What do you think of my dyno day!

[JiggahMan]

besides Jman suggestions, are they any others I can try before i leave to go out for the day and Log/tune.

Jman you are saying to correct as follows right?

4600 -42

5000 -45

6000 -45

and leave the rest -50 correct?

Precisely. I say leave the rest at -50 because the timing is still advancing while they're at -50. After you rid the knock off @5700 rpm you should be at or near the top timing stock 2g ecus like to run.

 

[boostyGST]

awesome, I am going to go make the adjustments, log and then post them up ton........thks man.

 

[red91gst]

First off, these numbers are right in line with other cars with the same setups on our dyno. You also have a restrictive stock O2 housing, Greddy FMIC, stock intake manifold etc.

Secondly, this is a 2g with ONLY an AFC. That means no timing adjustment. No Super ITC, no DSMlink, no power switch CAS. With a setup like this one has to tune for a target AFR and hope the ECU does a good job with the timing.

Its never a good idea to us a dyno for simply a number. Thats not what a dyno is for. On the first pull your car made somthing in the low 200whp range.

The reason I didnt use your logger is because the "timing curve" is non-adjustable. If it is detonating at that boost pressure and that AFR, there is another problem. This is the reason I hate knock sensors; and the reason I don't us one in my car and the race car.

Flame-suit on.

Nate
SBR

 

[keltalon]

A local guy here just put down 310WHP on a G50. He runs a 1G engine, 264cams and around 21 psi of boost. This was all tuned at Tapp Auto, previous home of the 9 sec street driven talon.

So, I would say 307WHP at 20psi is tuned fairly well.[/QUOTE completely agree

 

[JiggahMan]

First off, these numbers are right in line with other cars with the same setups on our dyno. You also have a restrictive stock O2 housing, Greddy FMIC, stock intake manifold etc.

Secondly, this is a 2g with ONLY an AFC. That means no timing adjustment. No Super ITC, no DSMlink, no power switch CAS. With a setup like this one has to tune for a target AFR and hope the ECU does a good job with the timing.

Its never a good idea to us a dyno for simply a number. Thats not what a dyno is for. On the first pull your car made somthing in the low 200whp range.

The reason I didnt use your logger is because the "timing curve" is non-adjustable. If it is detonating at that boost pressure and that AFR, there is another problem. This is the reason I hate knock sensors; and the reason I don't us one in my car and the race car.

Flame-suit on.

Nate
SBR

Honestly, I have no where near the experience that Nate does. I would listen to him and disregard damn near everything I said.

 

[boostyGST]

Nate,

Like I said @ the beginning of this thread, I am not blaming anyone for my low whp, it is just a suprise to alot of your SBR-G50 customers, that a motor with a built head and other supporting modifications could not produce more power. I realize there is no direct way to adjust engine timing directly, however if you look @ my recent log I am getting severe knock @ 5700rpms, what do you think I should do to correct this.

I beleive that jiggahMan's suggestion is a plausable one, which i plan on doing to see if it pulls my timing up. Let me know what you think.

You are correct on the greddy FMIC and stock intake and exhaust mani's, even though they are ported w/ 1G TB, however I do have a 3in o2 with external duimp.

Why do you think it is that my corrections on the SAFC are so drastic (-50) most people say that with 660's-680's there corrections are around -30. Unless somehow they sent me larger injectors then I asked for .........!!

Just let me know what you think I should do.

First off, these numbers are right in line with other cars with the same setups on our dyno. You also have a restrictive stock O2 housing, Greddy FMIC, stock intake manifold etc.

Secondly, this is a 2g with ONLY an AFC. That means no timing adjustment. No Super ITC, no DSMlink, no power switch CAS. With a setup like this one has to tune for a target AFR and hope the ECU does a good job with the timing.

Its never a good idea to us a dyno for simply a number. Thats not what a dyno is for. On the first pull your car made somthing in the low 200whp range.

The reason I didnt use your logger is because the "timing curve" is non-adjustable. If it is detonating at that boost pressure and that AFR, there is another problem. This is the reason I hate knock sensors; and the reason I don't us one in my car and the race car.

Flame-suit on.

Nate
SBR

 

[GVR4592]

First off, these numbers are right in line with other cars with the same setups on our dyno. You also have a restrictive stock O2 housing, Greddy FMIC, stock intake manifold etc.

