Video, Possible bad wastegate on brand new MHI Evo3 16G? Boost is uncontrollable. Hlp

[95EclipseGST]

I just got a brand new Evo3 16g installed along with a new 1g complete engine. I went for a drive for the first time and i can barely put my foot on tha gas and drive the car beacuse the boost is totally out of control. YouTube - Uncontrollable boost on "new" MHI Evo 3, 16g Turbo Help
The rpms are really low and this boost just wants to shoot to the moon. This Turbo is brand new ! Help me please, to get this fixed in the next week or so. I pulled on the wastegate rod and i can pull it back, but its not easy to pull it back. Its not binding though and is a smooth pullback. In this video, my boost shot to 20 psi. Did i hurt the engine by doing this? The car seems ok, but i need to know if i "possibly" damaged something and dont know about it yet. What "could" happen with this spiking to 20 psi like this?
What parts need to be removed to even get to removing this wastegate.
What do i do once it is removed? I cannot understadn how im having trouble with a brand new turbo. Could it be "anything" else? BOV? Anything? I really dont want to take this to someone else and have them blow my engine by trying to figure out the problem. Can you please try to answer all the questions asked in here? Thank you, i need help with this bad ! Please

 

[1997_GSX]

You shouldn't have damaged the engine with 20 psi assuming you have supporting mods and your engine didn't knock.

Do you have a boost controller?

 

[JusMX141]

Wastegate's working or it wouldn't have stopped at 20psi.

Unhook the flapper arm from the actuator and see if the problem goes away.

 

[95EclipseGST]

Theres the boost gauge in the video shown boosting to 20 psi at only 3500 rpm of slow acceleration. Im not sure about the statement " wastegates working or it wouldnt have stopped at 20psi" i let off the gas myself right as i saw the boost shooting that high. So what should i expect when disconnecting the flapper arm from the wastegate rod?
No boost at all?
How hard is this flapper arm to remove?
Is this a cotter pin i am looking for and are there bolts to loosen? How does it come off?

Sorry for the newbie questions. I just need some more guidance on how to pull that arm off there. The turbo down there seems so cramped to reach my hands down there and do anything. Do i need to remove some things first? I will try this in the morning and post results. So if disconnecting the flapper arm works, what next? How do i unfreeze a wastegate like that? Its brand new AND MHI, not an ebay one that gets stuck a lot...

 

[Rob10_99]

You could take the radiator fans out, should be plenty of room after that. There's going to be a Cclip thats a pita unless you can feel it on/off.

 

[95EclipseGST]

So remove this C-clip and go for a drive with the rod just hanging there? Should i expect , No boost when this happens?

 

[tsi1991awd]

Having this same problem. It is because my actuator arm isnt oppening fully...already tested it.

What you need to do is find the end of the actuator arm...it is connected to a "pin" and there will be a c-clip/cotter pin under it. Pull the cotter pin out and take a flat head screwdriver and stick it between the flapper arm and the actuator arm and pull it down. The arm should pop right off.

Warm the car up fully and then go for a drive...do a pull all the way to red line in 2nd and 3rd gear...if your boost stays at 0 or goes up maybe 2 or 3psi then the actuator is the problem.

BUT if the boost climbs to like 10psi then you need to port your turbo big time. Let us know.

 

[snakeyes711]

You didn't answer 1997GSX's question. How are you controlling the boost?

 

[95EclipseGST]

I have a joe P MBC, Tee'd off at the top of BOV to the intake manifold and down to the wastegate nipple.

 

[JusMX141]

I have a joe P MBC, Tee'd off at the top of BOV to the intake manifold and down to the wastegate nipple.

Bad idea.


Manual boost controllers do not need vacuum. I have no idea why this line became the "recommended" source for MBC's.

Move the MBC to it's own dedicated line in the lower intercooler pipe or as close to the compressor cover as possible.

 

[snakeyes711]

Ditto, I guess you don't have a nipple on the J pipe or somewhere near there for it?

 

[skatershawn]

I have a joe P MBC, Tee'd off at the top of BOV to the intake manifold and down to the wastegate nipple.

eee... well theres your problem!!
If you have the stock side mount and you got the j-pipe kind of thing from a 1g it would have the little nipple on the piping next to the compressor housing of the turbo... (i think i saw you had upgraded intercooler piping so maybe it didn't come with one on it!) and have one hose going from that nipple to the MBC and the other coming out of the MBC hooked onto the wastegate! simple as spaghetti!!

heres a link that will help you!!

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-turbo-system-intercooler/237982-best-way-install-mbc.html

What you would need to do then is tap a hole near the compressor and screw in a nipple that you can pick up at any hardware store if you cant find anything like it about an auto parts store!
and ofcourse you would want to make sure your tap the threads the same as the screw on nipple!

OR you can get a little nipple welded on!
Your choose!!

good luck man!

AND if you were to take the wastegate aculator arm off it is VERY simple! (not that you need to now that you know what your problem is, but just some info for you)
its a little c clip that pops off and you slide the rod from the wastegate off the flapper arm and BAM!!
Dont even need to take out the fan... can if you please but not needed!
And i did this to break in my motor and i still hit about 2-3psi on my 14b!!

*edit*
if this was helpful please tag as helpful! thanks

good luck and have fun!!

