Using Copper Pipe for Intercooler Piping??

[JCG-GSX]

I just got done mounting up my custom intercooler to my bumper, and now I have to route the piping. I was planning on having an exhaust shop fabricate it, but my friend who is a plumber said it would be possible to do it with copper piping he has laying around. The idea is feasible, and will save me the couple hundred it would cost for the exhaust shop to do it. Now the question is, has it been done before, and if not, why?

The only thing I can think of is that copper is not as durable as steel, so it might get dinged up easier. Other than that, I can't think of any other reason ( not to say there isn't a good one out there)

If anyone has any input to this, I'd love to hear it.

TIA!

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

well, it has to be at least 2.25 inches, but if he has that, then it would work good and look ####ing awesome. make sure to post pics.

 

[crankbender]

On the cold side of the IC it will transfer heat from the engine bay to the intake charge better. It will hold heat from when at idle and transfer it to the intake charge. yada yada yda etc etc etc heat stuff.


Basically you wrap it with something and you have as good as anything else.


On the plus side you can chill it with ice bags and the track and it will cool your intake charge during the run well.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by crankbender
On the cold side of the IC it will transfer heat from the engine bay to the intake charge better. It will hold heat from when at idle and transfer it to the intake charge. yada yada yda etc etc etc heat stuff.


Basically you wrap it with something and you have as good as anything else.


On the plus side you can chill it with ice bags and the track and it will cool your intake charge during the run well.

Im gonna hafta say that at full throttle heat transfer through IC pipes is a minor factor.

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by JCG-GSX
Now the question is, has it been done before, and if not, why?

The only thing I can think of is that copper is not as durable as steel, so it might get dinged up easier. Other than that, I can't think of any other reason ( not to say there isn't a good one out there)

It's expensive, much more soft, subject to corrosion, and heavy. If I were moving away from steel tubing, I'd go with aluminum. But, I suppose I'd need a front-mount, first.

The heat-transfer aspects are negligible.

 

[dsmturboawd]

i pipe's a pipe really.

i say go for it.

 

[DSMJim]

How do you plan on doing the bends? If you use regular plumbing elbows, that is where your major restriction problems will come in.

 

[Enraged78]

The last time I was at the track, I met a guy with an 89 Supra Turbo that had copper intercooler piping. He did it himself, and did manage to find 2.25" piping somewhere. He said it was really easy to work with, and he had no corrosion problems yet. He'd been running the piping for about six months, and it was painted with engine paint to help keep it from corroding. Jim is correct, though, as the elbows he used for the bends in the system were a fair restriction. The elbows themselves were much larger than the piping, and they were 2.25" internally, but externally, they were about 1/6" larger than the piping itself. They also looked like they were cast, for some reason. I think that polishing the inside of the elbows would probably smooth things out quite a bit. Anyway, if you know how to braze copper, you should be all set for a cheap UICP solution.

Incidentally, he ran a 12.90 with his setup.

Oh, and one other thing from thermodynamic theory. Aluminum likes to dissipate heat. Copper likes to absorb it. This is why you see copper slugs surrounded by aluminum in many modern CPU heatsinks. Aluminum would definately make a better UICP.

Matt.

 

[JCG-GSX]

Thanks for all the replies, this is great information, keep it coming! My friend is the plumber, so I'm going to leave it up to him to figure out the details, but he said that he could make it ~2.25 all the way through. Is copper heavier than steel? The copper tubing is fairly thin-walled (softer hence more likely to be damaged) but I think it is lighter than the steel exhaust pipe that I was going to use. Also, the extent of the piping will be just to the stock SMIC location. From there, I have a Dave Brode UICP to take it to the throttlebody.

I'll also have to ask about the corrosiveness of the copper as well, to determine whether I should paint it, or leave it as is. Just for the cost-aspect alone (copper material gratis from friend) I'm going to make a go at it. Anything will be a huge improvement over my heatsoaking stocker SMIC!

 

[dsmturboawd]

just make it out of pvc and call it a day. you dont need your plumber to be honest, any monkey can make ic piping.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by Enraged78
The last time I was at the track, I met a guy with an 89 Supra Turbo that had copper intercooler piping. He did it himself, and did manage to find 2.25" piping somewhere. He said it was really easy to work with, and he had no corrosion problems yet. He'd been running the piping for about six months, and it was painted with engine paint to help keep it from corroding. Jim is correct, though, as the elbows he used for the bends in the system were a fair restriction. The elbows themselves were much larger than the piping, and they were 2.25" internally, but externally, they were about 1/6" larger than the piping itself. They also looked like they were cast, for some reason. I think that polishing the inside of the elbows would probably smooth things out quite a bit. Anyway, if you know how to braze copper, you should be all set for a cheap UICP solution.

Incidentally, he ran a 12.90 with his setup.

Oh, and one other thing from thermodynamic theory. Aluminum likes to dissipate heat. Copper likes to absorb it. This is why you see copper slugs surrounded by aluminum in many modern CPU heatsinks. Aluminum would definately make a better UICP.

