Upgrading to Evo III 16G - Have a couple questions...

[98eclipsegst181]

I've done a bunch of research and have a baseline of what I want to do, but I have a couple of questions.

I am going to upgrade to an Evo III 16g this X-mas and along with the turbo I am going to purchase:

660 injectors
SAFC-2
Walbro 190 Fuel Pump

My car is a 95 Talon TSi AWD and it already has a FMIC, boost controller, 3 inch exhaust with high flow cat, Greddy Type S bov, and a few other small mods.

1.) Is there anything else I should look into buying to go along with this setup? This is going to be a daily driver but I want to be able to hit at least low 13s in the quarter eventually on the Evo 16g.

2.) When I buy my turbo there is an option to have it ported and with a larger flapper. What are the benefits to doing this? Are there any benefits to going unported with the normal sized flapper? The cost is not an issue. I plan to hit around 350 hp soon, so give me some suggestions.

Thanks alot guys!!

 

[Grimis]

sounds like a good list. Porting is a way to decress the disturbance in the air, and the flapper helps to stop boost creep with bigger downpipes and such from what im told, other then that, get the safc tuned and your goal is just around the corner, good luck

 

[exile]

I'm about to get a 16g also, like.. in a few weeks and I've compiled a list from a couple weeks of research that would allow a 16g to run at a decent PSI (above 15). I am starting straight from stock.

I found that I would need:
1. 16g Turbo (www.turbochargers.com has a really good ass deal) w/ kit.
2. Walbro 255lph (190lph would do fine)
3. 650cc's
4. SAFC-2
5. Pocket Logger
6. Fuel Pressure Regulator

and then the stuff to make sure I can run it higher than 15psi:
7. Exhaust
8. o2 Housing
9. Manifold
10. Intake
11. FMIC

Is there anything I'm forgetting?

 

[CanadianTSi]

Add a FMIC and you should be set.

 

[layla]

you should read this before you buy your turbo from turbochargers.com, i bought my evo 16g from slowboy and its incredible, i recomend the porting, i didnt get the larger flapper and i dont have a problem but im sure that it wouldnt hurt. BTW the evo 16g is mindblowing.

http://www.slowboyracing.com/evo3vsgt.htm

 

[fwdturbobov1996]

I'm about to get a 16g also, like.. in a few weeks and I've compiled a list from a couple weeks of research that would allow a 16g to run at a decent PSI (above 15). I am starting straight from stock.

I found that I would need:
1. 16g Turbo (www.turbochargers.com has a really good ass deal) w/ kit.
2. Walbro 255lph (190lph would do fine)
3. 650cc's
4. SAFC-2
5. Pocket Logger
6. Fuel Pressure Regulator

and then the stuff to make sure I can run it higher than 15psi:
7. Exhaust
8. o2 Housing
9. Manifold
10. Intake
11. FMIC

Is there anything I'm forgetting?

If your going that route and your ecu is eprom. Ill trade you ecu's and pay for shipping on both of them. Link works wonders compared to safc/pocketlogger imo. Easier to use.

 

[exile]

you should read this before you buy your turbo from turbochargers.com, i bought my evo 16g from slowboy and its incredible, i recomend the porting, i didnt get the larger flapper and i dont have a problem but im sure that it wouldnt hurt. BTW the evo 16g is mindblowing.

http://www.slowboyracing.com/evo3vsgt.htm

The reason I chose Turbochargers.com as a creditable place to buy a turbo from is because they made the Franks and I know a few people that have those turbos and they work great. Plus, it's the cheapest place around, if I were to get one from a company that I KNEW was really good I would get a Forced Performance evo16g, I think the turbo + install on their site is $714.

If your going that route and your ecu is eprom. Ill trade you ecu's and pay for shipping on both of them. Link works wonders compared to safc/pocketlogger imo. Easier to use.

The more and more I think about it, yeah I should get DSMLink. If I got the pocketlogger and safc from the classifieds I could afford injectors too for the same price as DSMLink.

