Want to leave Honda for DSM.

[91DA]

I want to buy a first-generation DSM (turbo) because I like the potential these cars have. My Integra is too slow for me and I don't want to spend an extra 5 grand to just get a decent 1/4 mile time out of it.

I just have a few questions for you guys, I have searched around a bit and come up with some interesting stuff, but there was just waay too much information for me to search through in the time-frame I'm in right now. So any help would be greatly appreciated

I'm getting mixed messages about the reliability of these cars. I'm assuming as long as I find one that has been well kept-up I shouldn't have a problem, same with Hondas. I can't find any common problems though when I search, I find a BUNCH of things that go wrong. So here are my questions:

- I have been hearing a lot about crank-walk, and I found a thread in which there was a poll on it. Looked like about 70 percent of people didn't even have a problem with it. But I am still going to check for play on the crankshaft, but I'm not sure how to do it?

- What things should I check for with the turbo system? Shaft play? How would I check for that? How about intercooler condition, etc?

- How should the cars feel when I test drive it? (AWD, FWD) Are there any quirks about the cars that I should look out for?

- What kind of milage should I be looking at for a first generation? A lot of the ones around here I have been looking at have about 120k on them. Would that be reasonable if they have kept up on maintanence?

- I'm going to be driving this car daily, and maybe doing a few upgrades but I will not be doing anything TOO serious to it. I'll do the occasional hard driving, but definitely wont be racing it around all the time. Will alot of things be breaking with a near stock car, or should I not be worried too much about that. I'm just scared that after a couple times opening it up something will break (many horror stories on this site, not sure if it's common or not since there's SO many people who are on here).

- What kind of price range should I expect to be paying for a 1G turbo DSM? I checked blue-book on them, but that's not always right. What's a more reasonable price to negotiate for (what have YOU guys paid)?

If you could answer my questions, or point me to a thread that would help me that would be sweet. Thanks for reading.

 

[SurgeGT]

depends on how much work you do yourself and how mechanically inclined you are. oil changes are a start...but i'm talking beyond that. the (89-91 or 92...) had the 6bolt crank...so you dont have to worry about crank walk...some 7bolts (2g later 1g's) walked...but from what i see...less than half...ive had two 2g's that were fine at 140,000. if its gonna walk..it usually does so before 70,000. i'm assuming...since you dont seem to know the general things to look for youre not a full blwon mechanic. check basic things and for peace of mind..take it into a shop to check all the majors after youve chosen one you ilke.

check the typical things you would for any used car (i'm assume time and resources are limited each tim eyou go look at a car) try and get an idea for how the car was driven. the key to reliable dsm's is maintenance. mod'd dsm's usually mean (but not always) the had the snot driven out of them...bad. stock...good. but also, if you do your own work, and youre good, finding a dsm with a few problems can be the best bang for the buck. i just bought a 2g GST from a memeber of this forum. he's been having problems with it (there are threads all over the board documenting it....but i think i just about have it ironed out.) so for a nicely modded GST in otherwise great condition with a bunch of extras i may end up selling..im out a total of about 2,500.

when i was looking (this is cali...so prices vary regionally) 2G GST/X's seemed to be advertised for a low 3,500-4,500 and highs of about 6,500-7,500. some were asking 14,000 for highly mod'd ones. asking price and what you actually get are two totally different things tho. sorry...i dont have a price break-down for 1g's since i wasnt looking..

hope this helped...

*had to correct myself

 

[MajouR]

Here we go

Crankwalk is only an issue in 2G's and later 1G's (The number of bolts corresponds to the number of bolts for the crank to the flywheel. Only 7-bolt motors have crankwalk, 89 to early 93 were all 6 bolts, someone correct me if I'm wrong) and it's not enough of a problem to take away from buying a DSM. Just think of it this way, It's going to seem like so many people have crankwalk because people don't talk about when they don't have the problem, just when it occurs. So this makes it seem like it happens more than it does. I have seen people say it occurs in about 5-10% of the 7-bolt cars. Not a reason to not buy a DSM.

As for the turbo, listen for a whining sound. It's going to be noticeable, so don't fight to hear a whine and think its the turbo but it's something else. As for shaft play, Your going to have to pull the intake off and grab the compressor wheel in turbo and try and move it up and down and side to side. The turbo isn't that big of a deal if it goes. It's very simple to change. If you can unbolt the exhaust, odds are you can change the turbo if it does go sometime down the line. Again, not another reason to not buy a DSM.

