Water/meth kit hydrolocked my motor!

[silversgst]

I Have a stage 2 Snow performance water/meth kit. I have been running it for about 6 months with NO issues. The last past 2 months I have been doing an AWD SWAP on my gst. After 2 months of it sitting and with the rear end up on jack stans. I went to start it. and it dosnt wana start, had no compression...wired. So i pulled the intake manifold off and about 1/2QT OF 50/50 MIX OF WATER/METH POURED OUT!! Took the head off and tiped it over and ANOTHER 1/2QT OR WATER/METHONL POURED OUT OF THE INTAKE RUNNERS. Looks like it bent some valves....QUESTION: How in the world did this happend!!!! and How do i make sure this dose not happend again??

 

[donniekak]

Don't run meth. It's a very hackish way to run more boost. Just run a higher octane fuel, like e85.

 

[Sebba]

That's pretty wired.

Obviously the pump is running. I doubt you bent a valve, you most likely bent a rod and destroyed other components.

 

[sidewaystsi]

Either the pump stayed powered or you got unlucky and experienced "syphoning" if i rememeber the correct term, its been some years since i used water/meth.Google "water/meth injection syphoning effect" or somethin like that.
Thats the reason for the solenoids and all the fancy jazz they want you to use with those systems.

 

[silversgst]

The highest octane we have here in AZ safford in fact, is 91. 30 psi on my holset dnt like plan 91 so boost juice is a must. I have the head off. The bottem end looks ok. However the head dont look very healthy. Ill look up on syphoning on google. Never heard of that term.

 

[sidewaystsi]

Jeez im tryin to remember,I thought is was something about the tank being higher than the nozzle that makes it happen.

 

[phunny]

Don't run meth. It's a very hackish way to run more boost. Just run a higher octane fuel, like e85.

... Dumb comment award goes to...

 

[silvreclips]

Ive had this happen before also, something happened with megasquirt and it left the pump on. Bent an eagle rod so bad it hit the side of the block. You shouldnt have any damage to the head but check the rods for sure.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I don't agree with Donnie's assessment, but I can understand the sentiment.

Remember, this is a method developed for use in WW2 fighter planes. Injectors can fail too, FWIW.

I have been using water and water/meth injection for over half a decade now with no issues. Now that there is E85 in my area, only water goes in the tank.

 

[donniekak]

... Dumb comment award goes to...

Dumb comment, at least I build my own cars, and many others. It is hackish.
Think about it. Is any 4g63 manifold designed as a wet manifold? They aren't. They are designed to get an even amount of air in each cylinder, not a partially atomized mixture.
On old carb engines, the manifold was designed to mix the air and fuel, and deliver an even ratio of air and fuel to each cylinder. Not the case with direct port injection manifolds. Just because the wideband reading says 11.5:1 doesn't mean that each cylinder is burning at 11.5:1.

Perfect example.
So you have Meth Injection.. Are your pistons also cracked?? - evolutionm.net

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Dumb comment, at least I build my own cars, and many others. It is hackish.
Think about it. Is any 4g63 manifold designed as a wet manifold? They aren't. They are designed to get an even amount of air in each cylinder, not a partially atomized mixture.
On old carb engines, the manifold was designed to mix the air and fuel, and deliver an even ratio of air and fuel to each cylinder. Not the case with direct port injection manifolds. Just because the wideband reading says 11.5:1 doesn't mean that each cylinder is burning at 11.5:1.

Perfect example.
So you have Meth Injection.. Are your pistons also cracked?? - evolutionm.net

That bit in bold is true even without meth injection. Airflow distribution is not even cylinder to cylinder in stock form. Fluids like to take the path of least resistance and taking a hard right immediately after the throttle into cyl #4 isn't something they like to do. Add the pulsing of valve events and its a bit of a chaotic mess.

If you have worked on a carb or port injected car with individual cylinder EGT and/or UEGOs you can see this.