 

[v01dy]

you should read this before you buy your turbo from turbochargers.com, i bought my evo 16g from slowboy and its incredible, i recomend the porting, i didnt get the larger flapper and i dont have a problem but im sure that it wouldnt hurt. BTW the evo 16g is mindblowing.

http://www.slowboyracing.com/evo3vsgt.htm

They carry MHI Evo3 16Gs at 459 now. They carry the Evo3 GT at the same price ported with 34mm wastegate. MHI Evo3s should be the same no matter who you buy from right?

 

[racinmasonc]

evo3 gt is NOT the same!!! evo3 16G is by far better! also i got mine from machv.com and haven't had a problem yet! also got the "Monster Turbine Housing" from there also! incredible!

have fun with the evo3 16G!!!!

 

[exile]

Yeah fellas, please do not confuse what I meant, I'm talking about turbochargers.com's EVO III 16g, they seem to advertise the GT in huge font and all kind of pretty stuff (cuz they want it out of their stock room) but yeah, don't turn this thread into a 'differences between gt and evo' because the mod's don't like that.

Back on topic, any of those sites, (FP, SB, MachV) I'm sure all sell great turbos. I'll tell you how Turbochargers.com's Evo III 16g works when I buy one, but I gaurentee it'll be just fine. But if I'm wrong.. it won't be the first time.

 

[spyderturbo007]

I would trade in that 190lph FP for a 255HP and an AFPR. The 190 is only good for about 38 lbs/min of airflow, which is below the max flow of the EVO III 16g. The EVO III 16g is capable of pushing around 44 lbs/min, so as you can see, if you ever decide to max out the turbo you will run out of fuel.

Also, bag the enlarged wastegate flapper. Remember that:

Force = Pressure * Area

So by increasing the area of the wastegate flapper, you are also increasing the force applied. This can lead to blowing open the wastegate, which sucks.

 

[siceclipse]

i agree with above, don't get the enlarged flapper.
I'm also inclined to suggest not getting it ported either. Its already a fast spooling turbo (cause its still relatively small) and I'm sure you don't wanna bother with having to port the rest of the wastegate passage yourself to cure any creep problems in the future.
ShapeGSX has a EvoIII 16G unmolested and loves it. check his profile out and ask about his turbo setup.

 

[91gsxboosted]

I've done a bunch of research and have a baseline of what I want to do, but I have a couple of questions.

I am going to upgrade to an Evo III 16g this X-mas and along with the turbo I am going to purchase:

660 injectors
SAFC-2
Walbro 190 Fuel Pump

My car is a 95 Talon TSi AWD and it already has a FMIC, boost controller, 3 inch exhaust with high flow cat, Greddy Type S bov, and a few other small mods.

1.) Is there anything else I should look into buying to go along with this setup? This is going to be a daily driver but I want to be able to hit at least low 13s in the quarter eventually on the Evo 16g.

2.) When I buy my turbo there is an option to have it ported and with a larger flapper. What are the benefits to doing this? Are there any benefits to going unported with the normal sized flapper? The cost is not an issue. I plan to hit around 350 hp soon, so give me some suggestions.


Thanks alot guys!!

I would have the extras done, but another thing you should think about is getting a 3 inch GM mass air flow, and get the mass air flow translator. You can do basic tuning from this, and half the battle is tuning it right.
-joey

 

[Slippi84]

Just out of curiousity why go with the evo 16g and not a 50 trim you not into draging. Because if you like racing even like 4 times a month you will like a 50 trim better. Most guys on here buy 16g's and then want to uprgrade shortly after. I mean if there is some reason like auto cross driving or if you were super anal about lag then i understand but i don't see the point in getting anything smaller than a 20g or 50 trim for strip/street

 

[PieEyedPiper]

The mods also don't like it when people pull things out their asses. Prove the MHI EvoIII is "far better". I recently read an article in defense of the EvoIII GT and I'm not so convinced it is so inferior. Please provide facts for your basis that accusation

evo3 gt is NOT the same!!! evo3 16G is by far better! also i got mine from machv.com and haven't had a problem yet! also got the "Monster Turbine Housing" from there also! incredible!

have fun with the evo3 16G!!!!