Things to look out for, I would say just anything that you would look for in a normal car. The tranny are notorious for grinding so thats the first to look out for if your going 5 speed. If there are any grinds, I wouldn't buy the car because other gears are just going to start grinding too (It'll cost $1000-$2000 for a rebuild).
Watch the boost guage and make sure it goes into boost territory. When you test drive one, take note to what you notice thats seems odd and then ask questions again here before you buy it.

120k is fine as long as the owner seems responsible. If you go to test drive and it just doesn't feel like the guy keeps up on the car, don't get it. I have 105k on mine and its fine. Go to my gallery and take a look if you want tog et abn example of what your money will get you.
The GSX in there was $2800 with 176k miles and the tranny started grinding like crazy soon after I got it. The TSI has 105k miles and 3" turboback exhaust and cd player with nice speakers and it cost me $2700. Your going to pay around there for a nice AWD. Keep the mileage around 100-130k. It was stupidity to get the one with 176k miles and I didn't know that until after so just avoid that even if its a really good price.

AWD vs. FWD? If you haven't owned an AWD, you might want to try it out. Just don't dump the clutch, It takes a certain feel to launch. It's really violent when you dump it and it just bogs the car down. The FWD of course has less traction and less weight, only a couple hundred pounds though. The factor of the traction and safety in rain and snow makes the AWD and overall better choice. Pretty much, why wouldn't you want the AWD?(Not looking to get flamed by the FWD dsmer's so please don't do it)


Don't buy one that isn't nice. If you can wait, one will fall into your lap eventually. The 92 TSI I have is beautiful. I just waited til I saw one that was really clean and it wound up being around the block from me.

92 is the best year they say. They have 6-bolt motors with 4 bolt rears(posi and stronger). They are alot more reliable than earlier 1g's. 92+ also dont have the popup lights. Certain people like them though. I had them and I liked them when I had the elipse but once I got my 92, I hated them ever since.

Overall, This isn't a car to buy unless your going to take care of it and keep up with maintenance. As long are you treat it good, it'll treat you good.

Anymore questions, I'll try and help you out.

Sorry if anything is repetitive with SurgeGT. He must posted while I was typing.

Good luck and hopefully welcome to our little world.

 

[kyledykstra]

http://members.shaw.ca/costall/1000Q/answers-makeandmodel.htm#HowmuchshouldIpay


1000AAQ and www.vfaq.com will answer almost any question you have

I paid approx $3000 3 years ago for my '90, it had 124K on it, was driven by and old guy so I knew it wasn't ragged on, but he wasn't the best at maintance (original timing belt ).

I daily drove that car for about 2 years, up to 175K, only things I ever had to do to it was the timing belt/balance shaft belts/waterpump (maintanance), motor now has 185K on the bottom end (swapped it), and is still running great! I also replaced the transmission with one that didn't grind second gear (fairly common in 1G's), when I replaced my clutch.


If you take your time, and find some local DSM'ers, you could probably find a decent 1G for under $1500, there's people in WIDSM who have never paid over $1000 for a 1G, and they've got some decent looking (and running) cars.

 

[igopoopy]

the 1g (89-94) had the 6bolt crank...so you dont have to worry about crank walk...some 7bolts

umm 89-92.5=6 bolt may 92 switched to 7 bolt

 

[MajouR]

Everyone is jumping to help bring someone over form Honda. I love it.

 

[JiveMasterT]

been seeing a lot of honda people switching to dsms.

look these cars are reliable as long as you maintain them. usually when something goes though, a bunch of other stuff breaks to. i just needed new tires, then i found out i needed new front brakes, then i took it all apart and realized i needed new rotors, and on the drive home i realized i need tranny fluid. bye bye $1000. if you cant do work on your own then owning a dsm is going to be outrageously expensive. the dealership quoted me $300 for an o2 sensor change.... its $94 for the part and like $10 for the socket. i also change my own brakes, oil, spark plugs, spark plug wires, rotate my own tires, and when summer comes im going to be putting in my own turbo. i made the mistake of going to mitsu to get my oil changed one time and they slapped me with an $80 bill!

basically if you can do basic stuff to maintain your car then you will be fine and not run into a lot of problems. these cars can be finiky sometimes though... mine doesnt like the cold at all. it only likes blistering heat... gl with the conversion.

and please, dont put on altezzas and a big wing. every person with a civic around here has done that. its so cliche and tacky at this point. just my 2 cents.