I build my own as well.. though there's been a bit of help on the fabrication this time around, I still designed everything in the car even if I didn't weld or machine it.

If you inject your water/meth far enough upstream, which where the heat to atomize it is located anyways, you will have a fairly homogeneous mixture.

Again ~5 years on the same set of pistons with water/meth here..

As far as citing Mike @ AWDs screed against WMI.. "consider the source" is all I'll say.

 

[ReggieRay]

Sounds like the lesson here is to not leave your car jacked up in the rear for two months when you've got a meth kit back there and check your piping before startup if you do.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

I almost got myself into the same bind; I was boost leak testing, and I had the ignition on because the solenoid on my dodge modded 1g BOV needed power. Luckilly I noticed that my pipes were being pumped full of water before anything catastrophic happened.

 

[GSLENK]

very strange

Most useless comment award goes to:

Meth when installed improperly (for example, CHEAPLY) can be very risky.

Some people are anal about safety, and they pay the price for peice of mind, (flow sensors, fail safe devices, low level circuitry, dual map tunes for the event of failure, waste-gate interrupt circuitry... and so on). Some people have more complex meth setups than most nice nitrous setups.

Some people will always hate on one power adder or another, whether it be a turbo, super charger, displacement, more cylinders, nitrous, meth, water, crack-cocaine...

All the old lessons still apply.

To answer the OP question, which has already been alluded to and answered indirectly:

1) it was caused by a gravity effect or siphoning (basically the same thing, I use this to keep water off of my pool cover in the cold months). It is still based off of gravity, just like water will pour out of a bucket with a hole in the bottom. In this case the OP's meth tank, has a hole in the bottom, connected to a line that connects to a smaller hole in his ______. this must have allowed the fluid to flow into the engine.

2) I checked out snows stage 2 kit. It is a ripoff. It consists of a tank, some hose, some wire, some fittings, a nice pump, and a pretty box with about $20 max of circuitry in it. it is essentially a variable pulse width modulator.

You were missing a CHECK VALVE, or cut-off SOLENOID to prevent siphoning.

Check out the Devils Own website. They a great wealth of info on there, and although they also offer inflated kits, they offer better designed kits that are still simple. I have had my meth setup installed and full, with my cars ass in the air for a month (swap rear ends, and refresh rear suspension) not one drop leaked.


Where is your nozzle mounted by the way? You did not disclose...

 

[Trickplay24]

Sounds like your check valve is not working. There should be a valve that stops flow when not in use. also if you did install it possibly put in backward or it may have just given out. I agree with gslnk. My buddy installed his without a check valve and wrecked his motor ! Don't agree about not running meth as I run nos and there's nothing better for the motor then adding meth to a nos system IMO

 

[clipto]

.. Anyways back to top with all you chit chatters with big e muscles. I am not a fan of meth because there are so many other sources such as race gas or e85. But what goes along with everything else an improper setup is most likley the issues. As most of these products have been out for years no issues, it's most commonly some fault of install or user error. Best let professional install if you don't know what your doing or make sure you do it right. Time to tear down and rebuilt. Learn from your mistakes if that extra hp for meth worth the risk if something fail again then you will need to make a choice. Anytime you mod a car know that there is a risk of messing something up no matter how small it is.

 

[Boostdriven]

Well said GSLENK

Couple things I wanted to mention as well. My guess its kind of warm in Arizona if you don't have a vent hole in the tank cap I would suggest you drill on out. The built up pressure from heat could have pushed the fluid in to the engine. When I bought my AEM kit the cap had a small hole in it but with rubber gasket/splash shield the hole was almost useless. I drilled the hole out to about 1/8 inch and made sure that the splash shield wasn't blocking the air escape.

Like GSLENK mentioned, it looks like snowperformance kit does not come with a check valve which is pretty much a must in a water/meth system. You can buy one on eBay or from one of the vendors. You can also use a water solenoid and wire it to open when the pump turns on.

