What are the odds of....

[ytwithsi]

i am an SI owner, and yes your cars do pull alot harder. you guys were blessed with the word us honda owners wish for, Torque. i dont know how many of you guys have tried this or not but what about raising you rev limiter? i mean thats where honda gets all of its power. one of the best motor combos we have is a non vtec block for the torque and vtec head for the revabililty. but the whole power to wieght thing is correct, i have 20 more hp in a lighter car to start with. also the SI gearing is different than a normal civic, we have very tall gears and all five are speed gears, we dont have an overdriven fifth gear.

 

[ytwithsi]

i am an SI owner, and yes your cars do pull alot harder. you guys were blessed with the word us honda owners wish for, Torque. i dont know how many of you guys have tried this or not but what about raising you rev limiter? i mean thats where honda gets all of its power. one of the best motor combos we have is a non vtec block for the torque and vtec head for the revabililty. but the whole power to wieght thing is correct, i have 20 more hp in a lighter car to start with. also the SI gearing is different than a normal civic, we have very tall gears and all five are speed gears, we dont have an overdriven fifth gear.

 

[xhypno]

yup, that is why you see alot of b16a heads on older d16 blocks or b16b or c blocks

 

[ytwithsi]

not trying to be a punk or anything but you cant swap motor families like that. b series are interchangable with b series, h's with h's, the only thing they have even attempted is putting the f series head off of a s2000 on to the new k series engines(rsx, new si). just out of curiousity, what car sports a c series engine? there is the b, z, d, k, f and h.

 

[1TuffRS]

Ive taken many SI's old and new, a few stock preludes old and new, lost to one modded prelude (newer one), but only by 2-3 car lengths and I had a buddy in my car which weighs a good 200lbs. Ive also had a run in with a modded 2G integra GSR and we were pretty damn close. I was beating him at first, but then the engine note changed and the thing came surging forward and pulled even with me, it went on and on like that till we called it quits in third with me pulling ahead. So it really isnt too difficult to hang with those cars at all. My mods are CAI, 2.5" cat back exhaust, UDP and jeep TB (which wasnt on in any of these races, but makes a large difference)

As far as us changing our rev limiter it isnt too easy. The 2G NT cars did not have an ECU available to us until recently (besides the DFI which is a standalone fuel computer that costs a pretty penny). AFX now makes an ECU for our cars that advances our timing, which is completely controled by the ECU and we cannot change ourselves like you can with hondas, and raises the rev limiter to 8200rpm. In order to rev the car that high though you will need to atleast upgrade your valvetrain. And the guy with the SI is right you cant put a B16 head on to a D16 engine. Before I got this car, I was looking into hondas and learned a lot about them. With all that said be aware of some of these hondas. I raced an early 90's DX hatchback which looked completely stock externally. I did notice that he had a license plate that said Double2 to make a long story short he ran a 14.7 to my 15.7 it kinda sucked

 

[ytwithsi]

when you ran that 15.7 was that with the mods that are in your post. 15.7 is stock for a SI so i dont see how you take them all the time. and gsr's are like a tenth maybe 2 tenths faster. they only have 10 more hp and wiegh a few hundred pounds more. preludes are not that fast, a stock prelude only runs 15.5 to 15.3 quarters. thats funny that you were pulling away in third gear, typically that is the strongest gear for b series motors. how much hp are you running in your car?

 

[1TuffRS]

Ive got a question for you. 15.7 is stock for an SI with who driving?? How good is the average driver at repeating what can be found in car and driver and the like?? Ive seen multiple SI's running 16's at the track, even the brand new ones. As far as how much power im making I dont have a clue, but I do know that my quarter mile time could be atleast 2/10ths faster if I had better tires and I could get my 60' times down. Like I said though when racing the GSR we were basically even the entire way, I only gained when he had to shift, which happened to be much earlier than when I did, so while I was at ~6000rpm in third, I heard him shifting in to fourth, and thats when I started to pull again and we shut it down. That being said since when are all cars the same, some happen to be freakishly faster than others from the factory where others are just slower. Then you also have to consider that the GSR ahd to have an engine that was around 8-10 yrs old and I am in a car with a basically brand new block. When I beat one the preludes, it was on an 8th mile track and it had to have been an auto because I took him out of the hole and by the time he started catching up it was over. I find myself beating cars that people online say I cant take all the time

 

[ytwithsi]

i personally have ran a 15.8 at the track in my town, i started off running 16.1 and you are right, 15.7 with who driving. the are crappy drivers obviously the one you were racing in the gsr. was he even racing? i mean there is no way a person racing a gsr would be in fourth before you unless he was just whipping you a$$. your car is what a 6500 or maybe 7000 redline right. a gsr has a redline of 7800. and just to keep things straight they didnt make a gsr 10 years ago, the first one produced was a 1993. let us know when you race an auto because it does make a huge difference, and even if the prelude was a stick you probably still could have taken him off the line. lets not get all pissed off its just that a couple things in your post are kind of hard to believe. and the new SI's are $hitty, the claimed I-VTEC isnt what its cracked up to be, i waste new SI's without a problem. they dont have the same kind of vtec as the b series. our cars get locked into a big cam, where as the I-VTEC has a constantly changing intake cam. thats why the new SI and the rsx type s arent quite the rave of imports, they are too hard to tune. with the b series motor you could tune for down and no gains up top or gains up top and maybe lose some down low, but the new k series motor doesnt allow you to do that with the constantly changing cam timing