 

[FyxxterZC]

It's all because of an article from TPR (Tuner Performance Reports) magazine. They had top 10 cars for under 10,000. Awd dsm was rated as #1, and the turbo fwd dsm was rated at a tied number two with an integra. I came from a honda crx to a gst. The first time you drive it you're going to know what it feels like. Each car is different, dependant on how it's been taken care of. Good luck in finding a clean buy, these cars are getting harder to get ahold of. Atleast ones that haven't been beaten to death.

 

[stay tuned]

honda motor company---- :thumbdown

my brother has a 93 integra...he thinks its the best thing in the world...but he cant even take my stock 97 gst further more wont even give my 93 gsx a try.

 

[91DA]

Right on, those were all pretty much the answers I was looking for, thanks!

I'll be doing all the work myself and I have a good backing in mechanics. I can do any sort of work on a car that doesn't involve a lot of fabrication, but I have been dabbling with welding. On my own car I have put in new shocks and springs, swapped in new brake rotors and calipers, put on exhaust, intake, headers, put in a new radiator, new shifter, etc.

And on other people's cars I have done things like swapping new motors in (wiring too), changing clutches, I'm working on rebuilding a transmission, etc.

As for maintaining it when I buy it, you betchya!

I have also read Max Boost, so I have a pretty good understanding of how turbochargers and the systems involved with them work. I don't have too much experience with AWD though.

Thanks for the help.

 

[IHeartTurbo]

the (89-91) had the 6bolt crank...so you dont have to worry about crank walk

ANY engine can crankwalk.

 

[suicidal2af]

ANY engine can crankwalk.

But you don't have to worry about it with a 6 bolt.

 

[IHeartTurbo]

But you don't have to worry about it with a 6 bolt.

Not as much, but it can and has happened.

 

[IamCool]

I am a honda converted to dsm. It is true about what the car has been through will define what kind of things you will run into. If it has been maintain properly and good then it will have no problem. BUt if it has the shit beaten out of it...it won't last long. That goes for every car. You shouldn't be afriad. Things will break. Even in a honda. AWD system just have more stuff so more things to break. You have to look at it from the perspective of having more things moving will more likely cause something to break than having less things to move. I still get a AWD though. If it breaks it breaks. It will give you a reason to upgrade.Hahahaha

 

[asexton6969]

Just wanted to let you know that i waited forever for a dsm. Finally a beautiful 96 GST fell in my lap. I have $2500 invested in the car so far (including the price i bought it for.) I also have receipts from the previous owner that amount to over $6k worth of work. Then again i got the car becuz it was repoessessed and the guy blew up the motor. $1200 to buy and $1300 to rebuild the engine and other misc items and I couldn't be happier with my car. I got a great deal considering the body is flawless, it has leather interior, moonroof. It is an automatic, but then again i got the car cheap (plus the tranny had been rebuilt) I might plan to swap it to a 5 spd. I also have other big plans for it and i plan to take GREAT care of it. O and welcome to the real tuner's world. Just to let you know, we dsmers take our cars very seriously. If we get beat by someone, we are right back out there the next day with a new mod.

 

[herovueboi]

But you don't have to worry about it with a 6 bolt.

It happens all the time, just look at B16 from the honda boards. They have also been known to crankwalk.

 

[91DA]

Just wanted to let you know that i waited forever for a dsm. Finally a beautiful 96 GST fell in my lap. I have $2500 invested in the car so far (including the price i bought it for.) I also have receipts from the previous owner that amount to over $6k worth of work. Then again i got the car becuz it was repoessessed and the guy blew up the motor. $1200 to buy and $1300 to rebuild the engine and other misc items and I couldn't be happier with my car. I got a great deal considering the body is flawless, it has leather interior, moonroof. It is an automatic, but then again i got the car cheap (plus the tranny had been rebuilt) I might plan to swap it to a 5 spd. I also have other big plans for it and i plan to take GREAT care of it. O and welcome to the real tuner's world. Just to let you know, we dsmers take our cars very seriously. If we get beat by someone, we are right back out there the next day with a new mod.

Ha thanks, cars are my life so I'll definitely be taking everything seriously too.

Don't worry people, I'm not going to put on parts w/o thinking about it. I'm a big believer in research before doing anything, and a bunch of planning. You should see my garage too, parts everywhere and I always have it ready to do some work.

 

[SurgeGT]

had to correct my years...

but yeah, ANY engine can crank walk...with a 6 bolt i wouldn't worry about it...

Any man can get breast cancer....but i wouldn't worry about...

do we really need to nit-pick?

