk to tech support. They'll know what turbo should be the best option to go with. No offense to other members here, but don't rely only on ppl opinions. Most ppl here have no REAL clue how an engine work and tend to be "magazine wrenchers". Over and over again I'm constanly reading ppl who bolt this and that turbo and their car isn't performing at its top potencial. Even real hardcore drag racers call tech support for help when choosing turbos.

 

[AK Maniak]

I personally would go with something bigger than a t28 because you'll probably end up wanting more. Perhaps a 71HTA or a 68HTA. Even a 20g would probably be a good fit for the power levels you are looking for.

 

[canada4g63]

You can make 500whp with E316g, with your high compression, as long as you have supporting mods 400 should be easy with E85, but you can sorce a hx-35/40 all day for cheap.

 

[gabytech]

Don't focus on horsepower, focus on spool up times... The key word should be daily driven, NOT horsepower. It should feel comfortable and provide full boost at around 3200-3500 for it to be a reliable daily driven machine. Choose the turbo that offers the best possible compromise between spool-up and your power goals, but keep it real and don't day dream. The HX35 should spool around 3,500-4000RPMs and a HX40 should spool above 4000RPMs. I personally have no experience and knowledge with the HX35/40 turbos, Ive always used Garrett turbos...

Remember that cams, manifold design, intake manifold, exhaust, intercooler, intecooler piping, etc affect spool up times...

 

[AK Maniak]

You can make 500whp with E316g, with your high compression, as long as you have supporting mods 400 should be easy with E85, but you can sorce a hx-35/40 all day for cheap.

Ya no... Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the record on a DSM 499? And that sure as hell won't be easy.