Matt.

Wouldn't that mean that once your IC piping reached to 200 degree temp of your engine bay, the aluminum would transfer it far faster to the colder air in your IC pipe? Copper is a better insulator, IE, less heat exchange.

 

[JCG-GSX]

Ok,

Lets keep the conversation friendly and productive. I have reached the point in my modification level that detonation has to be quelled. I know its not listed, but I have a decent mod list to support a big 16G. My car is modded towards being a good all around car for road-racing, drag, street etc, and especially trying to pass CA Smog (gonna need some luck on that one) I can make one or two hard runs right now before the intercooler gets heatsoaked, then detonation rears its ugly head, and just gets uglier. If I run race gas, these problems go away, but its not exactly feasible to run that all the time.

I have an RX-7TT fuel pump, 550s, and a Steve-tekesque inline AN-6 fuel line from before the filter to the fuel rail. I don't want to go larger because I doubt I'd be able to even get close to passing smog with any larger injectors.

I'm pretty sure its the intercooler that's holding me up. Thats why its going in. I could rig up something myself, but not nearly as professionally as my friend can do it, same reason why I'd have an exhaust shop do the piping. Like I said though, free is good.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Cleaned up some crap.

Keep it civil.

 

[leet]

Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
Wouldn't that mean that once your IC piping reached to 200 degree temp of your engine bay, the aluminum would transfer it far faster to the colder air in your IC pipe? Copper is a better insulator, IE, less heat exchange.

Copper is quicker to both absorb and dispel heat.

However, in this application, I think the only problem would be the weight. Considering a cubic inch of aluminum weighs .0978 pounds, and the same volume of copper weighs .3230 pounds.

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by Enraged78
The elbows themselves were much larger than the piping, and they were 2.25" internally, but externally, they were about 1/6" larger than the piping itself.

Yeah, I don't think they make them from swaged tubing once they get that big.

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by Enraged78
Oh, and one other thing from thermodynamic theory. Aluminum likes to dissipate heat. Copper likes to absorb it. This is why you see copper slugs surrounded by aluminum in many modern CPU heatsinks. Aluminum would definately make a better UICP.

That's some thermodynamics you got there. Heat flows to cold. It doesn't care what the material is, other than how fast it can make the trip through it. The "aluminum dissipates" and "copper absorbs" is gibberish.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by leet
Copper is quicker to both absorb and dispel heat.

However, in this application, I think the only problem would be the weight. Considering a cubic inch of aluminum weighs .0978 pounds, and the same volume of copper weighs .3230 pounds.

Cool, I was more trying to point out the guys horrible inconsistincies in logic then make my own point.

Heavy, whats steel weigh?

 

[leet]

One cubic inch of Carbon Steel weighs .2830 lbs.

 

[greyforestgst]

Originally posted by dsmturboawd
just make it out of pvc and call it a day. you dont need your plumber to be honest, any monkey can make ic piping.

yay chlorine gas is fun to shoot out of exhaust!

guys if you're going to make ic piping go and get the premade mandrel bends and silicone couplers...its not that expensive really.

 

[dsmturboawd]

i dont know about fun, but ok.

truth is, hundreds of people use pvc ic piping with zero ill effects every day. i ran pvc for ic piping over a year and the car ran fine.

i dont understand what youre implying here.

 

[greyforestgst]

Originally posted by dsmturboawd
i dont know about fun, but ok.

truth is, hundreds of people use pvc ic piping with zero ill effects every day. i ran pvc for ic piping over a year and the car ran fine.

i dont understand what youre implying here.

Originally posted http://www.psrc.usm.edu/macrog/pvc.htm
When you try to burn PVC, chlorine atoms are released, and chlorine atoms inhibit combustion.

 

[STECARS]

sometimes its nice to be unique.......... that said
1 the copper you can get for free and it gets the job done ,
2 so it may weight in your application 1lbs or 2lbs more than steel, but its free
3 Also I think some copper intercooler pipes will look badass if polished.
You just gave me a really good idea, maybe I'll do my upper radiator hose in polished copper. Anyhow good luck, and if you go with the copper , post some pics.
Oh and also about the heat transfer and copper and aluminum and all that.
The majority of the copper you said was to run from fmic to smic so its in the front of your car constantly getting cold air just like the fmic, so i wouldnt sweat it.

 

[dsmturboawd]

noone's burning pvc. when i took off my pvc, there wasnt the slightest bit of burn marks, warping, etc.

 

[JCG-GSX]

Almost done with my project. I just have to fix a boost leak from the turbo outlet and reassemble. I am pretty impressed with it. It was lighter than the steel exhaust piping that I was going to use, and it only took a few hours to fabricate with my friends help. I figure that I must have had boost leaks before, so after I track them down and with the addition of the FMIC, she should be a beast!


As promised...pics

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[JiveMasterT]

where did you get / make those couplers? i need one of those to finish my hard pipe setup. thanks.