 

[SurgeGT]

It happens all the time, just look at B16 from the honda boards. They have also been known to crankwalk.

i wouldn't say it happens all the time. crank walking is pretty rare if we're talking all engines...

 

[suicidal2af]

91DA: Question for ya...did you put much thought into your name? Cuz after you make the switch, you're gonna have to live with it now

 

[Zero Bar]

You've made the right choice 91DA, switching to a dsm. I picked up my 90 laser for $1500 with 106k on the odometer and in great condition. It was surprisingly well maintained. Good luck with your search.

 

[RLx02]

My Integra is too slow for me and I don't want to spend an extra 5 grand to just get a decent 1/4 mile time out of it.

5 grand to get decent 1/4 times? If you have like an automatic ls/gs/rs then yeah. but if you have a manual then it should be as easy as a) bolt ons onto a gsr b)turboing the ls engine.

i know a guy back in seattle who built his 12 second hatch for about 4k. non turbo.

 

[snailpower]

I say go for it. I sold my 91 hatch w/ a swapped b16a and bought my gsx. I wouldn't bang gears like you can with a Honda, you'll make up for lost time via the turbo It's nice not to have to worry about traction or torque steer anymore. As far as reliability goes...like with any car the more power you make, the more parts you break. There are DSM horror stories just like there are with any other modified car, just take it slow, go easy on the tranny, and the engine should last just as long as a Honda motor will.

PS, welcome ........hopefully

 

[RLx02]

It's nice not to have to worry about traction or torque steer anymore.

...i still have that problem with my dsm gsx>gst

 

[Quasimondo]

- I have been hearing a lot about crank-walk, and I found a thread in which there was a poll on it. Looked like about 70 percent of people didn't even have a problem with it. But I am still going to check for play on the crankshaft, but I'm not sure how to do it?

Some folks say it's overrated, some folks just have bad luck with it. If you pick up a 1g, you're not going to have a problem.

- What things should I check for with the turbo system? Shaft play? How would I check for that? How about intercooler condition, etc?

Pull off the intake accordion hose. Spin the compressor fins. Should spin freely. Give the shaft a slight tug. It shouldn't move. If the owner has a mechanical boost gauge installed, do a 3rd gear pull. You should hit full boost by 3000 rpm's.

- How should the cars feel when I test drive it? (AWD, FWD) Are there any quirks about the cars that I should look out for?

Under 2000 rpm's, dog slow. 2-3000, picks up, 3000-redline, prepare for takeoff. Check for any grinding on the 1-2 shift. Some motors experience a lifter tick problem, which shouldn't affect the engine's performance unless it's loud enough to be picked up by the knock sensor.

- What kind of milage should I be looking at for a first generation? A lot of the ones around here I have been looking at have about 120k on them. Would that be reasonable if they have kept up on maintanence?

Worry less about mileage, worry more about how it was maintained. Case in point: My first DSM, a 92 had 104K miles on it. It was a work of shit that I spent way too much money on. My second DSM, a 90 had 136K on it. The only money I've spent on it was on upgrades and modifications. It's all about how well the previous owner took care of it. Don't get a beater. Don't get a beater. Don't get a beater.

- I'm going to be driving this car daily, and maybe doing a few upgrades but I will not be doing anything TOO serious to it. I'll do the occasional hard driving, but definitely wont be racing it around all the time. Will alot of things be breaking with a near stock car, or should I not be worried too much about that. I'm just scared that after a couple times opening it up something will break (many horror stories on this site, not sure if it's common or not since there's SO many people who are on here).

The more things are left stock, the more reliable it will be. Rule of thumb is the more you modify, the more likely it will break. Luckily, it doesn't take a whole lot of modifying to make these cars fast, so you can stilll reasonably have the best of both worlds.

- What kind of price range should I expect to be paying for a 1G turbo DSM? I checked blue-book on them, but that's not always right. What's a more reasonable price to negotiate for (what have YOU guys paid)?

1G's have started to creep up a bit lately, mainly because unmodified stock examples are geting harder to pick up. I paid $2700 for mine about a year ago. I think around this time now, it would probably go for $700-800 more than it did. People are starting to rediscover the performance potential of these cars so don't be suprised if the asking price of a good DSM is higher than what you expected. Personally, I would go no higher than $4000, and that would be for one clean ass DSM.

If you could answer my questions, or point me to a thread that would help me that would be sweet. Thanks for reading.

www.nwdsm.com (That's the northwest DSM club. They should be able to point you in the right direction of where to find a good DSM)

Good luck on your search.