Upgraded Fuel Lines?

[DSMKevan]

http://www.stevetek.com/R-FuelSys.html
Has anyone tried this? It seems like a good alternative (or additive) to an upgraded fuel pump. The guy who wrote that runs 660cc injectors, with a stock pump, after he upgraded the fuel lines like on that site.

Is this even necessary? Im going to get a 2.4L installed along with a larger turbo and lots of other mods, would I even need to do this if I already upgraded the fuel pump and rewired it?

 

[NOSNUSE]

I would think that removing the restrictive points in the system would help along with an upgraded fuel pump. i am in the process of installing a fuel cell in my car and will have to replace the entire fuel system so I may follow this diagram, but using common sense will tell you that more fuel that is availible to the motor the better your chances of keep knock at bay and giving yourself a little bit of leway in terms on tuning.

 

[DarthBulk]

I too am putting a 2.4L in my Talon, with a FP3052, and I plan on doing something similar to this fuel line upgrade. Mine will be a little different, though, because I am putting an inline fuel pump in there, instead of the in-tank pump. I still have to figure out how I'm going to do that But I personally think that the vfaq you mentioned is a very good idea, even though I don't have the data to back it up yet. I completely read the vfaq, though, and I can't find any reason not to do it.

 

[talonted_one]

I too am putting a 2.4L in my Talon, with a FP3052, and I plan on doing something similar to this fuel line upgrade. Mine will be a little different, though, because I am putting an inline fuel pump in there, instead of the in-tank pump. I still have to figure out how I'm going to do that But I personally think that the vfaq you mentioned is a very good idea, even though I don't have the data to back it up yet. I completely read the vfaq, though, and I can't find any reason not to do it.

There is a debate on if you need to upgrade your fuel lines. There is a member of this board that has made a 10 sec pass on stock fuel lines. So take it how you like. I personally redid my lines to accomodate my inline fuel pump. In retrospect I think I shouldhave tried a supra pump instead.

 

[DarthBulk]

There is a debate on if you need to upgrade your fuel lines. There is a member of this board that has made a 10 sec pass on stock fuel lines. So take it how you like. I personally redid my lines to accomodate my inline fuel pump. In retrospect I think I shouldhave tried a supra pump instead.

I am not trying to hijack this thread, but I have a question for you...it might be useful to the original poster too. He might find a need for a bigger fuel pump depending on the turbo he chooses. Can you give some details about your inline pump install, and experience with it? Did you modify your tank by removing the in-tank pump? Why would you prefer the Supra pump? Just curious, as I will be doing this in the next couple of weeks...

 

[dave99gst]

i got new lines mostly because it was easyer then trying to remove+replace my pita stock fuel filter. ! its defenatly nothing new.

 

[Big Red AWD]

The inside diameter of the fuel rail is roughly -8AN(if the interior taper is drilled out) and there are more fuel filters to choose from at the larger size. This would provide a nonrestrictive path for the fuel from the tank to the regulator. However, the hole on the stock fuel pump housing is only so large and can get only so much fuel through it. Would any increase in the size of the fuel line after this point be futile? If the fuel has to change diameters inside the line it will produce turbulence. How much will this affect the efficiency of a fuel system? Ideally, a fuel cell where the size of the fittings can be selected would be best. I really do not want to cut up my spare tire well to get one to fit, or lose my entire trunk space if I lay it on top; so this is not an option. I have a Walbro 255 HP pump, and from my calculations the pump if it is rewired will be sufficient for up to 1000cc injector with a nice safety window if the current to the pump drops unexpectedly at some point if I can get enough fuel out of the housing. I would rather go overkill with the line size if there is an advantage to be had by it. I am pretty sure I am forgetting something. This is probably more then the guy was looking for but If anybody has any comments on what directions would be best, it would be very helpful.