Secondly, this is a 2g with ONLY an AFC. That means no timing adjustment. No Super ITC, no DSMlink, no power switch CAS. With a setup like this one has to tune for a target AFR and hope the ECU does a good job with the timing.

Its never a good idea to us a dyno for simply a number. Thats not what a dyno is for. On the first pull your car made somthing in the low 200whp range.

The reason I didnt use your logger is because the "timing curve" is non-adjustable. If it is detonating at that boost pressure and that AFR, there is another problem. This is the reason I hate knock sensors; and the reason I don't us one in my car and the race car.

Flame-suit on.

Nate
SBR

Glad you put your flame suit on. Here are some facts for you.
More fuel is required in the torque peak than anywhere else in the powerband.
You tuned this car to it's leanest point under boost at the beginning of the torque peak (13:1 a/f at 4000 rpms)
Using pump gas at those boost levels with 13:1 a/f will cause detonation.
According to the datalogs there is detonation.

The reason I didnt use your logger is because the "timing curve" is non-adjustable. If it is detonating at that boost pressure and that AFR, there is another problem. This is the reason I hate knock sensors; and the reason I don't us one in my car and the race car.

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Boost is 21 psi and a/f where the engine is making the most torque is between 12.5:1 to 13:1. Where did you come up with the idea that those are safe a/f ratio's on pump gas? Not using a datalogger to tune this car is irresponsible. The only problem I see with the car is person that tuned it.

 

[GVR4592]

BoostyGST, I suggest you post the results of your datalog and safc corrections in the tuning section and see what kind of responses you get.

 

[Slowboy]

Glad you put your flame suit on. Here are some facts for you.
More fuel is required in the torque peak than anywhere else in the powerband.
You tuned this car to it's leanest point under boost at the beginning of the torque peak (13:1 a/f at 4000 rpms)
Using pump gas at those boost levels with 13:1 a/f will cause detonation.
According to the datalogs there is detonation.



That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Boost is 21 psi and a/f where the engine is making the most torque is between 12.5:1 to 13:1. Where did you come up with the idea that those are safe a/f ratio's on pump gas? Not using a datalogger to tune this car is irresponsible. The only problem I see with the car is person that tuned it.

Oh no, someone else laying down some "facts" look out... this should get interesting. I would like to know where you get your "facts". Have you tuned a few hundred cars on the dyno? If the answer is no, you should really watch how you use the word "fact". A fact is "2+2=4" ... an opinion is "The only problem I see with the car is person that tuned it" so please make a note.

Maybe you have some type of fancy degree that you know all the facts?

I know, I know.... you teach EFI classes at night at your local Wyotech....

No, no.... you watch Horsepower TV!

See, these are my opinions of you, but not "facts".

You contradicted yourself in your statement twice.

More fuel is required in the torque peak than anywhere else in the powerband.
You tuned this car to it's leanest point under boost at the beginning of the torque peak (13:1 a/f at 4000 rpms)

You made a statement blasting Nate about tq peak, then assulted him on what the a/f's were at the start of the tq curve. Two totally different animals.

First your worried about TQ peak, where a/f's were 11.6-11.8:1. IMO and all the cars I have helped with on the dyno, a well tuned DSM is between 11.5-12.0:1 at Tq peak.

If you look at the a/f graph, you will see at 4k it is 13:1, at 2-3 PSI.... this is most likely not a really big issue. This is where Nate started to add fuel, which is exactly what he should be doing. At peak TQ, the a/f's were in the 11.8:1 range. IMO, perfect for this cars set up.

Now mind you, Nate is using the awesome SAFC to tune this car. How many RPM points are we working with here? For what Nate had to work with, this car was tuned well, and ran great. Just because someone was not happy with a peak WHP #, means nothing to me. People who are just concerned with peak WHP #'s should let us know up front they want a dyno queen map, and we will tune it accordingly. If there car blows up on my dyno, I will hand them a bucket and a mop however

You think you can do it better?

Our door here is always open M-F 9-8, and Saturday 12-4.

Come show us how its done!

Mike Huml

 

[nanokpsi]

Yea thats what I'd expect from a 50 trim at that boost level. There is definitly something wrong if you're only making just over 300.