 

[98eclipsegst181]

i appreciate the suggestions guys. so what's the verdict? ported or not ported?

i am going to be doing both 1/4 mile and autocrossing and wanted to get the Evo III 16g for quicker spool but still good power. I'm not looking to run any better than 12s.

 

[GPLaserRS]

The mods also don't like it when people pull things out their asses. Prove the MHI EvoIII is "far better". I recently read an article in defense of the EvoIII GT and I'm not so convinced it is so inferior. Please provide facts for your basis that accusation

I was wondering where you read that article, could you post a link where you found it. I've always heard that the Evo GT doesn't hold boost like the MHI EVO 16G. I'm interested in getting a Evo 16g and would love to read the article.

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

Yeah, I too just purchased an EVO III 16g turbo... My 14b was puking oil all over the place, so I tried to replace it with a new cartridge which had other issues, such as back and forth shaft play, but did not leak oil the way the original had done. I got the turbo because it was $484 with shipping, I need my car, and this is the best deal I could find. I wanted a 20g, but timing is everything. I hope I will be happy with this turbo. Any PMs about this turbo and how well it hauls azz will be appreciated...

 

[tstkl]

porting a turbo allows for more top end, but slows spool, if your looking to do some dragging i would port

same with clipping, which isnt as common a practice, and i dont suggest it,...

a larger flapper will help prevent boost creep, which is boost being affected by the engine basically producing so much exhaust gases that the stock smaller flapper cannot reroute enough gases to prevent the turbo shaft from increasing in rpm due to a larger amount of gas passing the turbine wheel....and i dont think that the exhaust gases can blow open the flapper, because it would seem to me that exhaust gases would fill the o2 housing, and an equal pressure would be exerted on the back side of the flapper, unless the rate of change of the pressure of the exhaust gases excedded the pressure the wastegate is set to....

if i were to get a mhi evo3 16g (im looking into 50 or 57 ball bearing trims from sbr as of this point) i would get the 34mm flapper and have the turbine housing ported... but thats just me...

 

[Grimis]

porting a turbo allows for more top end, but slows spool, if your looking to do some dragging i would port

same with clipping, which isnt as common a practice, and i dont suggest it,...

a larger flapper will help prevent boost creep, which is boost being affected by the engine basically producing so much exhaust gases that the stock smaller flapper cannot reroute enough gases to prevent the turbo shaft from increasing in rpm due to a larger amount of gas passing the turbine wheel....and i dont think that the exhaust gases can blow open the flapper, because it would seem to me that exhaust gases would fill the o2 housing, and an equal pressure would be exerted on the back side of the flapper, unless the rate of change of the pressure of the exhaust gases excedded the pressure the wastegate is set to....

if i were to get a mhi evo3 16g (im looking into 50 or 57 ball bearing trims from sbr as of this point) i would get the 34mm flapper and have the turbine housing ported... but thats just me...

well said, Thats what my Evo3 16g had, inlet ported and the 34mm flapper. Im looking into sbr's 50 and pte's 50 trim as well.

 

[97ClipseDSM]

I've done a bunch of research and have a baseline of what I want to do, but I have a couple of questions.

I am going to upgrade to an Evo III 16g this X-mas and along with the turbo I am going to purchase:

660 injectors
SAFC-2
Walbro 190 Fuel Pump

My car is a 95 Talon TSi AWD and it already has a FMIC, boost controller, 3 inch exhaust with high flow cat, Greddy Type S bov, and a few other small mods.

1.) Is there anything else I should look into buying to go along with this setup? This is going to be a daily driver but I want to be able to hit at least low 13s in the quarter eventually on the Evo 16g.

