(Valves) Rookie mistake! ..Salvageable? Or no..

[Geeb]

Hey guys. I was milling (decking) the mating surface of my 6 block head..

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It's built, and I just put the springs, valves, etc in and didn't realize the back edges of the intake valves protruded a tiny bit out from the chambers, puting them in the path of the work being done.. So on the first pass it took a bit off them.
(All 8 look like the pic below)

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Sucks because I believe theyre GSC nitride valves. I got them in another built head I got and he said he forgets they're either GSC or Ferrea.. But I checked theyre not magnetic like the stock ones are, and not susceptible to rust at all.

As you look around them from front to back though you can see the marks are only on the valve face, they barely make it to the edge... (Below)

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....and not at all where they seat in...(below)

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In that pic (above) the mark is at like 11 o clock on the other side of the valve..

It would be awesome if I could use these not only because I don't feel like buying more but I have (had..) these all seated 100% flush, no leaks at allt.. Keep in mind it's only the faces on the intake valves..

Thanks for your input guys..

 

[lasthope05]

Please don't tell me you are using that block of wood next to the cylinder head with sand paper to "mill" the head....

 

[bastarddsm]

Ehh, It'll be fine. I ran 10's on a head surfaced with 80grit glued to a nice big ceramic floor tile

 

[bastarddsm]

Valves'll probably be fine.

 

[lasthope05]

To clean the face of the cylinder head is fine but to actually try to level the head is not. Especially with a piece of wood that's not flat. Atleast a tile or piece of glass its a little better but you are still not able to apply even pressure to evenly remove material. Get it properly cut at the machine shop and watch all low spots/ taper show up.

 

[chrysler kid]

Lol. Not everything has to be done by a redneck in a machine shop

I wouldnt trust them. Hate to burn one at 32psi. Otherwise if it's a stock rebuild sure it will be fine

 

[Geeb]

It was my first time trying it.. I leveled it got a new square and 9 point measured it, couldn't even slide .0015 under any side of it

Only reason I didn't wanna send it to the machine shop is cause you see that block? Was done at the shop and took them like 2 months to get it back to me... N if it works I'm all for it.

The head was o ringed and milled before, I was just getting out small scratches but it didn't leave it out of whack at all.

 

[Geeb]

And when they did the block they left so much bite in it, like they cut it down with such a heavy grit. Look.

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I know it should have some bite, but is that grit normal for a hone and deck?

And you can still see a slight ring around the outter 2 cylinders. Smh. This might be going back to them. You would think after 2 months it would be perfect.

 

[donniekak]

That doesn't look like it was properly honed. It looks like a piss poor job with a flex hone.

 

[bastarddsm]

Is it still standard bore?

 

[chrysler kid]

And when they did the block they left so much bite in it, like they cut it down with such a heavy grit. Look.

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I know it should have some bite, but is that grit normal for a hone and deck?

And you can still see a slight ring around the outter 2 cylinders. Smh. This might be going back to them. You would think after 2 months it would be perfect.

It looks like shit.

Good machine shops have the problem of getting all the work. They also have the problem of being under staffed and over loaded. Then you get stupid customers who don't know what you'e doing, or what their doing and ruin your work and reputation, and then your shop help starts cutting corners and next thing you know you have your typical machine shop with the owner ending up running the front counter or just doing the race car builds.

What usually ends up happening is the best builder ends up doing his own build, and then starts doing other builds for friends. And the cycle goes on

So you sir, are on your way of doing things

 

[Geeb]

It looks like sh**.

Good machine shops have the problem of getting all the work. They also have the problem of being under staffed and over loaded. Then you get stupid customers who don't know what you'e doing, or what their doing and ruin your work and reputation, and then your shop help starts cutting corners and next thing you know you have your typical machine shop with the owner ending up running the front counter or just doing the race car builds.

What usually ends up happening is the best builder ends up doing his own build, and then starts doing other builds for friends. And the cycle goes on

So you sir, are on your way of doing things

I'm on my way of doing things..? Not sure what you mean

Only reason I accepted it is because he's building a motor for himself with aluminum rods n all he said he's hoping to get 1600hp out of it and his walls looked the same... But it was a big v8 tho

This was the first time I ever got a machine shop to hone anything or deck anything and went with the closest one with the best reviews...

Then I found the paper that came with the carillo pistons I got and they say..

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...and

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I'm guessing he didn't have a honing plate, and if that's a 280 grit finish then I better get my glasses checked.



I'm not here to bash any shops, but Im probably going to take it back.
One of the reasons they got good ratings is because if something wasn't up to the customers standards they always fixed the problem to keep em happy

Its just, like I said, the first one I ever got done and didn't know what i was looking at yet.

Is it still standard bore?

Yeah still standard bore.