Not true at all. My buddies car made just over 300 on a scm50 on pump gas. Granted it was in the 90s when he dynoed, but that is what we got out of it using DSmlink. It's just a stock 2g with typical bolt ons and 272s. To get to the 400+whp level on pump on a stock displacement 2g you need a SMIM. You could probably get close with a 1g head/ and intake as well, but you certainly don see many with 2g harware making 400whp on pump, especially with a bolt on hotside.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Nate is using the awesome SAFC
Mike Huml

weren't you guys bragging about how you guys made over 500 whp/400ftlbs with an "oldschool SAFC"

 

[Slowboy]

weren't you guys bragging about how you guys made over 500 whp/400ftlbs with an "oldschool SAFC"

Old school AFC, MAFT, 3" GM MAF, GT35R, built 2.3L motor, Magnus intake, VP120,yada yada yada made 635 WHP. Yes.

Big difference is set ups, don't you think?

Do not speak of apples and oranges together please, it does not make you look any smarter.

MGH

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Old school AFC, MAFT, 3" GM MAF, GT35R, built 2.3L motor, Magnus intake, VP120,yada yada yada made 635 WHP. Yes.

Big difference is set ups, don't you think?

Do not speak of apples and oranges together please, it does not make you look any smarter.

MGH

OBVIOUSLY it was a different setup. but the point is you STILL were tuning with an AFC (and yes, among other devices).

oh, and thanks for knocking one of your "loyal" customers. don't believe me? take a look at my profile, but I don't know how long that will stay on there

Let's not further this discussion and ruin this thread. PM me a response if need be

 

[GVR4592]

So you deny the fact that the car has major detonation problems after you tuned it, and the detonation starts right where the a/f is 13:1? I haven't tuned a few hundred cars on the dyno but I have tuned some of the fastest cars in my area on the dyno, but experience has nothing to do with this. The fact is you tuned the car and it has detonation problems. You didnt use a logger and you obviously should have.

 

[GVR4592]

You made a statement blasting Nate about tq peak, then assulted him on what the a/f's were at the start of the tq curve. Two totally different animals.

They are differnet, but they are related. More fuel is required in the torque peak. I don't believe that g50 turbo is only making 2 psi at 4k rpm's.

If you look at the a/f graph, you will see at 4k it is 13:1, at 2-3 PSI.... this is most likely not a really big issue. This is where Nate started to add fuel, which is exactly what he should be doing. At peak TQ, the a/f's were in the 11.8:1 range. IMO, perfect for this cars set up.

That is BS look at the safc numbers boostygst posted.

Originally Posted by boostyGST
current, unchanged SAFC II adjustments from SBR with 255hp pump, FPR set @ 41psi @ idle, 680cc inj

1000 -20

2000 -20

3000 -24

3600 -20

4000 -30

4600 -43

5000 -50

6000 -50

6200 -50

6400 -50

7000 -50

7200 -50


4k rpms is exactly where nate started taking away fuel. The numbers dont lie. The datalogger doesn't lie. His timing is being pulled back to 7 degrees and you guys don't see that as a problem?

rpms 02v time

2932 .98 24

3180 .96 24

3444 .96 21

3756 .98 18

4080 1.00 14

4452 1.00 13

4888 .96 14

5324 .94 11

5772 .94 7

6160 .94 11

6540 .94 12

6868 .94 13

7148 .94 13

7396 .94 14

Here's a little tuning 101 for you. The timing curve is supposed to ADVANCE, and you would have seen that it doesn't if you would have pulled your head out of your ass and used a datalogger.

 

[definitiveno]

Oh no, someone else laying down some "facts" look out... this should get interesting. I would like to know where you get your "facts". Have you tuned a few hundred cars on the dyno? If the answer is no, you should really watch how you use the word "fact". A fact is "2+2=4" ... an opinion is "The only problem I see with the car is person that tuned it" so please make a note.

Maybe you have some type of fancy degree that you know all the facts?

I know, I know.... you teach EFI classes at night at your local Wyotech....

No, no.... you watch Horsepower TV!

See, these are my opinions of you, but not "facts".

You contradicted yourself in your statement twice.



You made a statement blasting Nate about tq peak, then assulted him on what the a/f's were at the start of the tq curve. Two totally different animals.

First your worried about TQ peak, where a/f's were 11.6-11.8:1. IMO and all the cars I have helped with on the dyno, a well tuned DSM is between 11.5-12.0:1 at Tq peak.

If you look at the a/f graph, you will see at 4k it is 13:1, at 2-3 PSI.... this is most likely not a really big issue. This is where Nate started to add fuel, which is exactly what he should be doing. At peak TQ, the a/f's were in the 11.8:1 range. IMO, perfect for this cars set up.

