Varying Clutch Engagement [Merged 1-9] bleeding air floor stuck grinding

[BoostInsideTSi]

Okay, folks, for some unknown reason, we're now getting three threads a week started about clutch malfunctions.
The usual cause is that the system hasn't been properly bled.

Have at it.

I put in a used, but in good condition master cylinder, to replace the one I had before with a broken rubber seal. I did not bleed any components, I simply took out the old one, and bolted the new one up. Then I proceeded to fill the reservoir with dot 3 brake fluid. Bubbles rose to the top of the reservoir, then I topped it off after the fluid ran down into the system. I looked at the clutch pedal and noticed it was still sitting on the floor. I tried pulling it up off the floor, but it only went up a few inches. Probably some adjusting that needs to be done with the rod is causing that. Anyway when I pull it up there is quite a bit of resistance, where when I let go the pedal just pulls right back to the floor. I've heard there is a vacuum going on, where with air in the system, it is just pulling that sucker right back. I tried pumping the crap out of the pedal with a friend opening the bleeder valve and I just shoot clutch fluid everywhere.. I Stop after about 50 pumps and put more fluid and keep going, but notice no improvement. Does anyone know what I need to do? Can anyone verify it is the air in the system causing my problem? Thank you,
Mike

 

[1gentalonfan]

my adjuster was only at about half way when i was bleeding it, i just tried adjusting it. teh vacuum bleeder i tried is the same thing as you were talking about. thanks guys, ill check out that link and try to piss around with this stupid thing some more i guess.

 

[jjgrizz73]

People depend way too much on tools and tricks for simple jobs. You do not need to buy a bleeder to bleed your brakes. Get two people and do it the way I said. If it doesnt fix it then its something else. Everybody is getting so lazy anymore...

Edit: If you bled it properly then its something else. Look at your install of the master make sure everything is kosher. If it worked before it should work again.

 

[90-GST]

master cylinder? could that be causing the problem?

 

[2nd_Gen_GSX]

I would like to start by saying it doesnt happen all the time because sometimes I get in the car and get ready to take of and the pedal is heavy, like it supposed to be. Then sometimes I go to press in the clutch and it goes to the floor with no resistance. What im looking for is some help with the replacement of the master cylinder. Everything has been bled 2x over and its ok for awhile then it goes right back to the same old crap. I have search the forums and came up needing more. Any advice and questions are welcome.

 

[spooling 1g]

Can you see any fuild around your slave? pull the boot off see if any comes out.Feel around the carpet under the master cylinder is it wet?And last but not least a 2g with a pedal problem falling to the floor,check and make sure your crank is still with-in spec.

 

[2nd_Gen_GSX]

Definately lots of fluid around the slave, thats and easy install, and for sure getting replaced. Crank is good and im not at home to check the carpet to see if its damp, but im going to just replace them both. I found a good thread on bleeding them both but i had no luck on the install side of it.

 

[khartley]

How far off the floor is your clutch grabbing?

 

[2nd_Gen_GSX]

well when the pedal goes to the floor, nothing grabs its like the pedal isnt connected to anything there is no resistance at all

 

[spooling 1g]

Definately lots of fluid around the slave, thats and easy install, and for sure getting replaced. Crank is good and im not at home to check the carpet to see if its damp, but im going to just replace them both. I found a good thread on bleeding them both but i had no luck on the install side of it.

Then it's probley the slave replace it first and see if the problem presist.

 

[2nd_Gen_GSX]

WORD, thats what i was thinking but i have a deposit on a dyno for tuesday and i cant afford any clutch issues you know?

 

[MY1GDSM]

Tear it apart and see whats going on with It, still sounds like what I said before to me But as it is now I don't see what it would hurt to. ...

 

[foxyspyder01gt]

I would recommended tearing it apart sounds like throwout bearing or clutch is gone
Here something else u can try have my step dad did this same thing. Have a friend well u set and hold your foot on the break have him try and push the fork and see if can get it to disengage if he can then try to see if u can get it in to gear if u can then it's your slave cylinder that's out. Other wise it's your clutch or throw out bearing.

 

[90-GST]

well it really confuses me. the clutch seems fine when i start the car in first. doesnt slip or anything. but while it is idling, it smells like its burning clutch. i still havent been able to get under the car because i havent had access to a jack or stands. im trying not to tear it apart, but it seems like thats what im going to have to do.

im also weary on it being the master or slave because there is still pressure in the pedal.

 

[90-GST]

so i replaced the slave cylinder and bled the system and it does the exact same thing as before. im thinking im going to have to pay the money to have someone figure out what it is, most likely hear i need a clutch, and end up spending 6-700 getting it fixed. im very happy right now

 

[nuclearr]

Sounds like a clutch to me. But on my old 90 gsx I had the slave and the master go out and it wouldnt go in gear. Dose it make the smell after it heats up or dose it only smell when you have been depressing the clutch? I have seen on a 1.8 clutch the tines wear off due to a bad throwout bearing and lock the clutch so it wount disengage. Your going to need to drop the trans and inspect the throwout bearing and remove and inspect the clutch, make sure to look for broken clutch springs.

 

[SpawnedX]

I have a 1998 GST, bone stock except for a 3 inch catback, 101K miles, last clutch replacement unknown.