 

[chrysler kid]

I'm on my way of doing things..? Not sure what you mean

Only reason I accepted it is because he's building a motor for himself with aluminum rods n all he said he's hoping to get 1600hp out of it and his walls looked the same... But it was a big v8 tho

This was the first time I ever got a machine shop to hone anything or deck anything and went with the closest one with the best reviews...

Then I found the paper that came with the carillo pistons I got and they say..

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...and

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I'm guessing he didn't have a honing plate, and if that's a 280 grit finish then I better get my glasses checked.



I'm not here to bash any shops, but Im probably going to take it back.
One of the reasons they got good ratings is because if something wasn't up to the customers standards they always fixed the problem to keep em happy

Its just, like I said, the first one I ever got done and didn't know what i was looking at yet.



Yeah still standard bore.

Sorry, I ment on your way to being the guy who builds motors for the other guys

Hopefully it doesn't take them two weeks to hone it out. It would be cooler if you could convince them to show you how to work the honing machine yourself though

 

[donniekak]

Sorry, I ment on your way to being the guy who builds motors for the other guys

Hopefully it doesn't take them two weeks to hone it out. It would be cooler if you could convince them to show you how to work the honing machine yourself though

I suspect the honing machine they used for that job was a drill.

 

[chrysler kid]

I suspect the honing machine they used for that job was a drill.

Probably a bench press drill, I would hope atleast.

 

[Geeb]

If they did thats rediculous because they had all the correct equipment right there.

Then again everytime I would call they were busy with something else, sl I'm sure they had other things on there.

But anyway.. Looking at it indoors, I think the flash of my camera/lighting might have made it look worse then it is.
.. Not that it's great I'll take a couple new pics though.

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Those have no camera flash.. (Above)

These have flash..(below)

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The no flash is really what it looks like in person.. I had the block outside with a spotlight on it and it made it look horrible, the camera flash made it worse in my opinion.. I brought the block inside and in here it doesn't look as bad.

I suspect the honing machine they used for that job was a drill.

Here with the block in front of me, It does look like they used a machine to do it, the scratches are totally linear all the way up.. Unless they had a crazy steady hand. Unless it comes out this way by using a drill also.. Like I said I have no prior experience to compare anything to..


Thanks everyone by the way for all your feedback.

 

[donniekak]

Those pictures make it look better, like it was done in a sunnen machine with diamond hones.

 

[bastarddsm]

They probably just touched it up with a real rigid hone. Since it's standard bore and usually the extra clearance needed for a forged piston is built into the piston they didn't want to take much out. The real question now is what is the clearance?

 

[Geeb]

They probably just touched it up with a real rigid hone. Since it's standard bore and usually the extra clearance needed for a forged piston is built into the piston they didn't want to take much out. The real question now is what is the clearance?

You mean piston to wall? I have a dial bore gauge to check n make sure it's not out of round
The specs on my pistons are...

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They fit good not right or anythung but not loose to the point where I'm worried about slap, but that's just guessing I'll be more accurate once I measure

 

[bastarddsm]

So it looks like they were designed to have .0035" clearance in a factory bore, which should be 3.3465 So they will probably be good, but check it for sure. Running it with .0035" clearance will probably ruin it. Needs .0045-5 imho.

 

[Geeb]

They expand that much?

Cp I've heard a few occasions of people having those ribs on the piston head overheating because of how thin they are, so I'm going to coat the tops in a high temp ceramic (techlines powerkote CBX) and the skirts will be coated in a dry film lubricant (dfl-1) but they cost super thin like .0001-.0002 so it shouldn't interfere.

 

[chrysler kid]

Ok so my question, does he still need to take it back to be re honed. It still looks like it would eat piston rings like a nitrous big block would do.

 

[motomattx]

He might want to make sure that they run a finish hone down through it.

 

[Geeb]

Ok so my question, does he still need to take it back to be re honed. It still looks like it would eat piston rings like a nitrous big block would do.

What do you guys think..?

I'm assuming the big block I mentioned earlier that he was building that the cylinder cuts looked similar to woulda been boosted (for sure) and possibly nitroused


I can run my fingernail through it without it getting caught but it does feel a bit rough (obviously)

 

[chrysler kid]

I mean I'm assuming the factory hone for a regular 4g63 block should be the bench mark. High rpms and a rough hatch are good to prevent blow by, but terrible for engine longevity.

A vague reference, all of the street outlaw guys use to run nitrous methanol big blocks. All of them were having to pull the pistons and re ring them after 8 passes. Towards the end their nitrous builds making over 2k hp were needing new piston rings after every race night. Everyone of them now runs a procharger setup or turbo setup.

A strong hatch prevents blow by, but also really can destroy your piston rings. If you told him you were building a balls out drag car he probably build the block with this assumption, where as knowing most of us, we think 800hp is close to breaking the bank, and want that 800hp to last a full season of passes

So I would bring the block back in there and tell him your specific goals, and how long you want the motor to last and ask the machinists opinion.