Now mind you, Nate is using the awesome SAFC to tune this car. How many RPM points are we working with here? For what Nate had to work with, this car was tuned well, and ran great. Just because someone was not happy with a peak WHP #, means nothing to me. People who are just concerned with peak WHP #'s should let us know up front they want a dyno queen map, and we will tune it accordingly. If there car blows up on my dyno, I will hand them a bucket and a mop however

You think you can do it better?

Our door here is always open M-F 9-8, and Saturday 12-4.

Come show us how its done!

Mike Huml

and some one told me you were a grown up

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[red91gst]

They are differnet, but they are related. More fuel is required in the torque peak. I don't believe that g50 turbo is only making 2 psi at 4k rpm's.



That is BS look at the safc numbers boostygst posted.

Originally Posted by boostyGST
current, unchanged SAFC II adjustments from SBR with 255hp pump, FPR set @ 41psi @ idle, 680cc inj

1000 -20

2000 -20

3000 -24

3600 -20

4000 -30

4600 -43

5000 -50

6000 -50

6200 -50

6400 -50

7000 -50

7200 -50


4k rpms is exactly where nate started taking away fuel. The numbers dont lie. The datalogger doesn't lie. His timing is being pulled back to 7 degrees and you guys don't see that as a problem?

rpms 02v time

2932 .98 24

3180 .96 24

3444 .96 21

3756 .98 18

4080 1.00 14

4452 1.00 13

4888 .96 14

5324 .94 11

5772 .94 7

6160 .94 11

6540 .94 12

6868 .94 13

7148 .94 13

7396 .94 14

Here's a little tuning 101 for you. The timing curve is supposed to ADVANCE, and you would have seen that it doesn't if you would have pulled your head out of your ass and used a datalogger.

This is a log done AFTER we dynoed the car, a week or 2 later. Who knows what has happened inbetween these two points.

Next, if the car was infact running only 7 degrees of timing in the said load point, there would be a HUGE drop in torque and power at that point.

A stick to my first pointm dataloggers are horrible ways to tune unless you have the equipment to change the values you are datalogging.

This was not an install job, but just a tuning appointment. We didnt build the car, I simply tuned it. There can be many other factors other than the AFC settings that effect everything your talking about.

I have also tuned quite a few fast local dsms, and MANY fast subbies and evos.

You keep referencing the percentage on the afc. You have to remember this is not a injector time value, but a correction to the factory map. Just because one point has a lower number than the other, does not mean it is leaner.

If you want to get into more detail, just call me, and stop flexing your uneducated internet muscles.

Also, where did you learn your tuning 101 and who taught you? I don't agree.

Good luck with your local tuning, remember, less than 10 counts of knock and shoot for .90 on that narrowband ;-).

Nate
SBR

 

[blcknspo0ln]

shoot for .90 on that narrowband ;-).

Nate
SBR

you're referencing only to 1g's I suppose? Cause I always shoot for .92-.94 on mine.. and she seems happy with it

 

[boostyGST]

you guys are more then welcome to continue this bash fest on here, however let it be known that my intentions were not to start this, I was concerned for the max HP that can be developed out of the SBR-G50

Anyway there are new logs on my post over in the tuning sections, please check them out and correct them where you think neccessary.

Tyler

 

[red91gst]

you're referencing only to 1g's I suppose? Cause I always shoot for .92-.94 on mine.. and she seems happy with it

, I was actually being sarcastic. That seems ok however, but as I said before, 1v narrowband sensor are meaningless compared to a 5v wideband. I've seen anywhere from .78v to 1.02v on well tuned cars.

Nate
SBR

 

[GVR4592]

I thought you didnt use a datalogger.

 

[boostyGST]

well he did not GVR, do you think from my most recent log I am good to go GVR or anyone else that gives a @$#%.....

 

[JiggahMan]

I thought you didnt use a datalogger.

Now you're just being an @ss. Just because he didn't use it on one car doesn't mean he hasn't seen or used one before.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

enough chit-chat dammit.. find out what's up with your car and go redyno!!!

 

[GVR4592]

So I make one sarcastic remark and I'm an ass? Why don't you take a look at ALL of SBR's posts and call them an ass for ever sarcastic remark they made. Or you can just not post unless you have something that contributes to the thread.