I however really do not put much stock in the statements "if one person does something with a certain part, then that is good enough for everyone else." Granted, this does set a benchmark of the potential of a given part, it however does not set a precedence of what to expect of a given part. Logic and the accomplishments of more then a few people will provide more reliable expectations of a certain part or system. Unfortunately, people operating at the level where many of these parts reach their limits, as expected are not completely forthcoming with information that could provide others trying to reach these levels the best way of doing things that can avoid costly mistakes later. I am really sorry for this little rant, these statements have always bothered me and I have always wanted to make light of this.

Steve

 

[talonted_one]

I am not trying to hijack this thread, but I have a question for you...it might be useful to the original poster too. He might find a need for a bigger fuel pump depending on the turbo he chooses. Can you give some details about your inline pump install, and experience with it? Did you modify your tank by removing the in-tank pump? Why would you prefer the Supra pump? Just curious, as I will be doing this in the next couple of weeks...

Well if you guys really would like to know how I did it I will try to explain it to you as best as I can, at the thread starters request. If anyone else wants to know pm me .I do have pics of the install but I can't upload them to my PC because I cant find my usb cables for my camera.

I would go with a Supra pump because it will give you all the fuel needed for 90% of the members on this forum.

 

[DSMKevan]

Could you please try to explain it?

 

[talonted_one]

Well first and foremost if you dont have any experience with stainless steel fuel lines ...you will need help with it. They are a pain to assemble but the end result I feel is well worth it,

First you will need to Find what size line -6an is a good all around step in the right direction which will be as large enough for 98% of the population.Now you will need to find what fittings you will need to route the fuel line from the fuel rail to the fuel tank. IE a 45* angle from the fuel rail then a straight end fitting into the fuel filter etc. I opted to mount my fuel pump under the car next to the drive shaft( please no comments), where ever you decide to put your pump will be up to you. things to concider would be how loud the pump is, size (my SX is HUGE). Ease of installation should not enter into your decision.


Now on to the hard part....


Like a moron, I decided to keep the car a daily driver. So I didnt want to go throught the pain of cutting out my fuel tank and putting in a fuel cell. A fuel cell would be the easy way to do it because first it has a sump so there will always be fuel going into the pump, and secondly there are fittings already there to accept your new lines. I thought since the stock 2G tank is already plastic I wouldn't get much of a weight reduction so I proceeded to modify the stock pump assembly. This is where pics will come in handy.What I did was cut off the stock fuell feed line and made it as flush as possible. Then I took a hole saw and cut a hole large enough for what is called a bulk head fitting. This fitting will allow you to have a male end on 2 sides of a piece of metal. It is then secured by a teflon washer and a nut on the opposite side. After that mission is complete you can attach a straight end fitting and a length of line down into your tank to pull fuel out.



Be warned that this is not cheaper than buying a fuel pump. The Fuel line needed can get very costly, and the fittings can possibly be even more costly.

If you have any questions please feel free to let me know, and I will try to explain things in a little more detail.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

i got new lines mostly because it was easyer then trying to remove+replace my pita stock fuel filter. ! its defenatly nothing new.

Wow. Spend a little time replacing a $25 fuel filter, or spending $400 on new fuel lines/fittings/AFPR. Tough choice there

 

[joeracer321]

Yeah you could do a 10 sec. pass on stock lines, and then you could blow your motor up too. :thumbdown. There is no way that the stock line, and banjo fittings could support much more horsepower than stock. Plus the stock fuel filter flows under 1.5 LPM.

In my set up I had a new 3/8" tube brazed on to my fuel pump housing with a -6 an fitting on there. And I am running new -6 line all the way to the engine compartment. Then through an earls fuel filter, then into a -6 fuel rail adapter.

For the outlet I have another rail adapter, to an aeromotive FPR, then for the outlet I have a -6 to -4 for the return line.

I just did not feel comfortable using the stock fuel lines, the banjo fitting out of the top of the fuel filter is microscopic, and you are lucky if you get the hole in the fitting lined up directly with the hole in the fuel line.... that is just a junk set up.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Yeah you could do a 10 sec. pass on stock lines, and then you could blow your motor up too. :thumbdown. There is no way that the stock line, and banjo fittings could support much more horsepower than stock. Plus the stock fuel filter flows under 1.5 LPM.