 

[1TuffRS]

our redline is at 7000rpm and he was definitely racing, I know because he wasnt stock and the exhaust was wailing plus we went up to about 8Xmph in a 45mph zone. He also had to slam on the brakes in order to keep from slamming into the back of the cars in front of him. Im not getting pissy at all, there is no reason for me too. Also just because his car has a higher redline doesn not mean that he cannot reach redline before my car. Both the power that the car has and its gear ratios determine how quickly a car will move towards it redline. For example with my car third gear in my car tops out around 92-95mph is yours the same?? This IS just the internet and I take everything said to me here with a grain of salt. I wasnt too sure on when the first GSR's where produced but I did know that it was a 2G GSR, I never stopped and talked to the guy so I was guessing on that cars actual age.

oh yeah and did you run that time stock or modded?

 

[ytwithsi]

there is no such thing as second generation gsr, the gsr didnt start until the new body style of the integra. anyway, i ran that time stock. and you are right some cars are faster then the same one from the factory, luck of the draw i guess, there have been SI's run as low as a 15.3 stock. that with taking the tire out and all that stuff. my car shifts to 4th at 90, so two miles per hour difference isnt going to be enough to be noticable while racing. and why do you keep saying this is the just the internet? i mean this is the only way we can even talk to each other about cars. if you want to take things with a grain of salt then the shifting thing is really messin with me, i mean a 7000 redline isnt that big of a range, i mean the ex shifts at 7000. your car doesnt rev that fast, your car is a torqy car, cars with torque dont rev fast. i dont understand how your car that doesnt have much done to it according to your post is out revving a gsr?

 

[1TuffRS]

First off all, im saying that this is just the internet because I could give 2 $hits whether or not someone believes what I say, so Im not getting pissed as you stated. Just to let you know there is a 2G GSR, it came with a 1.7L Vtec engine called the B17 which was made in both 1992 and 1993, hell F-Max even sells a turbo kit for the car. The normal (non-vtec) integras of those years came with the non-vtec B18 which is the same engine that came in the 3rd Gen Integra (excluding GSRs, which have the v-tec version of the same engine).

As far as the shifting I dont know why it is bothering you. Do you own grand turismo?? If so buy a car and equip it with the racing tranny. Drive it with the stock gearing and see where each gear tops out at, and then change the final drive ratio and see what happens. Hell, do it with a couple of cars, then maybe you will see where Im coming from. Ive got more to say but i need to go

 

[teddyrux]

Getting back to the original thread, mitsubishi did have a type of vtec in some of their engines in japan. It was called MIVEC and it was a four cylinder engine that would run on two cylinders under part throttle and under a certain mph.
Now this isn't an exciting thing for an engine do do, but it got great gas milage! .
As for a performance oriented vtec system which uses larger lobes, I have read that HKS is busy duplicating a system for us DSMers - in all likelihood though, this system will be for a 4G63 .
I actually got this information from a past Sport Comact Car which had a little blurb about this "DSMTEC" (my rendition, sorry it's a little cheesy) and i believe it was at some sort of tokyo auto show.
I have checked their website, but haven't seen any more info on it - might be something to be excited about, but chances are probably not.
Anyone who has more info please feel free to elaborate, or give your opinions.
I'm also going to post this as a new thread, being this question/info is a little hidden.

Peace, Teddy

 

[1TuffRS]

Originally posted by D'seclipse
What are the odds of a NT taking a vtec? With mods, obviously. Thats pretty much one of my goals to be able to smoke those damn Hondas and their vtec's. Also, how do those dumb Focus's match up with our NT's with their Zetec?

, thats not getting back to the original thread. He wanted to know if he could take a vtec equipped honda.

 

[teddyrux]

, my bad, duh, but a useful piece of info anyway, huh?

Peace, Teddy?

 

[HondaHunter2002]

ah who cares 1tuffRS.. u don't have to prove yourself to a guy who drives a 2000 honDUHHHHHH.. i believe you
LONG LIVE DSM

 

[1TuffRS]

Originally posted by HondaHunter2002
ah who cares 1tuffRS.. u don't have to prove yourself to a guy who drives a 2000 honDUHHHHHH.. i believe you
LONG LIVE DSM

haha, thanks man!

 

[9D9 MITSU RS]

Si's are do-able. I have pulled 5 speed 4 door GSR's thru 1st and some of 2nd with my auto RS with minimal bolt ons. If you have cams, gears, stratus drive gears(auto), udp, odp's, etc you could probably take GSR's all day. I would say bolt ons could get us to GSR level or more. I would get every possible bolt on and then nitrous if you wanted to go with a budget and make reasonable street power. I think turbo is the pretty much unanimous vote for a power-adder tho. Some good 5 speed drivers with mods could beat GSR's.

