valve is hitting piston after timming being done

[newTSIguy]

Ok so today i did my timing, a lined the marks up as the book said to, blah blah blah, when i went to turn it over, one valve was hitting the piston, dont know where i went wrong, but obviously i did somewhere along the line, my question is is it possible that i did not bend the valve, can i just re-do the timing and be good, it did not sound super loud, and is there any way to find out if my valves are bent, without pulling the head? thanks for your help in advance

 

[dsm612]

the only way is to set it back to [TDC] and restart . did you do to full rev before you started the car if not when you do it this time do to full rev and check it .there is a good chance if you did not rev the engine you probable did no damage to a thing.

 

[newTSIguy]

i never got it started, but i did give it a few revolutions trying to start it,

 

[talondave]

To check if you bent a valve you could do a compression test. If the compression turns out good you should redo the timing and to make sure that it is in time when your done. put a 1/2 drive ratchet on the crank pulley and turn it clock wise 6 full turns and on the 6th turn it should be in time if so then start it up........good luck

no you need to make sure that it is in time befor you can give it the test.........my bad...im not my self today wasent thinking

if you turn the motor over by hand do you feel the valve hit?

 

[newTSIguy]

can i do a compression test with out turning over the motor some how

 

[xx503boyxx]

Ok pretty much make sure all your timing marks are aligned if there not and off my more then 2 or 3 teeth your pistons and valves mett...re adjust your timing again then do a compreseion test if it comes out good try and start the engine again check that the timing marks didn't move then go from there. other wise check Crank and cam sensors or sorry rip off the head check for damage then start all over again. could also be really loud lifter tick or collapsed lifter

 

[misphit]

Hey, ^^^ have you ever heard of punctuation? It's a useful tool when you want people to understand what you wrote. Reading that sentence just gave me a headache.

NewTSIGuy, how do you know your valve is hitting the piston? Make sure your tensioner didn't take a dump on you because it will produce a very similar sound if it's not holding properly. Check the belt in different places to make sure it's properly tensioned... you will know if it isn't. If this is your first timing job, I recommend you make sure you check everything thrice - cam marks aligned with crank and balance shaft, dowel pins on cam pointing upwards, etc. And as talondave already said, once you're sure you've got it right, you can then check your compression to test for a low reading.

 

[tqmx1]

Did you pull the lower crank gears and if you did the tin plate get reversed on reassembly? When the crankshaft is at TDC the woodruff key in the crank should be facing foward and lined up with the bearing cap split.

 

[newTSIguy]

Talondave, yes when i turn the motor over by hand I can feel it hitting the valve. I know the tensioner is doing its job, the belt is tight all around, i think the plate on the back of the crankshaft sprokit was backwords, I dont know, but I think it was about 180 out. So i guess i just have to re-time it and do a compression test, man this really sucks, i have put alot of money into this car and i have not yet been able to drive it, but at least i have an extra head for it if worse comes to worse. Will my piston most likely be ok? also so does any one have a picture of where my dowel pin on my crankshaft sproket should be, because i think mine was at about seven o clock,, thank you every one for taking the time to help me out on this one, that is why i love this site

 

[BulletShiftTSi]

Double check all the alining marks, once they are correct take a 1/2" rachet and put it on the crank pulley and turn the motor a good few times if you have the plugs and everything in then it will be easy then get harder to turn because of compression then easy again. if your timing is off it should be REALLY REALLY hard to turn the motor like this unless it is barely off.

but the ONLY way to be 100% SURE that you didn't make contact is to take the head off and check.

sorry your having troubles

good luck!

 

[Defiant]

i never got it started, but i did give it a few revolutions trying to start it,

They're bent.

 

[debbie]

Hello my friend it sounds like you have simply lined up the markers and put a belt on and it does not work like that, if I'm not mistaken your crank does two revolutions to the one rev of the cams, therefore if you lined your crank marker up the number one piston should be at top dead centre (TDC). But because the cams do one rev to the cranks two it's possible that when you lined them up the valves have been open instead of closed, so when you have started your engine the pistons have gone up as your valves have come down. You need to get your number one piston at top dead centre (TDC) and the cams positioned so your valves on piston one are closed, (you still need to use the markers) then when your done take out your spark plugs and try manually turning the engine round a few times and feeling for any obstructions.