In my set up I had a new 3/8" tube brazed on to my fuel pump housing with a -6 an fitting on there. And I am running new -6 line all the way to the engine compartment. Then through an earls fuel filter, then into a -6 fuel rail adapter.

For the outlet I have another rail adapter, to an aeromotive FPR, then for the outlet I have a -6 to -4 for the return line.

You can defintely run 10's all day long with stock fuel setup. i've gone 11.5 on pump gas on stock lines, stock fuel filter, etc. i personally know a guy in MD, running lo 10's on a 2.4L stroker, PT67, and he's still using the stock lines. So, unless the person is a total retard, stock lines/filter can easily make 550whp without ANY detrmental affect to the engine.

 

[4geze63]

I have -6an lines to and from the tank with edelbrock FF and aeromotive fpr, Ill get some pics in the morning.

 

[psychlow]

The stock lines really aren't the restriction.

The banjo bolt for the fuel filter IS really the restriction.

If you look at the banjo bolt, you're necking the fuel line down to the size of a safety pin (exaggeration, but you get the point).

Getting rid of that stock fuel filter, one way or another, will VASTLY increase the amount of fuel that enters the engine at a given PSI.

I can vouch for this from personal experience, and experience of others that have done the same. I had to lean out my AFC settings when I ditched the stock fuel filter/banjo setup because the engine was getting that much more fuel at the same pressure.

 

[joeracer321]

I understand that the filter/banjo bolt is probably the biggest restriction, and probably with a 255 pump, injectors, and a regulator. Getting rid of that stock filter and bolt would probably be fine for an 16g. But I am sure that with my 2.4L stroker t3/t4 turbo, 780cc injectors, that the stock line that is less than 1/4" would not cut it. If you are already eliminating the fuel filter, and buying all those fittings, what is two more fittings and 25 bucks worth of line to have the capability to go bigger later and you are already more than half there. I just happen to take it one step further than that and change the whole pressure line that comes out of the pump. But only because the fitting was SOOOO tight that it crimped when I broke it lose. I am very pleased my fuel system now and I know it will handle anything that I throw at it. If anyone wants more specifics, maybe a list of parts I will PM them with it. Maybe I will take some pics as well for those who are interested.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

But I am sure that with my 2.4L stroker t3/t4 turbo, 780cc injectors, that the stock line that is less than 1/4" would not cut it.

Like I said:

40 10.818 132.06 7.180 101.06 1.772 91 Eclipse GSX PT63 NO Harold Horton Buzz's Motorsports

From DSMtimes.org, With a smaller turbo set up, 2.4L stroker, earlier this year. STock fuel system up to the rail. Stock filter, stock line from filter to rail.

Joeracer: just curious. What size t3/t4 and what do you run in the 1/4?

 

[joeracer321]

it is a .50 A/R compressor with a 60 trim wheel and a .55 A/R exhaus housing, with a p-trim turbine.

I am still puting the car together, so there won't be any 1/4 mile times for a while. I am still going to have to break in the motor and experiment with tuning and such.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

I couldnt find any T3 or T4 turbine housing with a .55 a/r. Is the .50 a/r a T04B housing? Or a T04E housing? Where did you get this turbo from? I'm just curious about other people's setups.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

it is a bullseye power T04E compressor housing, the A/R I gave you on the exhuaust is what they told me, they said they couldnt tell me exactly what it was because it was proprietary. He said it was somewhere between a .50 and a .60 so I give the median. It is a completely custom housing, so I am sure that it is not a standard A/R housing like you are used to seeing.

Sounds more like they don't have a damn clue about it. It's certainly not a T3, as those only come in .36, .48, .63, and .82 a/r. you sure it's a T3/T4 and not a regular bolt on housing? What exhaust manifold are you using?