The clutch needs to be fully depressed for a few seconds to shift smoothly without any sort of grind, the real problem is reverse. Multiple times I have been sitting at a complete dead stand still, most of the times on a slight incline, and have had the clutch completely compressed, for more than a few seconds and when I go to put it in reverse it just grinds, do this 2 or 3 times and then it shifts like butter. Could this be a slave cylinder issue?

 

[gpsturbo]

Try to blead your slave cylinder, easiest step. If no fix, put it in 1st then reverse each time. If it goes into reverse each time that way, then your clutch is definitely due for a change. When the disc gets worn, it sometimes needs more pressure to engage. You SHOULD change out the RELEASE FORK and throw out bearing. The clutch job is big enough, and you will very much regret not doing it. Forks are about 60 bucks, t/o bearing is usually included. This will make even the upgraded clutch feel perfect.

 

[90-GST]

Sounds like a clutch to me. But on my old 90 gsx I had the slave and the master go out and it wouldnt go in gear. Dose it make the smell after it heats up or dose it only smell when you have been depressing the clutch? I have seen on a 1.8 clutch the tines wear off due to a bad throwout bearing and lock the clutch so it wount disengage. Your going to need to drop the trans and inspect the throwout bearing and remove and inspect the clutch, make sure to look for broken clutch springs.

it seems to smell whenever it warms up actually. im probably going to end up taking it to a local shop because i do not have the resources to tear it apart here. i really dont want to spend the money, but im going to have to, which really sucks.

 

[SpawnedX]

Why did this get moved here?

I didn't once mention varying clutch engagement, because I don't have it.

 

[viprez586]

Good thing your consulting a professional - no offense. But you clearly have clutch drag meaning the clutch is not disengaging. I'd either go with a shop who has a strong reputation for transmission work, or a shop that just deals with transmissions/driveline work.
Just food for thought but the cheaper route isn't always the cheapest in the long run.

G'luck!

 

[illeffekt vr-4]

One or more of the clutch springs fell out. Same thing happened to my 91 gsx. I will post some pics tomorrow.

 

[90-GST]

Good thing your consulting a professional - no offense. But you clearly have clutch drag meaning the clutch is not disengaging. I'd either go with a shop who has a strong reputation for transmission work, or a shop that just deals with transmissions/driveline work.
Just food for thought but the cheaper route isn't always the cheapest in the long run.

G'luck!

thanks. thats what im thinking it is too. i really dont want to have to spend the money on it, but i know im going to have to. i had just saved up enough money to get ecm link too, .

One or more of the clutch springs fell out. Same thing happened to my 91 gsx. I will post some pics tomorrow.

what clutch did you have in it? i've heard of the centerforce clutches breaking like this. a guy on a local forum had it happen with the same clutch and about the same amount of miles on it as well.



on a side note, does anyone know where i can buy just a polyurethane tranny mount? i dont need the others, just the tranny mount. if anyone knows, please let me know. thanks

 

[viprez586]

Call up extreme psi. I'm sure they'd snag one out of the kit for you if you ask nicely.

 

[SpawnedX]

Ok, I admittedly am pretty clueless when it comes to transmissions and clutch systems, not my strong point. I just got a 1998 GST, it has been running pretty good. It had been a little bit of a pain to shift, had to hold the clutch down all the way for 2-3 seconds to get a smooth shift, figured the clutch, throw-out bearing and fork haven't been done in awhile, was going to them soon.

However, yesterday we just had an extremely freezing day (single digit temps) and the weirdest thing happened. In the morning the car was shifting like it had been. Drove to work, parked it for 4.5 hours, came out at lunch to move it down a level, was a little more difficult to get into gear at first, but nothing severe, I figured it was the cold. I noticed on the move that when I depressed the clutch it would come back halfway and than pop back the full way, like it hit some bubblegum or something that slowed the pedal arm down.

Then I left the car there for another 6.5 hours and when I came out, started right up, still had the little sticky feeling to the clutch, but when I tried to put it into first, no matter how hard I applied pressure to the shifter, it would not go, I sat for 10 minutes and finally with a hard push it went into first with very little grind, then as I was driving, I realized second gear was the same problem, and so on.

The warmer the car got the more "driveable" it became, but I had to like step on the clutch and wait 3-4 seconds to get a shift, which was a little rougher than usual. Was like that the entire drive. When I finally got it home, and tried to put it into reverse, would not go at all, just kept grinding, even after getting it into first, and coming back to second. The pop in the clutch pedal seemed to be completely gone.

From reading and asking others I have come up with a laundry list of crap that it could be and have no idea how to tell for sure without spending 100s to replace everything.

I have been told it could be a lazy slave cylinder, combined with bad gear oil, a problematic pressure plate and finally read that similar problems have been a bad master cylinder.

Any advice would be helpful.

 

[sparco431]

hey guys so i was just about to leave my house, so i get in my car push the clutch in and it goes COMPLETELY in really fast as if there was no pressure at all and it stays there, i already know its not crankwalk so dont say that because it was driving perfectly yesterday. i tried to pump it manually a couple more times but it was still the same. so i popped the hood and saw that it was completely out of clutch fluid. so i quickly poured clutch fluid in and then i went back in my car, but it was the same. i waited for a couple minutes turned the car on and tried to pump it a couple times but its still the same. now my question is do i have to wait a certain amount of time till it goes back to normal? or do i have to do anything else? because it had absolutley 0 clutch fluid thanks