 

[MetalliHawk]

If I’m not mistaken your cams do two revolutions too one revolution of your crank so just lining up the markers on the crank and cam pulleys aint going to cut it, you need to get your number one piston at top dead centre (TDC) and the cams positioned so your valves on piston one are closed, then when your done take out your spark plugs and try manually turning the engine round a few times and feeling for any obstructions.

Yes, but that's why you line the dowels in the 12 o'clock postion. Doesn't help if the crank mark is off 180 though

They're bent.

Agreed. Good news is the pistons are most likely not harmed beyond use. Be sure to clean up any marks that may be present on the faces to prevent "hot spots" from forming. If you need some cheap quality replacements I recommend searching for "engnbldr" on ebay. Very nice SS valves, used them in 2 of my builds and heard nothing but good things about them.

I can also add that after doing a t-belt when you try to spin the crank by hand it's easier if it's out of gear

 

[newTSIguy]

It was a complete noob, mistake of mine to not turn it over by hand, after the damage was done i was kicking myself in the @$$ for not using that bit of common since, but in my defense before i got into this car, the most i have ever done was change a starter, so you live, make mistakes, and learn from them, Ill put money on it that i never mess up with my timing again. I have a head i can throw on there for now but it has 176k on it and some nice carbon build up on there, but not to bad, would it be worth it to throw that thing on there for now and just take my time and build up the bad head? or just replace the valves on the messed up one that only has about 50k on it?

 

[BulletShiftTSi]

If you don't need the car right away especally since the tracks aren't open just yet (at least where I live) and take your head off and build it the way you want it put it on, do it right and don't worry about it for another 60k or whenever you do your next timing belt. If you can't afford the head you want (like me ) just put the other head on after you do your best to clean it up. then take the head with the bent valves and go crazy put cams, lifters, springs, retainers, valves, port job,hot tanked until your heart is content.

Then when your ready to put your pretty new head on swap them, check your pistons and cylinder walls and replace the timing belt if you have over 20k because that means you get to go that much longer with out doing a timing belt later.

good luck!

 

[newTSIguy]

ya that's what i was thinking but i have a complete cyclone set up with jdm ecu i am going to try to sell first to raise some money for a good replacement head, then i will go super crazy with the one on there now,

 

[MidShipCivic]

Did you pull the lower crank gears and if you did the tin plate get reversed on reassembly? When the crankshaft is at TDC the woodruff key in the crank should be facing foward and lined up with the bearing cap split.

Bingo, if you think you did everything right and yet your rotation is being obstructed, then you probably installed the lower timing belt tin plate behind the crank gear backward.

 

[newTSIguy]

so that would make me 180 out, right?

 

[tqmx1]

No closer to about 125 degrees out.

 

[newTSIguy]

Ok, so today, I reset my timing, did a compression test, and here is what I got ,
90,0,0,0 so I knew I was in trouble. In a matter of a hour and a half I had the head off. My exhaust valves were done for, but I am happy to say the pistons were ok I smoothed out where they hit on the piston, and I am gonna throw my replacement head on soon, hopefully I will be good for now. only cost me a head gasket, i got lucky

 

[tqmx1]

I bet you wont reverse that plate again.

 

[newTSIguy]

It was already reversed, it was a jdm, so who knows who did what to it over in japan, but I will never do timing without checking to see if I am at TDC first, and I will never just try to start the motor without cranking it by hand first again, I guess some things I was just ment to learn the hard way, valuable lesson learned though.

 

[MidShipCivic]

It was already reversed, it was a jdm, so who knows who did what to it over in japan, but I will never do timing without checking to see if I am at TDC first, and I will never just try to start the motor without cranking it by hand first again, I guess some things I was just ment to learn the hard way, valuable lesson learned though.

That doesn't make sense.

You're not doing ''timing'' at all if you not setting it correctly.

Also, what do you mean it was reversed because it's a JDM engine?

 

[newTSIguy]

I did the timing wrong! what doesn't make sense? people make the stupidest mistakes all the time, But as far as the plate being reversed because it is a"JDM" I mean it is a used engine who knows what was done to it before I had it,

 

[MidShipCivic]

You said it yourself, if you weren't setting it at TDC then what were you doing?