And Toney's right, gear ratios can make a higher revving car rev faster than a lower revving car with a wider ratio. Also, lightened tranny parts, flywheel, etc can play into that.

And for the record, I have taken Si's in my auto. Not to be an ass, but don't go underestimating our cars on a dsm board. if you think dsm's are so much slower, stay on the honda boards, or prove that you are faster.

 

[xhypno]

There are heads for a dsm 4g63 motor that works on the same principal as vtec, it is a Variable Valve Geometry head from porco engneering here in miami. I had a set on my nt engine, that I turboed, and I now have them on my wall in my room as a reminder of what happens when your oil pump fails at 18psi of boost. (the engine threw 2 pistons, they impacted the heads and that was that). They were 1900 dollars and a core was required. They made a big improvement on the top end. They cam with a piggy back computer that controled the valve geometry. They gave me a hugh increase on the bottom end. Which turned into about 1sec off of my eta. I went from a 12.8@ 112mph to a 12.0@119mph. So they were worth it, but too expensive. The other pluses about them is that they came wit 1mm oversized valves, titanium retainers (stock springs), and a full p&p and 5 angle valve job. With these on the car, before I blew the engine, I was able to hit an 11.3@138mph. I never had the car dynoed with them on.

 

[ytwithsi]

first of all im not underestimating your cars, eclipses are a fast car and can be very fast, i mean i have seen a couple of street legal 12 second eclipses, and around here i have only seen 1 12 second SI and that was with nitrous. Im just curious what kind of bolt ons you have to be beating SI in an auto? im not claiming to be king of the streets i was just giving some insight on hondas since that is what this post was originally about right, taking hondas. but when you have people like xhypno tellin his own board a bunch of wrong information it gets a little frustrating. and yes i know that if someone rips open thier tranny and puts taller gears in there it will rev faster. This question is for xhypno, do you have the only v4 ever put in a dsm or what? i mean you had a set of heads? if your oil pump failed wouldnt that melt the pistons, not throw them? ive heard of throwing valves but never pistons. and last do you have any timeslips proving your time with your "heads"?

 

[xhypno]

I have the timeslips but no scanner to put them online. I am going to scan them at school, so I can put them up for you. I know how you feel, I have felt the same from time to time.

What I meant by throw a piston was that when I was at Moroso in Fort Lauderdale, FL. During a run the oil pump went, 2 rods broke on the up stroke (because of a detenation due to the increased heat in the engine, my egt shot up to 1800 when the pump went), throwing the pistons free and into the base of the heads. They also broke a whole in the side of my block, that is why I now have a new engine and decided to stay All-Motor (everyone respects a NA that can get into the low 13 and high 12's and that is my goal).

I also want to know what mods are on the auto to take an SI. When I had just Intake and Exhuast, I barely took a stock SI by 3 cars.
xhypno

 

[ytwithsi]

well hopefully you get into the 12s, i agree that superchargers and turbos are sweet and the power is incredible but an all motor 12 second car gets the respect of everyone, domestic and import. i dont know how high you guys have raised your redline but if you have ever heard a 9000 redline on any car it sounds awesome. im still waiting for the mods of the auto, if you care to post them for us.

 

[xhypno]

true, I am wait also. Right now I am in the high 14's, and my next mod to go in is 1mm oversized valve (with a new 5 angle valve job to go with it), full porting, titanium double springs, titanium retainers, and Cower 196/198 lift (NA street) cams. I decided against the Porco heads this time (too much money). I pick up the heads that I am having rebuilt like this tomorrow, should be about 2 weeks to get them back from the machine shop, after I get them there.

once they are on, I will have a set of 1g heads for sale that have been p&p with a 5angle valve job on stock valves, springs and retainers, and the nt cams. If anyone wants them, for cheap.

xhypno

 

[ytwithsi]

hey 9d9esclipse, i went to your website and you dont seem to mention your mods. why not? i mean if you take SIs in an auto you have to have at least a couple of things done and not just drive gears from a stratus. i looked around and all i could come up with is big a$$ chrome rims and some f&f graphics. maybe i was just looking in the wrong spot.

 

[Jason]

hey xhypno why are you having heads rebuilt at the machine shop? isn't your engine an inline 4? that means 1 head right? i must be confused...unless you have a v6 or v8 in your 94 talon.

 

[xhypno]

It is called heads, because they are the head of all the pistons. Don't ask me who came up with it that way, because I don't know. You have to have the heads rebuilt at a machine shop, this is because the heads have to be resurfaced and machined, then the machine shop p&p's it, and bored out for the 1mm oversized valves and does the valve job. What did you think, you take the heads to a performance shop to get it done. Only some performance shops have the tools to do the work, but 90percent of them, send them off to a machine shop.

xhypno