2.) When I buy my turbo there is an option to have it ported and with a larger flapper. What are the benefits to doing this? Are there any benefits to going unported with the normal sized flapper? The cost is not an issue. I plan to hit around 350 hp soon, so give me some suggestions.

Thanks alot guys!!

Everything looks good so far. Although i do recommend to buy your turbo from extreme psi. I bought mine for $715 (includes 2G install kit) shipped. They even lowered there price now to $539 (at the time it was $569). Plus you cant go wrong with shipping (arrives within 48 hours at my door for me). They also have a DSM Fuel management kit that runs $599, your choice of injectors, walbro 190 or 255 fuel pump, and your choice of black or blue SAFC II. One last thing, it is ok to run 190 Fuel pump. I was originally going to go with walbro 255 fuel pump however i settled for a 190. I would go with that if u arent planning on running an AFPR anytime soon. The 255 fuel pump cannot be used without an AFPR. The 190 fuel pump also made tuning a little easy for me. However if your thinking long term goals....than by no means go with a 255. Sometimes doing the job right the first time is for the better. Have fun..and happy boosting.

 

[spoolin_upTSi]

this is the thread starter speaking.

I've given it alot of thought and think I've come to a decision. I have a set of 660 Denso Injectors and an SAFC2 in-hand ready to go. Once I save up some more I am going to purchase:

Evo III 16g Ported and with Enlarged Flapper + install kit from extremepsi
Walbro 190lph fuel pump
Some type of logger (any suggestions?)


So does that sound like a good setup? After the mods my modlist will be as follows:

Evo III 16g
660 denso injectors
3-inch turboback exhaust with high-flow cat
FMIC
Hard Upper IC Piping
Greddy Type S bov
MBC set to 15 psi
Walbro 190lph Fuel Pump
SAFC-2
Blitz BLM Boost Gauge
(Logging device)

Sound like a good list? Will this be sufficient to meeting my 350hp goal (or at least close to that)? Is there anything else I should look into buying? I appreciate all the help.

 

[RedTalonTsi]

Yes, I would suggest you start thinking about an aftermarket clutch. If you are getting the horsepower you should from your projected mod list the stock clutch won't handle it for long. When you upgrade your clutch you might as well get a lightened flywheel of some kind too. I'm not making any recommendations personally (everyone seems to have a different opinion on clutch/flywheel combo's) just reminding you to think about it.
Later,
Dana

 

[98eclipsegst181]

oops forgot to mention- i do have an aftermarket clutch its an ACT either a 2100 or 2600, came with the car i forget which it is.

 

[97ClipseDSM]

this is the thread starter speaking.

I've given it alot of thought and think I've come to a decision. I have a set of 660 Denso Injectors and an SAFC2 in-hand ready to go. Once I save up some more I am going to purchase:

Evo III 16g Ported and with Enlarged Flapper + install kit from extremepsi
Walbro 190lph fuel pump
Some type of logger (any suggestions?)


So does that sound like a good setup? After the mods my modlist will be as follows:

Evo III 16g
660 denso injectors
3-inch turboback exhaust with high-flow cat
FMIC
Hard Upper IC Piping
Greddy Type S bov
MBC set to 15 psi
Walbro 190lph Fuel Pump
SAFC-2
Blitz BLM Boost Gauge
(Logging device)

Sound like a good list? Will this be sufficient to meeting my 350hp goal (or at least close to that)? Is there anything else I should look into buying? I appreciate all the help.

That looks like a very good setup. Yes all this will bring you closer to your 350 whp goal..i cant say exactly how much but with proper tuning & depending on how much boost you run, you should be in the 300whp range. I would buy an EGT gauge if you have some money laying around. While some people may not see a necessary in an EGT (exhaust gas temperature) gauge, it always helps while your tuning without a wideband..always lets you know when to step off once the EGT's sky rocket.