 

[95EclipseGST]

This is "THE" problem of my uncontrollable boost? I had boost like this before Heres a pic of the the MBC was hooked. I dont have a nipple to drill in the j-pipe, and guess i need to start reading on what size threading that would be and what size drill bit. I know you are spotting this as a problem, But you guys agree that this IS THE reason why im getting too much uncontrollable boost? Anyone have a diagram of which vacuum lines etc, on how this thing actually goes then, since i got my method from dsmtuners in the first place. Heres a pic. I just posted about the car not even starting now. I just shut it off last night and now it wont even start. I posted a video there. Its thanksgiving weekend and i have no wheels at the moment

Pic.

 

[toofast82]

Hook up a vacuum line from the jpipe or an intake manifold source straight to the wastegate actuator and see how it acts.
That way it is solely working off of wastegate spring pressure.
Once confirmed there is no issue, then hookup your mbc the right way, without splicing into the bov, and set your desired boost.

 

[95EclipseGST]

OK, I disconnected the MBC and ran a vacuum from the top vac fitting on the intake manifold, straight to the wastegate nipple and went for a drive. The car now boosts to 10 psi, solid. Even at WOT the boost hits 10 psi and stops. No MBC at all. So is my wastegate functioning properly? Should i have got "zero boost" by doing what you just said instead of 10psi? What do i do now? Do i still take the wastegate arm off? Im tryting to understand how i got 10 lbs by hooking it up to a vac line and no boost controller. Awaiting further instructions.

 

[JusMX141]

But you guys agree that this IS THE reason why im getting too much uncontrollable boost?

It's A problem- not sure if it's THE problem or not.

If you think of how far the boost has to travel before it actually reaches the actuator the way you have it set up now, it would absolutely cause a lag in boost control.

 

[toofast82]

What if i simply plugged the wastegate nipple with a plastic cao. WOuldnt that run only off of wastegate? I'll try what you said, but currently my car wont start as in my newest post.

If you don't run vacuum to the wastegate, it will not see pressure. That will cause it NOT to open at all. DO NOT do this.

Just run a vacuum line from wastegate to a vacuum source such as intake manifold or jpipe. Simple as that. Then you will KNOW that the wastegate is properly functioning.

 

[skatershawn]

i do believe i posted a LINK to the thread on how to hook up your MBC correctly!

And im more than sure its a HUGE part of why your car is acting like this!
But the only way to figure this out is to fix it and find out if there is anything else happening!

CLICK THE LINK I POSTED AND IT SHOWS YOU HOW TO HOOK IT UP!

AND YES ITS THE CORRECT WAY TO DO SO!!

And is that tee'ed into your valve cover too...??
man if so you might have a good amount of oil in those little vacuum lines!
(but its looks like its hooked to the mani, :/)

Good luck again!

 

[95EclipseGST]

No, its tee'd into the intake mani. I will do this proper MBC thing when i get access to a drill and find a barbed fitting somewhere.

"toofast82: If you don't run vacuum to the wastegate, it will not see pressure. That will cause it NOT to open at all. DO NOT do this."

^ Then someone explain why i was getting 10 lbs of boost by running vac straight to the wastegate? It opened if i got 10 lbs of boost right? toofast?

My valve cover breather spot does have a hose hooked into the intake pipe. Is this wrong too? Should i just put a breather filter on the end of that?

 

[JusMX141]

Then someone explain why i was getting 10 lbs of boost by running vac straight to the wastegate?

Because you need to adjust your manual boost controller a tad softer? Perhaps the ball inside is sticking too....this has happened before.

 

[big_d]

Because the wastegate is set to open around 10lbs on a 16g.
I agree^^. It sounds like you need to tear apart the boost controller and make sure it is operating correctly as well as inserting a barb in your j-pipe/compressor housing.

 

[ilco187]

i NEVER hook my mbc to the j pipe nipple, the best way to actually make sure you are keeping the correct boost pressure is to tap off the intake manifold, you will want to make sure you are keeping the manifold pressure at what psi you want, not your piping, but do as you do i guess.

 

[big_d]

^^ I think you need to do some more research. All the turbo manufacturers are doing it wrong by tapping their compressor housings as a pressure source for the wastegate?

 

[95EclipseGST]

So if the wastegate is set to open at 10 lbs on a 16g, im just wondering how it opened at 10psi and then held that at WOT at exactly 10 psi the whole time. Im wondering why this Dejon pipe didnt come with a barb fitting I took apart the MBC and can blow into one end, with air seeping out the little weep hole, then turn it around and get air, but slowly closing the valve the air stops flowing, so teh MBC sounds like its doing its job.

 

[ilco187]

You HAVE to use the intake manifold is you want proper boost control. Why is that? The manual boost controller regulates the amount the wastegate is open based on the pressure at its source. Since you want to control manifold pressure, you want the MBC and the WGA to be recieving pressure directly from there.

Using a source off the turbo or intercooler pipe can cause you to have boost that changes with weather, load, and engine speed, and can also slow down boost response. By comparison, a manifold source will be fairly steady, solid, and reliable.


that is quoted from this page - http://www.lilevo.com/mirage/dsmmbc.htm i have always followed by that, and will continue to, it just makes more sense to me.