TimIacobucci
10+ Year Contributor
- 82
- 4
- Jun 21, 2009
-
Orlando,
Florida
Ok, so I'm going to figure out a way to do this. I've got the differential and I have most of the pieces of this puzzle but I am looking for a bit of feedback to see if my theory is sound here.
I've got a wavetrac front diff for the 93+ big axle manual fwd turbo transmission f5m33. I want to put it into a w4a33 auto awd transmission.
I have read a few people saying that the awd front differentials also fit in the autos. John at IPT confirmed this when I talked to him. I also know people have swapped the front diff between the later big spline fwd and early fwd/awd/nt front diff. At least going the other way to be able to use equal length half shafts in a 2g fwd turbo.
The fwd and awd use different bearing and clearance specs though, the tapered roller bearings in the fwd are preloaded, the ball bearing awd require clearance.
To confuse this further the aftermarket lsds use a different bearing than the stock diffs.
from here, http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/351708-quaife-lsd-install-questions-2.html
The H8 being the 25 spline awd/nt/early fwd front diff and the H7 being the 27 spline late fwd turbo.
I will call wavetrac to confirm but does anyone else know if the bearings and speedo gears for a quaife work for the wavetrac?
from here, http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-drivetrain/391409-equal-length-half-shaft-2gs.html
So if this is true, it should work the other way around no? Is there a reason the MD710663 tapered roller bearing for the big 27 spline late fwd turbo quiafe would not work in an awd case? Granted I would need to set the FWD preload spec appropriate for these bearings.
So if I've got the thing setup in the case obviously I need axles now. This would be easy if I was FWD but I'm not. So now I am full on reversing the awd equal length half shaft mod for a 2g.
For the passenger I think the entire axle might just fit, with the exception being there may be differences between the auto and manual axle lengths. Even if that is true I may be able to just swap a 2g 27 spline inner cup and tripod bearing onto my awd auto front passenger axle bar.
from here, http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drivetrain-tech/433390-what-axle-spline-count-97-gst.html
Can anyone else confirm this works? Lowell is the only person I have seen that said they have done this before.
So now on to the real trick intermediate shaft. I can't just run the long 2g fwd 27 axle here because the tcase is there. So theres no nice direct dsm swap I can find for this bit BUT this 27 spline front diff was also used in the FWD 3S cars.
from here, Quaife Front Diff DSM / 3S FWD – Jacks Transmissions LLC
It doesn't say that in the description for the wavetrac specifically but if the quaife interchanges I would think any aftermarket or stock type diff would as well. This means they have the same axle splines. It also just so happens the FWD 3s cars also use the awd style equal length half shafts AND the big 27 spline axles.
from here, 93 94 95 96 Stealth Left Driver Side Axle Shaft Front FWD SOHC Automatic Jack | eBay
Now until I actually get one of those in my hands and start pulling things apart and comparing lengths I don't know if there is exactly going to be a bolt together solution for this but it seems like all the parts are there to make something work.
I figure at the very least I can use the awd auto front driver axle and intermediate bearing and use the length and cv side splines combined with the 3s 27 spline on the other end to have a custom axle made for the intermediate shaft. The 3s bracket is different and the axle looks shorter. If the 3s wheel hub splines are a match the entire axle might fit though if I fabricate a mount on the back of the block to bolt the 3s bracket to. It doesn't really NEED to be equal length, as long as it clears the transfer case and the cvs don't bind or pull out it could work.
I've got a wavetrac front diff for the 93+ big axle manual fwd turbo transmission f5m33. I want to put it into a w4a33 auto awd transmission.
I have read a few people saying that the awd front differentials also fit in the autos. John at IPT confirmed this when I talked to him. I also know people have swapped the front diff between the later big spline fwd and early fwd/awd/nt front diff. At least going the other way to be able to use equal length half shafts in a 2g fwd turbo.
The fwd and awd use different bearing and clearance specs though, the tapered roller bearings in the fwd are preloaded, the ball bearing awd require clearance.
To confuse this further the aftermarket lsds use a different bearing than the stock diffs.
- twicks69
from here, http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/351708-quaife-lsd-install-questions-2.html
The H8 being the 25 spline awd/nt/early fwd front diff and the H7 being the 27 spline late fwd turbo.
I will call wavetrac to confirm but does anyone else know if the bearings and speedo gears for a quaife work for the wavetrac?
- turboking15
from here, http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-drivetrain/391409-equal-length-half-shaft-2gs.html
So if this is true, it should work the other way around no? Is there a reason the MD710663 tapered roller bearing for the big 27 spline late fwd turbo quiafe would not work in an awd case? Granted I would need to set the FWD preload spec appropriate for these bearings.
So if I've got the thing setup in the case obviously I need axles now. This would be easy if I was FWD but I'm not. So now I am full on reversing the awd equal length half shaft mod for a 2g.
For the passenger I think the entire axle might just fit, with the exception being there may be differences between the auto and manual axle lengths. Even if that is true I may be able to just swap a 2g 27 spline inner cup and tripod bearing onto my awd auto front passenger axle bar.
- lowell
from here, http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drivetrain-tech/433390-what-axle-spline-count-97-gst.html
Can anyone else confirm this works? Lowell is the only person I have seen that said they have done this before.
So now on to the real trick intermediate shaft. I can't just run the long 2g fwd 27 axle here because the tcase is there. So theres no nice direct dsm swap I can find for this bit BUT this 27 spline front diff was also used in the FWD 3S cars.
from here, Quaife Front Diff DSM / 3S FWD – Jacks Transmissions LLC
It doesn't say that in the description for the wavetrac specifically but if the quaife interchanges I would think any aftermarket or stock type diff would as well. This means they have the same axle splines. It also just so happens the FWD 3s cars also use the awd style equal length half shafts AND the big 27 spline axles.
You must be logged in to view this image or video.
You must be logged in to view this image or video.
from here, 93 94 95 96 Stealth Left Driver Side Axle Shaft Front FWD SOHC Automatic Jack | eBay
Now until I actually get one of those in my hands and start pulling things apart and comparing lengths I don't know if there is exactly going to be a bolt together solution for this but it seems like all the parts are there to make something work.
I figure at the very least I can use the awd auto front driver axle and intermediate bearing and use the length and cv side splines combined with the 3s 27 spline on the other end to have a custom axle made for the intermediate shaft. The 3s bracket is different and the axle looks shorter. If the 3s wheel hub splines are a match the entire axle might fit though if I fabricate a mount on the back of the block to bolt the 3s bracket to. It doesn't really NEED to be equal length, as long as it clears the transfer case and the cvs don't bind or pull out it could work.