I used to run 2 550cc nozzles right before the throttle body and it worked fine for a while. At one point I had to pull the head off the engine to replace the head gasket and when I had everything apart I noticed two things. The #1 piston had the least amount of carbon build up, #2 had a little more, then #3 and #4 had the most. Another thing I noticed was that there was more blue residue in the #1 intake manifold runner and the least in #4. I used to run windshield washer fluid (-20*) mixed with 4 bottles of HEET (yellow bottle) so that's where the blue residue came from. As we all know water is much heavier then air and does not change flow direction as well as air does, so by law of physics you will get a little more water further down in the intake manifold on cylinder #1 then right after the throttle body on cylinder #4. To fix this situation I just bought 2 additional nozzles and put one 315cc nozzle at the top of each runner in the manifold, this way I know that each cylinder is getting the same amount of water mix.

One thing to look out for in this is that the vacuum in the manifold will pull water out of the nozzles and the line so you have to install a water solenoid in the line right before the nozzles. The AEM nozzles have built in check valve in them so that helps somewhat with this problem but a water solenoid is a good insurance. DSMcurse has the same AEM nozzles but he has an additional check valve in the line right before the nozzles and that seems to be working good as well.

 

[silversgst]

The gravity thing is what most likely happend. Im going to call snow performance tomarow and ask a few questions. I thought I read somewere that the check valve is in the pump? Any how I took the head to my machine shop to fix it, hopfully I can fix all this. Iv been looking into a solinoid right after the nozzle to prevent syphoning.
Also the nozzle is right on the intercooler elbow infront of the TB. and the resivor is in the truck.

Sounds like the lesson here is to not leave your car jacked up in the rear for two months when you've got a meth kit back there and check your piping before startup if you do.

LESSON LEARND !!!

 

[Colt4G63 also]

Are you absolutely sure you didn't damage the rods? It seems unheard of for it to damage the head but not the lower end.

 

[silversgst]

Are you absolutely sure you didn't damage the rods? It seems unheard of for it to damage the head but not the lower end.

Well, I think There not damaged. How I checked them was to put 1 and 4 at TDC, both of them aligned with the top of the block and 2 and 3 are also stright with the block at TDC so I ASS.U.ME there ok. Any othere ways to tell if there bent besides pulling a pan?

 

[Lou98GSX]

i have a gallon tank in the back where my cd player used to be and i never fill it to the top because it could put the fluid higher than the nozzle which could cause a siphoning effect.

 

[Arthris]

Ive been running a Snow Performance kit for over 2 years. Its a older proggressive unit. Mine is powered on all the time as its connected straight to the battery. Only way for the pump to activate is if the controller sends power to the pump. It should not power on unless it sees a positive pressure and above the threshold you set. Thats a lot of water to have been pump into the intake. I would double check all ## connections and grounds

 

[silversgst]

Ive been running a Snow Performance kit for over 2 years. Its a older proggressive unit. Mine is powered on all the time as its connected straight to the battery. Only way for the pump to activate is if the controller sends power to the pump. It should not power on unless it sees a positive pressure and above the threshold you set. Thats a lot of water to have been pump into the intake. I would double check all ## connections and grounds

Will do, I cant imagen that the 15 ft line by 1/4 holds 1 qt of fluid so maby the pump did turn on...or it just syphoned alot by cursive gravity. I have it set to come on at 10psi slowly ramping up to full bore by 22 psi

 

[bo0st]

As donnie said don't use meth he knows what he's talking about.

The more things you want to add prepare for more failures. Keep things simple man.

 

[Bmxr152]

When i was running a check valave system that happened to me. I had to suck the water out of the cylinders and flush the oil. It happened twice and never caused any damage at all. Sin e i have went to a solenoid and have not had any problems in over a year. Ive ran water Meth for a total of 7 years and only had an issue 2 times. There is nothing hackish about it. Many other applications use it a stock equipment. Do some reasearch.